It's Interesting To Me How Harley Genuinely Seems To Believe That He's Doing The Right Thing But Not

It's interesting to me how Harley genuinely seems to believe that he's doing the right thing but not for the right reasons.

(This is more of a ramble than anything so please excuse any mistakes)

He mentions in chapter four that: "The ONLY difference is that what I fight for actually gains humanity something."

You could just attribute this to Harley trying to turn us against Poppy but I do think he actually meant what he was saying.

We know that Harley lacks humility, yet the actual reason he was kicked from the Young Geniuses Program was more because he was only interested in progress for progresses sake. He only cared about whether he could do something, not whether he should.

Elliot mentions himself in the letter removing Sawyer from the program that: "Scientific progress should ALWAYS be to the benefit of humanity," and I actually do think Harley took that part to heart. Only, he still didn't care about humanity in the slightest and probably didn't have a reason to. He just wanted Elliot's approval. Or perhaps he was trying to spite him.

In Harley's eyes the biggest flaw humanity has is mortality. He describes it canonically as an inferno. A flame to be escaped. That was one of the ulterior motives he had when he created the BBI - a way to turn humans into living beings that would never age or grow sick.

He even says himself before he dies in chapter four: "I was the one that paved the golden path," which I'm fairly certain is a reference to the "Golden Path" in Dune; something that also ties into ensuring humanity's survival.

In the Icepick Arg too you can find this message:

It's Interesting To Me How Harley Genuinely Seems To Believe That He's Doing The Right Thing But Not

Here Harley describes himself as being merciful, sparing humans from their inevitable fates and the limitations of their own bodies. However he isn't doing any of it for humanity's sake, only for the recognition, approval, and attention. And because Elliot told him to.

It's Interesting To Me How Harley Genuinely Seems To Believe That He's Doing The Right Thing But Not

He justifies himself here again, fully believing he is in the right and that others will understand in a thousand years, once humanity is "saved" because of an immortality he discovered.

Also consider how Harley's last words are: "You...saved...nobody..."

I think he's talking to us, but also to himself. He's acknowledging that despite his brilliance and achievements, he wasn't the savior he believed he was.

In the end, Harley is such a fascinating character to me because he does believe he's doing the right thing but because he doesn't understand why he needs to do the right thing, he actually ends up hurting people more than he does helping them. Ironically enough, it is exactly what Elliot was afraid of when he removed Harley from the YGP:

"Progress made simply for the sake of progress often winds up hurting us more than it helps."

It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. And despite the fact Harley is an irredeemable, narcissistic psychopath, I think it's tragic that he and so many other people suffered because he fought so hard for a cause he didn't believe in. Not truly.

More Posts from Mari-say and Others

6 months ago

i was thinking about this since i posted earlier about us needing to address the trend of gen z men being pulled into alt-right pipelines might have contributed to the outcome of this election.

i think contrapoints is really smart, and from what i’ve seen, has been way more effective at getting people out of harmful ideological pipelines than i’ve seen from the majority of leftists online who instead berate and drive a greater wedge of antipathy (though i understand why! and it can be very hard to have empathy for the people who see you as a threat). that antipathy makes the right more radicalized because they don’t feel like they can talk about anything without the “crazy lefties” who won’t even engage with them. where did these issues come from?

what i’ve noticed, and i’m even guilty of this, is that people don’t interact with groups of people whom they refuse talk to, which makes realities more hypothetical in the minds of their opponent since they aren’t open to seeing reality from their perspective. this is true on both sides. from what i’ve observed, it seems to originate from hypothetical perception of the opponent, but when people treat those perceptions as though they are real, it becomes real with their actions, which then makes the antipathy justified to someone. again, on both sides.

what makes contrapoints so successful at breaking this down is that is that she creates these socratic dialogue skits that represent real people and ideologies, has a sense of humor, isn’t afraid to discuss these things, reframes how we see these things by introducing nuance to both sides. she’s a leftist, but she also knows how to engage without ripening division, of meeting someone halfway and being completely humble about it. she is able to soften extremes.

she is able to get into the mind of people who aren’t aligned with her views, understand the nuance and rationales from a realistic perspective, breaking down a big block of “this is all bad” into “ok, some of this makes sense…”, what this does is create a space for self-reflection that doesn’t feel ham-fisted (which could otherwise cause people to double down on their beliefs instead of opening up to other perspectives outside of their bubble). while also being entertaining and well-produced on top of it.

what she is doing is creating these scenarios and socratic discussions that SHOULD be happening in real life but aren’t in this polarized social climate.

