Nazusuki - ๋࣭. Rey ♡

Hi Kait! So about Saeyoung being parentified, can you share more about that?

Saeyoung Choi was parentified at a young age by his mother and this action left a deep impact on him that plagues him to this day. It does not matter what Route you're playing, Saeyoung reacts to his brother in the way a parent should. His dynamic with Saeran is founded by a bond of brothership, it's more like Saeyoung is the parent and Saeran is a child. It's that way by design, and you can thank Mother Choi for starting this unfortunate cycle.

So, to start off, I should explain what it means to be parentified, huh? Parentification is a form of physical and psychological abuse where a child is forced to take on the role of a parent for their fellow siblings in the house, or even their parents.

There are many kinds of this type of abuse, but two key types are notable in Saeyoung's arc.

Emotional Parentification is when you, the child, take on the role of a confidante or mediator. The child feels responsible for the emotional state of the people around them.

You're handed adult emotions and subject matter well before your pain can process what you're going through, and your mind reacts to this by trying to mend the distress. This can look like comforting your parent after they reveal something deeply distressing, like the details of a divorce, or financial issues to you. This can also look like trying to take care of younger family members when they're upset, leading the older child in this situation to comfort and control the situation in the way the adult should.

Instrumental Parentification is the act of giving a child tasks that are too large for them. That looks like a parent telling you to do grocery shopping, pay bills, cook meals for the family, or take care of a sick sibling, for example.

This is the act of giving a child responsibility in the household that they are not ready for. The adults in the situation expect the child to be capable of understanding adult concepts without failure, and the weight of that stress is more than a child's brain can comprehend. It shouldn't be on a child's shoulders to find food for the family or pay the bills, but that's what happens in this type of abuse.

So, now that I've given a definition of this abuse, let's go ahead and talk about Saeyoung's parentification. I don't think a lot of people in this world want to talk about the effects of parentification because a lot of people have suffered this abuse and don't even know it.

Most people see it as a child "stepping up" in a time of need, but that's not something we should condone as a society.

Saeyoung's first foray into the grown-up world was handed to him when his Mother decided she didn't want to leave the house to get her alcohol. She told him to go and fetch her for her, among other a number of other tasks, like grocery shopping and picking up some medication if needed. He has no choice but to obey her whims if he wants to eat and take care of Saeran, too.

This is how Mother Choi talks about him when he's not there. He was useful because she got double the money for the twins, and because he was strong enough to leave the house, run to escape the threat of anyone looking to kill him, and get the alcohol and food she wanted for herself.

Saeyoung knew everything was going to go to his mother first before he or Saeran got to eat or drink.

Because I don't know if you guys are aware of this or not, but Ray reveals to the player in V's Route that their mother used to only give them white bread and rice to eat. The boys were given scraps and if they got lucky... something hardier because Saeyoung managed to smuggle it.

To the point where he has a strong aversion to the taste of bread now. He doesn't want to eat it. It reminds him of being trapped in that house. He'd eat it if he had to, in the same way, Saeyoung and Saeran can eat anything because if you're hungry enough, trust me, you'll try to do anything to not starve.

I know a lot of people haven't played Rika's Behind DLC, but years into running errands and taking care of tasks for his mother, Rika sees mistrust and fear on his face. She doesn't get it at first, but considering the fact that she also suffers from abuse, it starts to make sense to her the longer she interacts with him. She saw her trauma in Saeyoung... similar to how she starts to see her pain in Saeran, too.

Rika's intentions were compassionate at first as a person who saw her tortured self in these boys.

Do you know what it would feel like for a child like Saeyoung to spend years running errands for his family on a minimal budget that mostly gets spent on alcohol, not only fearing that the money he had wasn't going to be enough but knowing his biological father was around the corner waiting to kill him?

Saeyoung lived in fear every day of his life but he wasn't allowed to be afraid. He had to be a big boy for Saeran and survive the scary places he was sent to otherwise his brother would be alone. Saeyoung knew he had to survive so Saeran wouldn't be alone. That place was bad as it was when it was the two of them, but if they were alone...?

If it was just Saeran alone or Saeyoung alone?

Well, we know how Saeran later describes it in the secret ending. It took V and Rika a few weeks to get everything together for Saeran, but in that time, Mother Choi spent hours denying Saeran food and water because she couldn't find Saeyoung. Saeyoung was right to be afraid of those things, but the problem is that he shouldn't have had to have lived that way.

He was a child just like Saeran.

