James Cameron Has Written Neytiri And Spider's Relationship Before...

Wheeee another one 👀...

Another fanart for @mochalottie 's fanfic Our Hearts Beat in the Womb this time of chapter 5! (I didn't check whether or not I missed something from the original scene so if there is anything... let's say, I took creative liberties ;p)

I wonder if dragons on Pandora exist.

Not like our dragons here on earth, but I'm talking about a dragon similar to an ikran, but bigger, deadlier, and relies on their talons and teeth instead of breathing fire because they CAN'T breathe fire but can produce a strange blast that can wipe out an entire village except they rarely ever use that blast because they need two days to recharge.

They still lay eggs and are extremely intelligent.

Your Song Cradles Me Close

Fandom: James Cameron Avatar.

A/N: Spider decides to go into a self-imposed exile not out of bitterness but as an act of self-preservation and peace. He removes himself from the cycles of pain and resentment that have plagued him since his birth, choosing instead to live in harmony with Eywa, and in turn, Eywa embraces him as her own. Here is a small collection of vignettes capturing moments of Spider’s peaceful solitude in the wilds of Pandora.

Based on this.

Morning Light

The first rays of sunlight filter through the thick canopy, painting Spider’s skin in soft golds and greens. He stirs in his hammock, the woven fibers swaying gently, rocked by the breeze. His eyes flutter open, adjusting to the soft glow of bioluminescent moss that still clings to the bark of his home. A deep inhale—earth, wood, the smell of peace. He stretches, his body loose and free of tension for the first time in years.

Today, he will forage and give thanks to Eywa.

2. The Hidden Spring

Spider moves through the dense underbrush with practiced ease, silent as a shadow. The whisper of water calls him forward, and soon he stumbles upon something new—a spring, untouched by human or na’vi. The water is so clear he can see his reflection staring back at him, but he does not linger on the cursed image. Instead, he knelt, cupping the cool liquid in his hands before drinking deeply. A gift, he thinks, pressing his palm to the damp earth in thanks to Eywa.

3. A Visitor

“I brought you something,” Kiri announced, stepping into his sanctuary as if she belonged there. And in a way, she does. Spider watches as she pulls several books from her satchel, their covers worn and faded. She settles beside him, their shoulders brushing as she flips through the pages, her fingers smudged with ink and dirt.

Kiri was all that was left of a home that rejected him.

“It’s about old myths from Earth,” she says. “I thought you’d like it.”

He does. He really does.

4. The Storm

The first rumble of thunder rolls through the sky, but Spider is unafraid. He has lived in the forest long enough to understand its rhythms. The wind picks up, mighty branches swaying, the scent of rain thick in the air. He curls up in the hammock inside his tree as the downpour begins, water cascading down in sheets.

But his home remains dry and standing.

A coincidence, he thinks. Then again, maybe not.

5. The Glow

Night falls, and the forest comes alive in a way it never does during the day. Soft glows flicker around him—the tiny insects drifting lazily through the air. Spider reaches out, palm open, and one settles upon his fingers. The blue light pulses, a tiny heartbeat in the darkness. He exhaled slowly, watching the creature lift off, joining the others in their silent dance.

Alone, but never lonely.

6. Footsteps Erased

He hears them before he sees them—the distant sound of feet sinking in the earth, the murmur of voices. Searchers. Omatikaya. Humans. It doesn’t matter. He stays perfectly still, breath shallow as he listens. But then, something strange happens. The wind picks up, the dirt beneath him shifts, and the trail leading to his home vanishes as if it was never there. His footprints, once clear in the damp soil, have also vanished as if they were never there.

The intruders pass by, none the wiser. Spider exhaled softly.

The Great Mother is always watching.

7. Contentment

Lying in his hammock, Spider watches the sky. The stars are unfamiliar yet familiar, tiny pinpricks of light stretching far beyond what he can reach. He is at peace. No whispered insults, no wary glances, no weight of expectations or unspoken resentment pressing against his ribs.

He is no longer the stray.

He is no longer the son of a demon.

He simply is.

8. Promise

One evening, as Kiri reapplied the fading blue stripes to his skin, she murmured, “Everyone is still searching for you. Dad is running himself ragged trying to track you down, and not even Eywa herself will give grandmother a sign. Our siblings grieve, and mom...is quiet."

Ah.

Spider hummed, sliding off his mask and taking a deep breath. Another gift from Eywa. “They can keep looking. I'm not going back."