I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being
I Was Thinking About This Since I Posted Earlier About Us Needing To Address The Trend Of Gen Z Men Being

i graduated from new college of florida this spring, the small liberal arts college that was in headlines across the country for ron desantis’s board of trustees hostile takeover and exodus of professors.

new students and student athletes from conservative walks of life were being basically incentivized to go there who were taught to fear the lgbt boogeyman growing up in their conservative communities. but once they actually interacted with lgbt students there, many of them they felt like they understood them, and they weren’t as bad as they were told they would be. new college of florida was also famous for getting derek black (child of the man who created stormfront, and godchild of the kkk grand wizard david duke) out of white nationalism. their peers at NCF called them out but also interacted with them, invited them to dinner. black wrote a book about it.

now of course some people are too far gone and you shouldn’t waste your time with them, like derek’s family for example. but i also think a lot of people who voted for trump are not informed, are operating off of emotion and knee-jerk mentality because it’s easier than thinking, and they are not seeing the discussions that need to be had to change their mind because fuckin…nobody is doing them.

and we feel this visceral disgust to people of the opposing party because of its associations. i just want to know how it happened and how we got to be like this. i think social media is partly to blame and also the algorithms that take people down dangerous pipelines and sharpen them, insulate them.

i myself understand the vitriol you might have for anyone that voted for trump. i feel so disappointed that half the people of this country voted against our collective benefit. and i’ve seen a lot of sentiment from the left today saying “every single person who voted for trump is dead to me. i disowned you”.

you can see the reality of trump’s demagoguery, and it’s so obvious, but what i want to know is: what do they see? why did they vote for him? emotion and entertainment travel faster and have more reach than reason. and it’s that’s why i think contrapoints’s videos are exemplary at tackling this ideological divide. this is something i’ve been thinking about for months before today and i thought now was a better time than ever to give my two cents on it.

3 months ago

Aw he’s shy

3 months ago

I don't even understand where this argument came from, because what did people watch the series with? Blitzø is the best of the three, he's obviously an amazing father, I wish everyone had such caring fathers. Stolas is also a good father, although with all his life problems and everything that happened in the series, I can 100% understand why Octavia thinks that Stolas might leave her, it's a difficult situation. Lucifer is the last one, but I would never call him a "bad father", yes, he is not the best, yes, he is too withdrawn and thought that Charlie doesn't need him that much and only called sometimes so as not to "bother", thereby spoiling their relationship and causing many years of distance (although this is also related to his mental health, because apparently Lilith had to take Charlie away from him for some reason), although we know that Charlie also didn't really call because of her doubts caused by many years of distance. But with all that, it's still very clear that he dotes on Charlie, she's his whole world and Charlie also craves her father's love and approval. Lucifer isn't a perfect father, but he tries, especially since he's now much more supportive of Charlie's stance on sinners, I think their relationship will start to heal in Season 2.

I never had a father, so I think it's understandable how I feel about it. I love seeing caring fathers 🥺

I know that probably not many people will share this opinion but i am kind of afraid that Lucifer will live in the hotel and become part of the main cast

I Know That Probably Not Many People Will Share This Opinion But I Am Kind Of Afraid That Lucifer Will

It is not because i dislike him or anything but i fear that him staying in hotel will only cause that he overshadows other characters especially female characters like Charlie

Like he only was in two episodes but the fandoms already acts sometimes like he is the main character. I like Charlie, she is one of my favorite characters but I feel like she get both in the show and fandom shoved in the background for often male characters like Alastor and i don't want her to become a secondary character in her own show

I want Charlie to be the one who takes the lead and fights for her hotel without complety depending on her father, i already wasn't the biggest fan of Lucifer appearing out of nowhere in the final to save Charlie from Adam despite it making I guess technically sense.