Saeyoung would never acknowledge that fact, though. But, he was a child forced into the role of an adult. There hasn't been a moment in his life where he wasn't playing the grown-up... unless we counted a couple of years where he couldn't walk or talk.

There's a reason why he wouldn't admit he suffered this, though. He doesn't want to ever admit he was hurt because he thinks Saeran's trauma is valid in comparison to his. Sure, he got hurt, but he's the "responsible twin". He is the "grown-up". He is the "big brother". I'm sure Saeyoung's MCs are aware of that because that's why he's so damn resistant to being vulnerable with you!

It's because of this trauma!

I'm not going to dump every example into this post, but I will point out these screenshots in particular to make my point. This is how a child who is aware of financial instability acts.

The next thing Saeyoung became aware of was how important money was. He spent all his time trying to run these errands for Mother Choi, and even if he didn't know how to count on his fingers and toes, he had to learn fast.

If he's only given so much money, he has to debate what to pay for and what he can and can't get. "Mother told me to get the "x kind of alcohol and that costs y, but we need more of this food for us to be able to eat, but the food costs z. What do I do?" He learns faster than anyone that if he wants to get out of that house, they need to get a lot of money, fast. They can't touch whatever Saejoong sends them.

She'd notice Saeyoung taking that money. Mother Choi might not be all there in her later years as alcoholism rots her brain, but if there is one thing she knows, it's that her brand costs XYZ and she better be able to afford that since Saejoong sends the "ZYX" amount.

Money is a serious problem for many families. I can tell you from firsthand experience that being exposed to the money insecurity around me at a young age made me paranoid about the concept of money. Why do you guys think Saeyoung buys those cars? He has those cars because they're easy to get rid of for quick cash if you're desperate. He loves being a mechanic, but it's not just about those cars.

It's about the money.

Every dime he makes from the agency isn't something he considers to be safe. That's why he keeps extra items in his bunker to get rid of if he needs to make quick cash. The game itself doesn't go into detail about how many different bank accounts Saeyoung has or where he stores his money, but it's worth noting that Saeyoung has as much in his pocket as Jumin does, if not more. He just doesn't spend it due to the fear he has.

What if Saeran needs that money?

It's not "What if I need that money?"

It's "What if Rika or V asks me for money to help him and I can make that happen?" and it's "What if the agency explodes someday and I'm free to live with Saeran? I want Saeran to have everything... all of it. I need to be able to have a limitless amount of money so he's never without."

So, he's determined to find another way to make money to help his brother escape. Have you guys ever noticed Saeyoung's language in the game when he talks about escaping? It's never about him. There isn't a moment where he considers his wants or needs. That's due to the fact that he's been trying to care for Saeran first and foremost. It is his job, not only because his mother told him to do it, but because he feels like it's his destiny to protect Saeran as the big brother.

That brings me to what Saeyoung understood as his job from the minute he could understand abstract thought and walk.

The fact that Saeyoung believes it's his job to take care of Saeran's emotional regulation. Every choice he's ever made in his life was to protect Saeran from becoming aware of how much danger existed around them. Every time Saeran cried, Saeyoung took it personally, and he jumped into action to help Saeran calm down.

He spent those days trying to distract Saeran, tell him stories, or he would create games to keep his mind off the ropes on his ankles and the storm in the other room. Of course, Saeyoung was a child just as his brother was, and he wasn't the best at "being the parent".

There were moments when Saeyoung couldn't help himself, and he would cry or scream at Saeran without meaning to. Saeyoung would feel a great deal of shame after it and mask his emotions even deeper to survive as Saeran's caretaker. In fact, I had a bitter chuckle when I glanced through the Secret Ending to grab examples of this fact and a nurse outright called Saeyoung "Saeran's caretaker".

I can clip hundreds of examples where Saeyoung focuses on Saeran's emotional state before his own. This is an example I explained. Where Saeran mentions a time when he tried to argue with Saeyoung about how he felt and Saeyoung screamed at him. Saeyoung wants to make a better world for Saeran so Saeran can be a child... and he just can't accept that Saeran is aware of how dire things are.

He's been trying for years to keep Saeran in a state of naivety for his protection. Saeran was never naive, though. He knew better, but he saw how hard Saeyoung was trying... he didn't want to get yelled at for telling Saeyoung what he really felt.

Saeran wanted to be just like Saeyoung because Saeyoung was the "strong one". He saw his twin brother being "grown-up". Why wouldn't Saeran start to view Saeyoung as more of a parent? You don't have to call someone your parent to view them as a parent, and that is very much the case for the younger siblings who count on their siblings for that bond.