Kiri studied him for a long moment, then nodded, a small smile on her lips. “I will not tell anyone. I am happy that you are happy.”

Her long arms envelope him in a warm embrace, and Spider closes his eyes.

Happy.

Yes.

He was.

End.

Not so friendly reminder that you CANNOT be an Avatar fan (I’m talking about the movies but it works for atla as well) and be a zionist, or a white supremacist, or a bigot in any way shape or form.

I know most of you people in the fandom are actually white supremacists and absolutely refuse to admit the very clear metaphor of the movies, but whether you like it or not the Na'vi ARE inspired and are supposed to represent real Indigenous peoples of Earth. If you seriously think that “it’s just fiction” and “they’re aliens so concepts of our world don’t apply to them” I beg of you, please turn your brain on and try watching the movies with your eyes actually open.

Even ignoring the obvious white-savior plot of the first movie (another fact you are not ready to discuss nor willing to admit), nothing changes that the Na'vi are real in our world, they simply exist in a different form, and news flash: they’re not white! And if you love the world of Avatar so much, but you refuse to acknowledge the struggles of Indigenous people, the real “Na'vi” of Earth, then you don’t care about or understand the movies in the first place. If you are enraged by the RDA destroying Hometree and slaughtering hundreds of innocent Indigenous Na'vi and their land, but you don’t spare half a thought for the actual existing Indigenous people that are currently facing the same and even far worse issues, and who the Na'vi purposefully parallel, then you have no business being a fan of this franchise.

[Quick note: I know many people believe fandom places should stay “untouched by politics”, and I agree to a certain extent. It is more then right wanting to escape this world, but categorically ignoring real life issues is a privilege. When talking about a franchise like this that has specific themes, it is impossible to never bring up real-world issues, because that’s what the entire message of the movies is rooted in. Art is not separate from real life, and while you should absolutely enjoy your passions with little worry of everything else, maybe sometimes a few thoughts on these topics wouldn’t be bad, even if they only stay in your mind]

If you feel called out, then you should ask yourself why.

Headcanon that as Spider cares little for Jake and Neytiri then he lets on. One day, maybe after the 2nd movie took place, Jake just tells Spider he accepted him as one of his own and pouring out his heart to Spider.

And Spider just hits him with a "Okay, but I have never accepted you or Mrs. Sully." And just states matter of factly that he only cares for the Sully kids because they had never treated Spider like dirt. Maybe when he was little, he wanted a mother or father figure in the couple but he could only be let down so many times before he gives up on them and stop caring for them.

Just Spider tearing Jake a new one as he states that the only ones to matter to him in the Sully family are Neteyam, Lo'ak, Kiri, and Tuk. Mo'at also means a lot to him too. But how both Jake and Neytiri are on a similar level as Quaritch but for different reasons. It didn't hurt Spider when Neytiri cut him and he 100% believes she would have killed him that day, he expected it from her. Spider tells Jake that suddenly opening your heart, or your heart "always" being opened to him will not erase the years of hate and disrespect.

Spider let's it be known that he would never forgive Neytiri and Jake for causing the rift between him and Neteyam, and using their eldest son's people pleasing nature to their own benefit. Neteyam is gone and Spider will never get those years back and he blames Jake and Neytiri for that.

Spider holds little care for the couple and if Spider never saw either of them again he would be fine, it's only the love that Spider has for their children is what keeps him with putting up with their bullshit.

After saying all this, Spider just walks away without looking back, uncaring of a response, let alone an apology. Leaving Jake, who is still as a stone.

I've been thinking it might be Jake who brings up the idea of adopting Spider, but Neytiri flat-out refuses. The whole adoption debacle becomes a major source of conflict between them, on top of the fact that Quaritch is still alive and Spider is now breathing Pandora’s air (if the leaked scripts are correct). Neytiri would see this as a danger to her family, because humans would inevitably come after Spider to unlock the secret behind how he's surviving the toxic atmosphere. That would put her children, and especially Kiri, at risk if it's confirmed she's the reason behind it.

Jake, being Jake, would want to protect Spider. But Neytiri would begin to feel resentful and unheard by her own mate, possibly even going so far as to take matters into her own hands, only for Kiri to stop her. That confrontation would spark a huge family argument that ends with Neytiri having had enough of Jake constantly choosing Spider over her. She either leaves to lead the Ash Na’vi after Varang's defeat or distances herself from Jake and the family until he comes to his senses.