Charlie is already unterrated in her own show more than enough and I fear Lucifer living in the hotel will make it even worse. I just hope he will stay more on the side lines and support Charlie without it becoming his hotel


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2 months ago

Firefighter demonstrates how to put out a kitchen fire

6 months ago
On My Last Witch Hat Atelier Fanart, Someone Commented Saying The Swirling Design Reminded Them Of Van

On my last Witch Hat Atelier fanart, someone commented saying the swirling design reminded them of Van Gogh's Starry Night, so I thought, why not go all out for the look?

I spent some time updating my Paint Tool SAI to the latest version and created some new Impressionist brushes. I'm super happy with these new brushes and look forward to painting lots of landscapes and skies with them~

The full hours long video recording, PSD File, and HD image will be DMed on Patreon.com/Yuumei on Dec 5th!

7 months ago

TF One Worldbuilding Bits That Make Me Lose My Mind

The constant "Transforming" of the very planet itself, and the Cybertronians' culture somewhat revolving around having to work with their topography constantly changing and moving.

The premise that the energon of Cybertron does not flow if the "true ruler" is not present.

"He who so findeth this Matrix of Leadership is rightwise king, born of Cybertron..." Optimus is literally King Arthur, and Alpha Trion is Merlin

What little we see of the "Organic" aspect of the planet- the "Deer," the grass, the moss, the evidence that not all of Cybertron is just shiny metal.

The evidence of the ruined buildings up on the surface, indicating that life up on the surface and solid, permanent structures were once possible and they're not doomed to live underground.

The fact that the buildings of Iacon seem almost like upside-down skyscrapers hanging from the ceiling, which indicates either they were built this way, like stalactites of a cave, or perhaps were topside at one time and then the planet folded the entire city into its underground to hide it from danger.

Roads and tracks that form in front of the transports and fade out behind them rather than being present all the time so the air is open for flight-capable bots, which seem to be in abundance.

The height difference between the cog-less bots and those with cogs- it's like Sentinel trapped them in prepubescence and wouldn't let them get their high-school growth spurts.

The Art-Deco inspired designs of Iacon

2 months ago

Being a mom and an anarchist and trying to figure out the whole “parenting” song and dance from that perspective makes me think 8-year-olds have about got it figured out. I hate school. I hate tests. I hate bedtime.

2 months ago

This is such an amazing and phenomenal analysis that I am simply speechless...

Thank you so much for this, it's a shame I found it so late but I just want to say I love the way you think 😭❤️

Also...Soldier Prototype! You're literally the only person I've ever seen, besides me, who thought that Prototype might have a soldier background XD

Absolutely obsessed with the ecosystem and interpersonal political implications going on in Poppy Playtime right now, like.

What we have in the Playtime Co factory is a society made up of creatures who were all, at one point, human. And while it's stated that the experiments have varying levels of intelligence and ability to recall their former lives, we know that a lot of them, if not all of them, retained at least some of their humanity post-transformation. For example:

Most of the experiments are angry, resentful and vengeful towards Playtime Co - they understand they have been wronged, and they are capable of holding grudges.

Poppy and the Prototype seem to have the same end goals (putting a stop to the experiments and saving the innocents being used in them), but diametrically opposing views on how to go about achieving them (the Prototype is a gritty realist who knows no war was ever won without bloodshed and is willing to cause collateral damage in the name of his cause, where Poppy is far more idealistic, moderate and morally opposed to/upset by the deaths of the Playtime Co employees). This dispute has escalated far enough that the Prototype apparently shut Poppy away before the Hour of Joy could begin, and Poppy now wants the Prototype dead for what she sees as a crime equal in atrocity to Playtime Co's - they are able to understand ideologies, have ideological disagreements, and strategise against each other.

Huggy Wuggy, who seems to be only slightly more intelligent than a predatory animal, can still write, and uses the ability to try to guide fleeing prey in the wrong direction - that suggests he uses the vents to hunt on a regular basis, and he's clever enough to use basic deception.

On the subject of Huggy Wuggy, when he escapes the facility, his first instinct is to go home.

There are also numerous examples of the experiments being able to form and maintain social bonds, and work together:

Mommy Long-Legs is described as "nurturing" and "motherly" towards the other experiments, as well as the children. She's placed in the Game Station precisely because her desire to protect and care for the children outweighs her hatred for her captors: she won't act aggressively in front of them.

DogDay says that he's "the last of the Smiling Critters", implying that the Playcare originally had a full complement of Bigger Bodies Critters and that they were all able to coexist peacefully.