Saeyoung has a horrible habit of saying: "If I am strong, then you are strong. You're me and I'm you." It was the only thing he could think of to help Saeran when they were kids. It's poetic and thoughtful, but it isn't helpful for Saeran's emotional regulation. It placed the weight of his strength on Saeyoung and Saeyoung alone. Saeran didn't want to do that, but Saeyoung kept doing that over and over again.

Saeyoung was a child who tried his best with what he was given, but again, he was a child who had to throw glue at the wall until he made himself believe something stuck. A major problem with Saeyoung at his core is that he can't see Saeran as anything but a helpless child... he infantilizes Saeran quite often. The last time he saw Saeran, that situation was different.

He was playing the role of Saeran's parent and Saeran depended on him for everything. He has a very hard time stepping outside of that role. Saeyoung plays the role of a caretaker as best he can, but that's a problem. Saeran isn't a child and neither is Saeyoung anymore. He's got to do what's right for Saeran, but Saeyoung continues to think he knows best no matter what because he's Saeran's caretaker.

He can't shut that mentality off. It's going to take a lot of therapy for Saeyoung to confront this fact, but in the Secret Ending, there isn't any moment of time he can spare for that. He's still busy living in the worst nightmare of his life. He won't let himself focus on recovering from the gunshot wound, nor will he work on physical therapy when he needs to. He neglects his needs because he's afraid for Saeran at every turn.

In some regard, we, the players, understand why that is. We know the truth that others don't. If Saejoong finds out about them, they will be killed for it. There is only so much Jumin can do to protect them, and he's already doing more than any average person would.

Saeyoung is aware that the hospital wants to sedate Saeran for the violence he's displayed to doctors and nurses. But, he knows that his brother doesn't want to be drugged again. He is in a crisis of morality for days. What's the right thing to do? He knows Saeran needs to be in the hospital but he can't let that continue.

He feels that he knows better for his brother at the moment.

He knows Saeran will stay in a hospital room to get the help he needs.

But, how long before someone finds out? Even Jumin points out that the risk of his father finding out about Saeran is high. Saeyoung has to make a painful choice. Remove Saeran from the hospital knowing that it's not good for Saeran's mental health or keep him trapped in a psych ward knowing it might get him killed. He did what he thought was right.

It's a difficult question.

But, Saeyoung didn't think twice. He knew he had to make a hard decision to save Saeran's life. He didn't discuss anything with anyone else. He just acted. He acted with the knowledge that he is the only one who understands what Saeran needs. He is the only one who is capable of protecting Saeran. He can't trust anyone else ever again.

He will be the adult, the grown-up, the parent, and the big brother. I have to point at this exchange as a good example of Saeyoung being the one who feels like he has to regulate Saeran's emotions. Look at how he speaks to Saeran, begs with him, pleads with him, and tries to play the parent who doesn't know how bad it was but wants to do something to make it right.

"I was awed there was something in this world I had to protect. I'm blessed to have someone that I need to protect. Thank you, Saeran... for being there so that I can protect you. You existing beside me gives me one more reason to live."

That is the language of a man who has no life purpose but to be a parent to his twin brother his entire life. He says outright that his job was to make sure that Saeran could stay alive no matter what. He is the last person who should be trying to break through to Saeran in this situation about what it means to want to live or die, but he feels that there is no other choice.

What is Saeyoung's purpose if not to be Saeran's parental figure? His caretaker? Even as he starts to heal and learn how to live with his MC in a world that he wants to live in forever... he is going to be grappling with that question.

This doesn't change at the End of Secret Ending when Saeran and Saeyoung have their "breakthrough."

Saeran still looks to Saeyoung for an answer and Saeyoung wants to give one. In fact, the reason why Saeran decides that it's not worth it to kill himself isn't just due to the fact that he realized that Saeyoung would do anything for his happiness, even die.

It's also because he realized that Saeyoung will not let him die. He doesn't want Saeran to die and he won't Saeran do it. That doesn't stop Saeran's suicidal thoughts. He simply becomes apathetic after this. He knows he can't die no matter what he does, what's the point in trying again? He doesn't have a sudden revelation. He just learns that Saeyoung won't quit trying to save his life.

Saeyoung: "Let's go back to how we were. We've survived so much. Our happiness now can shine brighter because of that."

Saeran: "I hated that about you. I hated how you were positive about the future, and yet, I admired it at the same time too. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this time if only because that's the only choice I have right now."