This is all just my personal theory, but honestly, I think it would be better for everyone if Jake didn’t go through with the adoption, or if he does, Spider refuses without even flinching. Jake’s never truly cared before, so why now? Things are way too tense. Neytiri is grieving, traumatized, and not in the right headspace to be asked to accept or care for a child she's hated for most of his life. From her perspective, it would feel like a slap in the face, like Jake is trying to replace Neteyam.

She might even feel betrayed by Kiri for giving Spider the ability to breathe Pandora’s air, especially if she believes Kiri acted without understanding the danger. Grief has a way of tearing open old wounds and making people lash out at those they love the most. Whatever happens, it’s going to get ugly before it gets better. And Jake might face real backlash, both in-universe and from fans of Neytiri, for not respecting Neytiri’s boundaries. I can already smell the “Divorce AU” fanfics now, with Neytiri breaking the mating bond (if that’s even possible) and ending up with some OC beefy Recom or Na’vi warrior. I jest, of course, but you never know.

Personally, I want Spider to grow beyond the Sullys and refuse Jake’s offer to adopt him, not because he’s bitter, but because he finally realizes his worth isn’t defined by whether the Sullys accept him. I want Neytiri to finally have some peace in her life without constantly being forced to swallow her pain for Jake's comfort, and maybe even receive some healing of the mind.

What do you think will happen to Neytiri and Kiri's relationship in Avatar 3?

Zoe Saldana has repeatedly alluded to Neytiri and Jake having some kind of conflict in Avatar 3, and the stuff we heard about in the cinemacon teaser gave us further details. Attendees described a scene of Jake telling Neytiri "we can't live like this, we can't live in hate." From the dialogue and Saldana's hints, it sounds like their conflict will center on Neytiri becoming more and more consumed by anger and vengeance due to her grief over Neteyam while Jake tries to talk her down.

I also believe Spider is going to be a huge point of contention between Neytiri and Jake. In Avatar 2 Neytiri threatened to kill Spider to avenge Neteyam (it wasn't just to save Kiri, it was also partially motivated by revenge, remember she said "a son for a son" not "your son for my daughter") but later Jake embraced Spider while his internal monologue also said "a son for a son," implying that he wants to "take Spider under his wing" as the late Jon landau described their relationship. Clearly, Jake and Neytiri have very incompatible views on how to handle Spider that will only get worse whenever they learn about him saving Quaritch. Plus, there is also a scene from the leaked script where Neytiri and Jake are arguing and Neytiri says "if it's so dangerous, we should just kill him" and Jake freaks out. It's unclear because only a fragment of the script was visible, but it seems very likely they were talking about Spider since the previous page had the infamous leak about Spider, and I can't think of any other characters who would make Neytiri and Jake react so differently.

With all this in mind, how do you think this is going to effect Neytiri's relationship with Kiri? Out of all her kids, Kiri is the most humanoid. If what the old script said was true about Neytiri harboring some "secret shame" about having mixed kids, Kiri would probably be heavily effected by that. Plus, Kiri is the closest with Spider. If Neytiri continues to take out her anger and grief on Spider, Kiri isn't going to be very happy about it.

Me personally, I think Jake and Neytiri are going to try to keep their disagreements, especially ones about Spider, private from the kids to avoid upsetting them, but eventually, Neytiri is going to lash out at Spider for something and it's going to damage her relationship with Kiri. Just like what I predict with Neytiri and Jake, Neytiri and Kiri will go through a rough patch, but ultimately I think James Cameron will give them a happy ending and they'll make up, and since Jake and Kiri seem adamant on keeping Spider around, making up is going to involve Neytiri and Spider reaching some kind of peace with each other.

But that's just my guess, I want to hear what other fans think 🤔

It's craaaazy how opinions on Spider vary so much depending on what site you're on

If Varang and Quaritch end up becoming an inverse of Jake and Neytiri—a brutal, power-hungry couple spreading war and chaos wherever they go—then Spider is in for the most confusing emotional rollercoaster of his life when Varang declares him her son. Quaritch's reaction to this is hilarious. He’s been struggling to figure out his own feelings about Spider, and now Varang just swoops in and takes over? He’d either be baffled, pissed, or maybe even relieved because finally someone is taking the "parenting" burden off his shoulders.

Spider, meanwhile, is just standing there, processing yet another insane twist in his life, wondering if it’s too late to just go back to Hell's Gate and never show his face.