Kissy Missy and Poppy clearly have a friendship, with Poppy willing to charge into unknown danger to help her friend.

Miss Delight originally calls the other teachers her sisters, and she's horrified and grief-stricken by her own actions when she turns on them.

Miss Delight and CatNap form a non-aggression pact that seems to include some kind of respect for territorial boundaries, as Ollie claims that CatNap usually avoids the school. That's Miss Delight's turf, and he clearly respects her space, even though it technically falls inside his own territory.

The Prototype - who's usually kept in isolation and under surveillance precisely because he's known to be violent - was on multiple occasions set loose in a room with at least CatNap (and potentially other experiments) without bloodshed. He's even confirmed to have patiently tolerated CatNap lowkey imprinting on him and following him around like a duckling.

The Prototype also opts to save Theo Grambell's life, knowing damn well that to do so means sacrificing his shot at freedom. There is no reason for him to do this other than caring for Theo.

Again, DogDay is the last of the Smiling Critters. Despite the fact that there would have been six of them, and one of CatNap. Working together, they should have been able to overpower him easily, and the fact that they couldn't makes me think that either a) there was a big confrontation in which CatNap either arrived with or was able to call out for backup or b) CatNap became an infinitely more capable strategist and picked them off quietly one at a time, using skills he'd have to have learned from someone.

Anyway. My point here: these were originally people, with all the associated moral hangups and emotional messiness, and they retained a lot of their humanity post-transformation. And they were on the same side, to begin with. During the Hour of Joy, they all turn on the workers together.

But after that? The complete breakdown of that unity and those complex social relations into an essentially animal ecosystem, and the psychological impact on the surviving experiments, fascinates me.

By the time the game starts, the experiments have run out of food, and they've begun turning on each other out of desperation. The Bigger Bodies monsters, previously social and cooperative, have been forced into direct competition for food, and as a result they've largely become solitary apex predators with fiercely-defended territories, where they can pick off smaller, weaker experiments at will. There's some evidence of cooperation and coexistence between predators - Bunzo Bunny and the Mini-Huggies survive ten years in Mommy Long-Legs' territory, possibly filling the scavenger niche and surviving off her leftovers, and Miss Delight is tolerated in CatNap's - but the small toys we see scattered bloodily all across the factory (and the small Bunzo we see picked off by CatNap as it tries to cross a room) show that there's a whole category of experiments whose lives would've become all about hiding, and sneaking, and being where the Bigger Bodies critters aren't. The predators, driven to the edge of starvation, have had to surrender a lot of the human values and morals they had before. The prey have essentially become rodents - they're in danger every second they're not safely hidden away somewhere.

And yet!

The way they've reacted to their trauma is still so human.

Like. Take the difference between CatNap and Mommy Long-Legs.

Mommy and CatNap - Marie and Theo - have a very similar start in life. Both were children when they were experimented on and transferred into their mascot bodies. Both were orphans, and both are described as not fitting in or being particularly happy in the Playcare - Marie was bullied, and Theo is described as "odd" and "antisocial with other children".

But post-transformation, it seems Marie was largely left to, essentially, raise herself. We know that she was aggressively hostile towards staff, and gentle and nurturing towards orphans and other experiments, but we have no suggestion that anyone was caring or parental towards her. Like most of the experiments, she has a digestive tract and would have needed to eat, so she must have had a "keeper" of some kind, but she doesn't seem to have had any attachment to anyone who could serve as a parental substitute and guide her into adulthood.

When we meet her as Mommy Long-Legs, she would be a young adult - she's grown up in her mascot body. But even acknowledging that she's been driven mad by fear and isolation, her emotional development shows several damage markers you'd expect from a child so utterly deprived of love and care and guidance. She's emotionally unstable and prone to throwing extreme tantrums over small and arbitrary inciting factors, like "cheating" at a rigged game - there's very limited ability or desire to moderate or regulate her emotions. She's erratic, has poor impulse control, and when she's angry she lashes out violently at whoever is most convenient - like Bunzo - even though it's someone else - the player - that she's actually mad at. She does try to hide her disappointment at our continued existence behind her bubblegum Mommy persona, but she never quite learned to convincingly mask her emotions the way adults can. Nor has she mastered the art of making and executing a plan - when she attacks, it's all aggression - the single-minded grab-and-smash of an angry, thwarted child. Even Huggy, limited though his intelligence is, stalks the player and tries to chase them into a kill zone. But Mommy relies solely on her stretch ability - automatic, instinctive - and her sheer rage to make her the GameStation's apex predator. Left to raise herself, she never learned a lot of adult skills or survival strategies, and it's become a fatal flaw - she knows her territory, she knows where there would be machinery to look out for, but she's so single-mindedly focused on punishing the player that she completely overlooks her own safety.