Saeyoung, my dearest, you can't go back. This sets up how I view the way Saeyoung will treat Saeran going forward until he gets into some therapy and acknowledges what he went through. This doesn't make Saeyoung a bad person, but it does show the player how Saeyoung's unable to stop seeing himself as a child who had to be a grown-up to survive. He needs to accept that Saeran is a grown-up and that he's a grown-up, too.

Saeran should be allowed to do what he wants, and outside of doing the right thing by removing sharp objects and more things like that outside of that bunker, as well as offering emotional support when it is asked for, Saeyoung should learn who his brother is today instead of thinking of him as the baby who clung to him when they were both stuck in that nightmare home.

Just as Saeran should give Saeyoung a chance to show who he is as an adult, too, when he's ready. He doesn't need to see Saeyoung as a savior or a caretaker, and he doesn't want to, but they need time, the both of them, to get out of that place. I think with time, therapy, and the help of MC will do wonders for this.

I know I didn't get into where this would play out in Another Story, but it's the same sentiment. But, in that situation, Saeyoung has no choice but to be forced into seeing Saeran's autonomy as an adult. It's far different than what we're shown in Saeyoung's Route. I know the game doesn't cover this either, but I have to add something else to this.

You know V's murder is something that Saeyoung is going to take the blame for. Saeran is never going to be blamed in Saeyoung's eyes and I don't see that changing even as they get better. He will say it's a sin he committed since he was the one who put Saeran in that position, to begin with.

It's painful to think about but it's the truth.

Saeyoung will gloss over Saeran's actions because he is his brother. That's going to cause issues later on as Saeran takes ownership of his actions. He won't be able to talk about those things with his brother... because Saeyoung will excuse him. "It's my fault. Blame me. I failed you as a big brother. Your actions were mine. They weren't yours. I'm the filthy sinner. I am Luciel. I am Lucifer. I take your sins and cleanse you of them."

Saeyoung became a monster and he feels like Saeran shouldn't be called one when he already took the burden as Saeran's other half. That's a part of what he can't admit to himself. That he feels like a parent who must take care of everything that happened to Saeran as if it were his sin instead.

I feel like this is a part of Saeyoung Choi that a lot of people can relate to, but it's the pain of knowing that he hasn't realized how deep this trauma runs in him.

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I think not nearly enough people comprehend just how messed up Rika's and V's relationships truly was, actually. It is so easy to get hyperfocused on the big climax of their toxic obsession: the cult, the physical violence, and the secrets. But, like... You ever actually sit down and think about the sheer fact that V looked at Rika: a hurt, traumatized girl, terrified of being her true self, desperate for love she didn't even have a clear idea of in her own mind, safe for some very vague feeling she deemed to be 'love', and... He saw beauty in it. He was never malicious about it, nor did he even realize it fully, not until MC came into his life and pushed him into reevaluating his own worth as well as his views on what love truly is. But, at the time, he saw all that hidden pain and trauma in her, and he saw beauty in it. He was intrigued by it. It fascinated him. He desired to transform it into something even more stunning with his own two hands, analogous to an artist fixing his next big masterpiece. And she was his masterpiece. One he would paint and bend and mold into something he knew he wanted to achieve. It wasn't even a want, it was a craving. Not really knowing that he was just so racked with guilt and self-hatred after his mother's death, that he was merely trying to prove himself to no one but his own troubled and scared mind. To prove to himself that he could be an artist, and that he really could love like the sun. That he could save someone this time around, instead of losing them. Because, truth is, he could never be an artist, not in the way his soul truly longed for.

Rika was both his muse and his creation at the same time.

That's why he never encouraged her to get the help she desperately needed if she didn't want to do it herself. That's why he never got involved in any extreme ways until it became far too difficult for him to handle. That's why he told her time and time again that she was beautiful and perfect just the way she is, even when she herself would doubt and be deeply disturbed by his eager willingness to sink into the deepest of lows for her.

In a way, neither of them truly knew each other. It's a fact that they cared for each other at one point in time. But they didn't see each other as equal individuals to grow and change alongside. For Rika, V was her sun she adored and loathed all the same. He was not a person, he was just an anchor that kept her steady and a cruel reminder of all she could never be. For V, Rika was his canvas to pour his locked away feelings onto. She was not a person, she was a living proof of his ability to create and love in a way he desperately craved.

And in the end, that destroyed and scarred both of them. Not only them, but also many completely innocent individuals who were caught in the crossfire.

What a big, complicated, and horrible mess these two are.

