Why Is It Harmful To See Naoto Shirogane As A Girl?

Why is it harmful to see Naoto Shirogane as a girl?

[This is not an argumentative post. I am a trans man. This is meant to be educational anyone who denies or even gets aggressive at the idea of Naoto being trans.]

There’s already some posts about this, but I still wanted to make my own and dump it. I apologize for not putting this under a cut, but I feel like people will dismiss it otherwise.

Naoto introduces himself as a boy. Naoto/ 直斗 is a boys given name that means “Honest Big Dipper”, likely not the name he was given by his parents at birth since he’s afab. He clearly doesn’t use his ‘natural’ voice, and tries to make his voice sound deeper, but it still sounds off. This implies he’s working on voice training still and hasn’t mastered his range.

From just looking at canon art of Naoto, we can tell he binds. Sometimes he has a very clear bust, and sometimes he’s completely flat. In Line Sticker art, this is confirmed to be done with bandages.

I bring this up because it’s important to establish: Atlus does not know what they’re doing. Safe binding is not a trans only resource. Cis afab cosplayers bind if they want a flat chest when cosplaying either flat chested women or men, so safety on doing this should be known.

Bandages are not safe. Naoto is putting himself in danger just to make himself look flat chested.

Let’s look at his shadow:

Regardless of in boss-form or not, the shadow has a flat chest. If Naoto’s shadow was a part of himself that he was hiding from, and what he’s hiding is that he’s supposedly a girl, why does his shadow fully present as male?

That’s not what his shadow is. His shadow is Naoto’s insecurities. “He’s not actually a boy. He’s childish. He just doesn’t like himself. He’s scared that people will see him differently if he was clearly a girl. He’s just doing this to success.”

Taking these thoughts that Naoto’s shadow expresses, it becomes obvious that he has internalized transphobia. He’s justifying why he identifies the way he does and telling himself he’s not really what he is.

The game portrays these thoughts and insecurities as internalized misogyny that he needs to overcome.

I don’t know how to tell you that telling an afab person who has said that they’re a boy that they are, in fact, really a girl with internalized misogyny is incredibly transphobic, toxic, and harmful.

This exact mind set is the reason I personally and many other trans men are not allowed to start our medical transition until we are able to leave our parents.

For Naoto’s justifications, saying that it’s so he won’t be judged in the work place- His mother was a famous detective. There’s no reason he should have this fear, and even then, why go so far as he has? Voice training, unsafe binding, and for his work place to not know his agab or dead name? He would have had to legally change it. No one who is just pretending to be a gender they aren’t would not go through THIS much trouble.

There’s also the tons of medical themes that Naoto’s shadow talks about, which- again- for a trans person, having medical themes and surgery on the mind, especially a ‘life altering’ surgery, it’s not that uncommon among trans folk who plan to medically transition. Why would a detective’s dungeon be medical themed when he has no medical traits to his character aside from, perhaps, his transition plans?

Something that bugs me and I’m sure many others a LOT is how, as soon as Naoto’s shadow says he’s ‘actually a girl,’ everyone instantly begins to refer to Naoto as a girl. When this happens from a source that isn’t the character themself, it’s blatantly transphobic. If you hear about someone’s “actual gender” from a person who ISN’T that someone, talk to them about it. Ask them how they actually want to be referred by.

Another small thing, but Kanji is meant to be gay but then they pulled “Aha, he has a crush on Naoto, so he isn’t ACTUALLY gay!” which, yeah, homophobic and transphobic. If a gay man likes a trans man, that is still just as gay as if he liked a cis man. Making Naoto ‘actually a girl’ was hitting two birds with one stone, and cishets- and even other queer people, sadly- ate that shit up.

I’ll go over some arena screenshots now, thank you to @covecaller for posting them.

How much needs to be said about this one? It’s very common for trans people in unwelcoming situations to wish they were born as the gender they actually are, and it especially would make sense for Naoto. As soon as he was outed as afab, no one refereed to him as a boy and they never even asked him about it first.

This is blatant transphobia. “You lack confidence in yourself” is word for word what my mother said to me when I came out to her. Calling trans people ‘lies’ or a ‘liar’ for their identity? Also blatant transphobia.

You can look at the other arena screencaps Zach posted here.