Contrast: CatNap.

CatNap is also a young adult when we meet him, and if he'd also been left alone to raise himself, he'd probably have a lot of the same developmental stunting. But he doesn't, and that's interesting.

Now, let's take a very quick detour to look at the behaviour we've seen, not from CatNap, but from the Prototype. We know he's fiercely intelligent, calculating, and a tactical thinker with a talent for using his environment and anything in it (up to and including the player - he makes use of Mommy after we kill her, even though he's the facility's super predator and could easily have done it himself) to his advantage. We know he's stealthy - from how close to us he is at the close of each chapter, he's likely been tailing us from the moment we entered the factory, keeping his distance and watching us to see what we'll do and how he can make use of our actions. Some of his behaviours are strongly reminiscent of a soldier in action - I have a theory here that whoever became the Prototype had, at some point in his previous life, been a military man.

And now look at CatNap. Who has he become?

An intelligent, calculating stealth predator who uses his environment and any weaponizable thing he can get his claws on to take out his prey with minimal risk to himself. He's capable of adult logic and reasoning skills - i.e. the teachers will get hungry and harm the surviving children, so locking them in the school to fight to the death removes all but one threat, who can then be negotiated with once the children have been moved to safety. He's able to form and maintain alliances and agreements. He's even able to identify that the player is either a) not a threat to him or b) proving useful to the Prototype, and overlook his own hunger to offer them mercy: leave Playcare, or I'm coming for you.

In other words, he's grown up a lot like the Prototype.

And there's a reason for that! We know from the interdepartmental report on CatNap that for some reason, after his transformation procedure, he was allowed to socialise with the Prototype - an experiment who's considered so dangerous usually kept on lockdown in isolation under constant surveillance. And the report notes that CatNap "follows [the Prototype] around like a lost puppy" and that the Prototype "doesn't seem to mind".

Which, on its own, could just mean that the Prototype recognised Theo for what he was - a traumatized, hurting, confused little boy - and, aware that CatNap was not a threat, opted for tolerance over violence. But when you consider CatNap's history with the Prototype, I don't think that's it. Theo befriended the Prototype, or vice versa, long before Theo ever became CatNap. He was mortally injured trying to help the Prototype escape, and the Prototype gave up that shot at freedom to get Theo medical attention. They are close, and the fact that CatNap, a decade later, has assumed so many of the Prototype's traits and skills implies that they remained close for a good long while after the Hour of Joy.

Theo, aged 7, is clinging to the one person he feels safe with and protected by after a major trauma. If he follows the Prototype everywhere, he won't be left alone with the scientists. If he's not left alone with the scientists, they can't hurt him anymore. And the Prototype lets him, reinforcing the idea that you're safe with me. It's not unlikely that he feels responsible for CatNap's fate - if he hadn't taken Theo to the Playtime counselors for medical attention, the boy would have peacefully died, and wouldn't be living a nightmare - and he's stepped up to parent CatNap.

And you can see echoes of that ongoing bond in how CatNap behaves a decade later. Who taught him to hunt? The Prototype. Who taught him strategy and tactical thinking? The Prototype. Who gave him the survival skills he needed to make his way to the top of the food chain and stay there? The Prototype.

Unlike Marie, Theo had someone to protect him. Someone to play with and care for him. Someone to hunt for and feed him once the bodies began to run out, at least until he was fully capable of catching, killing and pulling apart his own prey. Someone to socialise with. And he's better adjusted - for a given value of "better adjusted", because like, nobody in this factory is even remotely okay - as a result.

And that's still so human. Despite the absolute horror-show feral animal situation they're all living in.

Just? idk man i have a lot of feelings


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mari-say - Mari Say
Mari Say

Person with wild imagination 🌌✨ | she/her | Rus/Eng

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