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Dear Baby Bats - Goth Band Recommendations

As a middle sibling goth (I’ve been in the subculture for 10 years now, so not a baby bat but not an elder goth either), let me turn you on to some bands because we do not gatekeep in this house!! Also, if you want consistently good lesser-known & brand new goth band recs, go follow Awfully Sinister on TikTok and Instagram. He’s a DJ & has great recs. I've found so much music through him because it's really hard to keep up with all the new bands cropping up every year. You want to avoid the goth subreddit because they are extremely gatekeeper-y and argue over labels constantly. It’ll just confuse you, and they are not nice over there.

If you’re very new to the subculture, and you haven’t yet listened to all of Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy, Christian Death, Cocteau Twins, Clan of Xymox, Joy Division, and Depeche Mode, go do so now. You'll want to know which of them you really enjoy the most because it will help you know which sub-subgenre(s) of goth you want to watch out for, and it'll tell you what to look for to find it. For example, Sisters of Mercy is the gothic rock subgenre, Christian Death is deathrock, Cocteau Twins is ethereal wave, Clan of Xymox is like the original darkwave, Joy Division is classic post-punk, etc. I haven’t included industrial, despite its proximity to the goth subculture, just because I actually don’t really know that many industrial bands beyond Skippy Puppy, Ministry, and Throbbing Gristle. Some other goth/goth-adjacent staple bands (that are very popular and very influential) that you should listen to if you haven’t already are The Damned, Killing Joke, The Cult, and Adam and the Ants/Adam Ant). I didn't know where to put She Wants Revenge or London After Midnight either, but they're also great.

I’ve bolded some of my absolute must-listen to goth bands, and I've put monthly Spotify listeners for each band so you know which ones deserve WAY more love. And in my pre-list ramblings for each OG band, I've given you some key terms to look up so you can more easily find music that's similar to what you enjoy. Okay, here we go:

If you like Bauhaus:

Bauhaus is a hard one because honestly, nobody really sounds like them, and they aren't really that closely associated with a specific sub-subgenre of goth. They were post-punk, they were art rock, they were experimental, they were sometimes very punk and at other times very gothic rock. They liked to call themselves “dark glam rock” (all four members are massive Bowie, T-Rex, and Iggy Pop fans), but you’re gonna have a hard time finding bands that sound like them if you look that term up. They probably have one of the most unique sounds of all-time. They’re my favorite band (I even have a tattoo for them, like I am devoted lol), but even I have a difficult time finding other bands that scratch their particular itch for me. These bands I’ve listed are as close as you’re gonna get to Bauhaus’ general vibe imo.

Virgin Prunes (80’s band that is technically deathrock but has the same absolutely unhinged, danceable sound that Bauhaus has, so they’re going here; one of my favorites; no one else does it like them and no one else ever will; I would actually give my left foot to see them live); 13.2k monthly listeners (this is actually physically painful to me, how is it this low!!! don't walk, RUN to go listen to them)

Alien Sex Fiend (80’s classic unhinged goth); 77k monthly listeners

Sextile (modern band that has some very Bauhaus-sounding guitar work at times but with heavy industrial influences); 147k listeners

The Danse Society (80’s unhinged goth; has similar experimental vibes to Bauhaus imo; one of my fave goth groups); 36k listeners

Sex Beat (80’s); not even really on Spotify

Ritual Howls (modern band; I don’t know why it gives Bauhaus, but it does; one of the few modern bands that scratches that particular itch for me); 45k listeners

The Agnes Circle (modern band; one of my favorites; they have the right Bauhaus-like atmosphere for me); 52k listeners

Traitrs (I can’t explain why they remind me of Bauhaus, but they do; another one of my fave modern bands; they make me want to start levitating and doing the Ian Curtis dance in the same way Bauhaus does lol); 239k listeners

Paralisis Permanente (underrated 80’s; they have a lot in common with Bauhaus’s sound actually, def give them a try!); 54k monthly listeners

The Birthday Party (80s band, totally unhinged; they’re less dark and atmospheric than Bauhaus, but if you take one listen to their album Junkyard, you’ll know exactly why I put them under this category haha; Nick Cave is the vocalist, which is amazing); 54k listeners

Tones on Tail (80s; Daniel Ash & Kevin Haskins of Bauhaus formed this group; I’d put Love and Rockets as well, which is all of Bauhaus’s members except Peter Murphy, but Love and Rockets weirdly bears little resemblance to Bauhaus’s music; but if you just generally want more of Bauhaus members' work, Love and Rockets is great, too); 81k listeners

Dalis Car (80s; collaboration between Peter Murphy and Japan's bassist; their music is extremely weird, so only listen if you really love the batshit insane Bauhaus songs or if you really live and breathe Peter Murphy like I do lol; their description on Spotify is so fucking funny); 7k listeners

I'd also recommend listening to Daniel Ash, David J, and Peter Murphy's solo work. They're all great!! Peter also did some amazing collaborations with Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails); the version of Reptile that they did together is better than Nine Inch Nail's original version imo, and you can find that entire session on Youtube!