You can say all you want that p4 is old, so of course it’s going to be bad, but so what? Letting it constantly get off the hook and never criticizing the creators will give them a message. Letting things like this go hurts the minorities that that character is a part of, and this is backed up even less by the fact that Atlus STILL hasn’t done anything about it. There is still persona 4 content being made, and Naoto is still being sexualized when he is, by the way, 15-17 throughout the series, and misgendered.

Yes, Naoto is portrayed as a girl who isn’t confident in himself and has internalized misogyny in persona 4, but that’s because the creators see trans men as girls who aren’t confident in themselves and have internalized misogyny.

Reblogs are highly appreciated, feel free to make your own additions with more proof if you feel like I missed out on something important with explaining why Naoto should not be portrayed as a girl.

The more things change, the more they stay the same, amirite?

“Sieglinde is leagues better than that whiny annoying blonde bitch. All Lizzie does is invade Ciel’s boundaries by constantly hugging him!” Did you forget that one of the things Sieglinde did when first talking to Ciel is to grab him by the fucking crotch?

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moonybondevik

2 weeks ago

Elizabeth Midford's Turmoil.

Okay, before I go on my rant, there are manga spoilers from the Arcs that are ahead of where Anime is, so you are being WARNED.

It kind of makes me sad that everyone hates Lizzy nowadays. Like idk what people expect from her. She is 14.

Freaking 14!

You know what we are doing at 14? Worrying and losing shit about our exams and not having good looks at 14.

Like, put yourself in her shoes. The girl lost not only her fiance but also two of her best friends, her uncle and aunt who would have dotted on her with how we know Vincent and Rachel were. She lost them all, and then after a month, one of her cousins came back saying he was her fiance, and this went on for three years.

I'm not saying Our Ciel is a bad guy here or anything. He had his own reasons. But think of it from Lizzy's side. This is supposed to be the boy who she sacrificed so much for. The boy for whom she exchanged beautiful heels for flats, appeared frail and girly because her supposed fiance had been scared of strong women since he was a child and she didn't want him to hate her or be scared of her, so she hid away her natural talents so he wouldn't think of her as the same way he thought of her mother. This is the girl who cried while trying to save the supposed fiance from walking corpses because she thought he'd hate her for being able to protect herself and him and not being girly.

Like has anyone thought about the fact there might have been things that Lizzy and Real Ciel might have discussed that Our Ciel wouldn't know about? Like for this instance here, from Chapter 66 when they are celebrating Easter.

This is seriously something to put into consideration that Lizzy is infact talking to him about something that she had told him before the fire at Phantomhive manor. And he doesn't knows it. And she is shocked. And she is shocked to the point that for the first time in what we have read the manga she asks that what happened to him in that ome month that changed him so much.

And then, all of sudden she is reunited with the guy who knows exactly what she and him talked about when they talking of their future. Mind you both Ciel were 10 and Lizzy was 11 at that time.

Do we even put it into thought that maybe Real Ciel might have given her a whole detailed version of what actually happened when he was killed, like how Our Ciel got the Phantomhive ring and all the gruesome details, and God knows would have told her what else?

And idk if you get it or not, but the fact that she's actually beating herself over is that she couldn't find any difference between Real Ciel and Our Ciel, which, again, if you put yourself in her shoes, will make sense that her reaction is right.

Source: Chapter 144

And even after that, her thoughts first go to how our Ciel might be mocking her or not then she tells Edward what she actually thought at the moment.

These two boys who she played with since they were kids, these two boys who were her best friends, and she couldn't find a difference between her fiance and his brother. It's not anything but traumatizing and something that anyone would feel tremendous guilt over. And even then she is feeling far more guilty over the fact that if she had known the truth, she could have ended up hating Ciel because he wasn't her fiance.

Reminds you guys of something?

Source: Chapter 11

She knows she would have turned bitter and we possibly would have seen the same reaction we did when Madam Red attempted to kill Our Ciel. Something which did happen when we saw her attacking Sebastian when he tried to retrieve her from the Sphere Music Hall. And if not that she feels guilty of playing part in what happened with Our Ciel and the Scotland Yard being set on his tail.

She feels hurt, guilty and confused all over not knowing what to do or who to side with because the guy who was okay with her being a strong woman was not her actual fiance but his younger twin.

Overall. Give the girl a break. She's 14, confused, and emotionally traumatized. Get that we love Our Ciel. I do too. But let's not get angry at a 14-year-old girl and allow her the liberty of having emotions like any real 14-year-old is allowed because let's accept it her situation ain't anything pretty.

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moonybondevik

4 months ago