If you like Siouxsie and the Banshees:

Siouxsie is another one that's hard to pin down sound-wise because again, they don't really fit into one specific sub-subgenre, so all of these recs are just goth bands with female vocalists who have the same kind of powerful vocals that Siouxsie does.

Second Still (modern band, one of my faves; singer sounds a lot like Siouxsie to me at times); 69k listeners

Skeletal Family (80’s band; has the same “women in punk” vibes that Siouxsie has); 55k listeners

Xmal Deutschland (80’s band; has the same powerful vocals that Siouxsie has; makes you wanna go stupid go crazy the way the Banshees do); 73k listeners

Secret Shame (modern band w/ woman singer; has the same rage that Siouxsie songs have to me, especially early Siouxsie); 6k listeners (let's get those numbers up, folks!!!)

Rosegarden Funeral Party (modern band w/ a woman vocalist); 57k listeners

Mephisto Walz (90s & 2000s; sounds so much like the Banshees at times); 56k listeners

The Creatures (80s; a Siouxsie Sioux & Budgie side project); 34k listeners

Madhouse (listen to Repulsion! 80s group that’s technically deathrock, but I put them under this category because the singer has Siouxsie-like qualities); not really on Spotify

Strange Boutique (90s; vocalist is Monica Richards of Faith and the Muse & Madhouse; this is probably my favorite project of hers); 112k listeners

If you like Depeche Mode:

For Depeche Mode enjoyers (which DM is kind of on the fringes of what’s considered “goth,” but they’re so entrenched in the subculture that I included them anyway), you’re gonna want to delve into goth playlists and modern goth that leans towards synthpop/synthwave. So those are the kinds of playlists you’ll want to search up for similar sounds to DM.

Nuovo Testamento (modern band; combines post-punk and pop elements in a way that’s very similar to Depeche Mode; lots of fun live, and they have a good sound); 25k listeners

Boy Harsher (modern band; relies heavily on synth; feels like it should be playing at every goth club); 558k listeners

ULTRA SUNN (modern band; singer sounds like Dave Gahan); 217k listeners (they just blew up on tiktok recently, which explains why this just skyrocketed since the last time I was on their Spotify page lol; good for them, good for them, they deserve it)

Ministry's first album (called With Sympathy), which was synthwave/synthpop before they went industrial (this is one of my all-time favorite albums)

French Police (modern band); 252k listeners

Closed Tear (modern band); 152k listeners

Night Sins (modern band); 33k listeners

Panic Priest (modern band; vocals sound decently similar to Dave Gahan & there is a lot of reliance on synth; In All Severity is a gorgeous song); 5k listeners

Fad Gadget (underrated 80’s; I just feel like if you like DM, you’re also gonna like Fad Gadget); 58k listeners

Martin Dupont (underrated 80s cold wave/synth pop; Inside Out is one of my favorite 80s songs); 26k listeners

If you like The Cure:

You'll be hard-pressed to find a goth band that wasn't influenced by The Cure, so I really can't give you any key terms for what to look up lol. They also changed their sound so frequently that it entirely depends on what era of The Cure's music you're looking to find similar music for.

Vision Video (modern band; combines post-punk and pop elements like The Cure does; one of my fave modern goth bands; they are INCREDIBLE live); 52k listeners (I'm gonna need y'all to get a song or two of theirs to blow up on tiktok expeditiously lol)

Urban Heat (modern band; great live); 36k listeners

The Chameleons (80’s band; very underrated; they are also very good live); 167k listeners

House of Harm (modern band, very new; also very good live; has pop elements); 44k listeners

Deceits (modern band, another very new one); 28k listeners (it's crazy how much this number has grown the past two months because it was in the single thousands not that long ago; everyone say thank you, tiktok)

Drab Majesty (modern band; their instrumentals remind me of The Cure); 172k listeners

Double Echo (modern band, one of my faves; their instrumentals also remind me of The Cure); 15k listeners (let's get these numbers up!!!)

The Bolshoi (underrated 80’s band that combines new wave and goth elements in a similar way to The Cure); 114k listeners

The Essence (underrated 80s band that sounds so much like The Cure it’s actually insane, but they’ve got their own sound too; they’re like a perfect blend of all of The Cure’s different sounds); 25k monthly listeners

The Glove (80s; a Robert Smith side project with Steven Severin from Siouxsie and the Banshees); 25k listeners

Crimson Ivy (80s band; singer sounds so a lot like a more yelly version of Robert Smith sometimes); not on Spotify

Miss Teen America (brand new band from NYC! They only have one single out right now, and it’s well worth listening to); 940 monthly listeners (y’all know what to do!!! Let’s get those numbers up, up, up!) link to their single: https://open.spotify.com/album/4nvdZeUVLLrMv3tEziCqm7?si=2WVS7-eYQLGR7Id3wLiKhg

If you like Clan of Xymox:

Most of these bands will be modern ones because Clan of Xymox was honestly way ahead of their time. (They are also amazing live, so go see them before they eventually call it quits!) For playlists that are full of their vibe, you’re gonna want to look up “darkwave” playlists. Clan of Xymox pioneered darkwave, so any darkwave band you listen to is gonna be influenced by their sound in some way or another.

Harsh Symmetry (modern, very new; very heavily relies on synth); 29k listeners

Ssleeping Desiress (modern band; instrumentals similar to Xymox); 55k listeners

Twin Tribes (probably my favorite modern goth band; they are fucking incredible and so good live!); 276k listeners

ACTORS (modern band; heavily relies on synth); 86k listeners

Mareux (modern; heavily relies on synth); 4.8 million listeners (this is wild!!!! everyone say thank you, tiktok)

Sixth June (modern); 23k listeners

Plastique Noir (modern); 40k listeners

Rendez Vous (modern); 160k listeners

Minuit Machine (modern); 97k listeners

The Frozen Autumn (90s & 2000s); 31k listeners

If you like Christian Death:

All of these recs will be deathrock recs or goth bands that heavily leaned on punk sounds. So if CD is the OG goth band you’re most fond of, you’re gonna want to delve into deathrock playlists for similar sounds.

Asylum Party (80’s band); not on spotify

45 Grave (80’s band); 47k listeners

Voodoo Church (80’s band; probably my favorite out of this bunch; I actually like them more than Christian Death); 7k listeners (let's get these numbers up immediately!!!!)

Ausgang (80’s band); 2k listeners (WHAT; they deserve so much more, damn)

Corpus Delicti (90’s band; they are very good; they sound the least like Christian Death on this list imo); 26k listeners

13th Chime (80’s band; very underrated); 6k listeners

UK Decay (you know, I actually don’t know what era they’re from; unhinged sound); 1k listeners (omg)

Super Heroines (underrated 80’s band; Eva O formed it); 2k listeners (you see what I meant about underrated?)

Specimen (80s band; this one could have just as easily gone under Bauhaus tbh, but the vocals are generally higher pitched than Peter Murphy’s, so I put them under this category); 102k listeners

Sex Gang Children (80’s band; just so unhinged & I love them for it); 27k listeners

Suspiria (90s, I think? I don’t actually know); barely on Spotify but 27k listeners

Theatre of Hate (80s); 7k listeners

Bloody Dead and Sexy (2000s, I think); 44k listeners

Mescaline Babies (2000s); 3k listeners

Acid Bats (2000s; Mexican band with Spanish lyrics); 2k listeners

Altar de Fey (80s band; formed in San Francisco!!); 23k listeners

Twisted Nerve (80s band; classified as “gothic punk,” so I felt this was the best category for them; they’re great; their sound also reminds me of early Siouxsie and the Banshees and Killing Joke); 2.5k listeners

Play Dead (80s); 8k listeners

Limbo (underrated 80s; if you like Bauhaus & Virgin Prunes as well, you’re gonna like this band); 413 listeners

If you like Cocteau Twins:

Cocteau Twins’ early sound is usually categorized as “ethereal wave” goth, so those are the playlists you’ll want to look up if you enjoy their early sound. If you like their later sound, you’re gonna want to lean more towards shoegaze for similar vibes. Admittedly, ethereal wave is one of the goth subgenres that I know the least about, so I’m not gonna be much help here.

Dead Can Dance (80’s band; NO one, and I mean NO ONE, was doing it like Dead Can Dance; so fun to dance to in the goth club); 332k listeners

Lycia (90’s band; their music is very transcendent); 20k listeners

Linea Aspera (modern band; gorgeous woman vocals; honestly, their music is just very beautiful); 67k listeners

This Mortal Coil (formed in the 80s; some songs feature Elizabeth Fraser & Robin Guthrie from Cocteau Twins, but even the ones that don’t still have an ethereal vibe similar to CT; Sixteen Days/Gathering Dust is just like the best song ever); 310k listeners

Autumn's Grey Solace (2000s); 62k listeners

Faith and the Muse; (90s); 22k listeners

This Ascension (90s); 4k listeners

Strawberry Switchblade (80s); 400k listeners

If you like Joy Division:

All of these bands will be ones that sound very classically post-punk, so those are the playlists to search out; emphasis on "classic" because post-punk is a very broad term that gets applied to a lot of music. I would argue that Joy Division has had the most influence out of all the OG goth bands on the current goth sound/goth renaissance we're going through right now, so there are a LOT of bands out there for you if you’re a JD fan.

Molchat Doma (modern band); 2.5 million listeners (wow lol, they've grown so much over the past two years, it's actually insane; good for them)

Soviet Soviet (modern band); 152k listeners

Fearing (modern band; very good live); 30k listeners

Ploho (modern band); 146k listeners

Pink Turns Blue (criminally underrated 80’s band; they are SO good live); 98k listeners (this is an actual travesty, this band is way too good to not even be in the hundred thousands)

The Sound (another incredibly underrated 80’s band); 119k listeners

This Cold Night (modern; has the deep vocals of Joy Division and the driving bass but more stripped back than JD); 150k listeners

Bleib Modern (modern; has very similar vocals to Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, which is a band listed under the Sisters of Mercy section of this post, so if you end up liking this band, you should also listen to Red Lorry Yellow Lorry & vice versa); 36k listeners

Lebanon Hanover (modern; has the existential angst that Joy Division always ignites in me but more stripped back); 936k listeners (this is crazy, holy shit!!!!!! go, Lebanon Hanover, go!!)

She Past Away (modern; deep vocals); 226k listeners

Belgrado (modern; woman vocals!); 18k listeners (they deserve better than this!!)

Leonora Post Punk (modern; Mexican goth band w/ Spanish vocals! They’re amazing! They have those deep vocals you want when you’re looking for a similar sound to Joy Division); 56k listeners

O. Children (modern; has the deep vocals & interesting bass lines that Joy Division was known for; great band); 29k listeners

If you like Sisters of Mercy:

This is one of my least favorite goth subcategories, which is odd because I actually love Sisters. But if you’re looking for a lot of music that sounds like SoM, I’d suggest delving into the 90’s and early 2000’s goth music scene. Search out those playlists. A lot of the 90s and 2000s goth bands were very derivative of Sisters of Mercy.

Rosetta Stone (90’s band); 54k listeners

Miazma (modern); 10k listeners

Red Lorry Yellow Lorry (another criminally underrated 80’s band; one of my fave goth bands); 40k listeners (THEY!! DESERVE!! BETTER!!)

Dreamtime (modern); 65 listeners (ouch lol, please go show them some love)

Fields of the Nephilim (80’s, I think; if you’re a metalhead, you’ll probably appreciate this band); 95k listeners

The Merry Thoughts (80s); 19k listeners

The March Violets (underrated 80s; might be a controversial opinion to put them under SoM, but I’m standing by it); 69k listeners

Horror Vacui (modern; it’s kind of a stretch putting them here tbh, but I couldn’t figure out what other category to put them under); 44k listeners

The Sisterhood (spin-off Sisters of Mercy group that was formed by goth king Andrew Eldritch himself); 3k listeners

The Mission (formed by former Sisters of Mercy members; Wasteland by them was actually one of the first songs to get me into goth music); 180k listeners

Eyes of the Nightmare Jungle (late 80s & 90s; every time a song by them comes on, I’m convinced it’s a Sisters song until the singer starts singing lol); 13k listeners

Ex-Voto (formed in 1982, but most of their albums on Spotify came out in the 2000s; this band is like if Fields of Nephilim had a baby with Clan of Xymox & then sprinkled some industrial techniques in); 6k listeners

Also, if you want a 1500-song, 105-hour goth playlist that’s constantly growing, here you go. The name of it is a dig at my ex lol: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6jCV530pMmOEmDHj4CLNka?si=cEVKiyAwQpaieGiV2pMyqw

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real

Cocteau Twins: Head Over Heels (1983)

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i don’t know if anyone else has this uploaded so here you go. enstars anime, ep 11 (?) rei and tsumugi’s interaction. “You can do it if you try.”

(yes i have the fountain one too)

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Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine, German CD

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