Dammit The Only Astrologist I’ve Ever Trusted Used The Revised Version With 13 Star Signs And Under

Jfc y’all. Imagine doubling down this bad.

“Hey, I just made a new term!!”

“Uh. That term you made isn’t really new, and has been used in the past to say some really fucking harmful shit.”

“Uuuuuh actually I made it up myself and you’re lying.”

“??? Bitch literally here’s my sources-“

“But that’s a DIFFERENT word. Mine means this and that means that.”

“But… in *this context*, that word is really fucking bad. You should use a different fucking word?”

“This is slander and the actions of a hate group trying to silence me. I’m going to shout about the word even more now. It’s not even the same word!”

“THIS IS SUPER FUCKING OFFENSIVE TO ME JFC ARE YOU TRYING TO BE HURTFUL?”

“See?? They’re claiming I did this on purpose! This idiot doesn’t even know I only did 30 minutes of research lmao!”

This is the hill you wanna die on? This is the term you really think is best for the entire ass community??? Better than natural multiplicity I guess……..

Is this not, rather, a measure of fucked upedness? For instance, surely Skitter/Weaver/Khepri is a poor little meow meow, despite being the third best person in canon (beat only by Vista and Dragon)?

people need to realise that a poor little meow meow must be a character who has committed atrocities you cannot poor little meow meow a good guy that's not how this works

Ah, I see! I suppose that makes sense, if nothing that normally happens with spine growth would mean it has to be replaced. It's a bit variable, but losing out on a good half of one's teenage height gains that way would be a sensible expectation.

Agree that it's bizarre - it's not even very interesting with these characters.

Also have to say - Danny's foes are often towards the upper end of DC's scaling in the first place, so I don't really get what you're going for with that bit? There is a bit of a tendency to downscale his opponents, but going from "reality wrapping" to basically a Lord of Order doesn't do all that much, really.

Danny gets isekai’d into the DC universe. He still is a half ghost but he’s considered a meta whose abilities activated from a trauma now. His powers are even stronger here which is good because the apparent power scaling of villains and heroes is FAR past the fights he had with ghosts in his home town.

Ignoring all of that chaos for the moment, how on earth is he going to explain to this nice older couple whose wheat fields he just crashed into that he means no harm? And why are they acting like they’ve dealt with this situation before?

While solid evidence for your survivability, it does not evidence running speed. You may, perhaps, be some sort of stable geographical feature, such as a valley or a mountain.

why didn't they just leave pompeii when the volcano erupted? were they stupid?

I noticed that it seems you've categorised afferent attachment as fronting, whereas we tend to identify the efferent attachment as fronting - hence, "I can feel the body while someone else is there" or "I can feel headmate's limb" or "I can see, but not much else". This has caused me some confusion with other terms you've based on this, and wonder if I should use them if I identify the appropriate range of efferent/afferent matches, or...

Dimensions of Fronting

In my Manifestations post, I used fronting as a catch-all term for any sort of physical attachment to the body.

I'd like to delve into that a bit more here, exploring language to better explain individual experiences of fronting and control over the body.

This isn't really intended for every day use, but is meant to better explain plural experiences of fronting in a more clear and more precise way.

Full body vs Locational Attachment

Full body attachment is, as expected, attachment to the entire body at once.

Locational Attachment is attachment to specific body parts such as only a hand or just the legs. When referencing locational attachment, it's usually useful to refer to the part of the body one is attached to.

Efferent vs Afferent Attachment

Besides simply being locational, attachment can come in afferent and efferent forms. Some nerves send signals from the brain to the body. Other nerves in the brain receive signals from the body.

Nerves responsible for sending signals from the brain to the body are called efferent nerves. These allow you to control the body. Nerves responsible for receiving signals are afferent. These allow you to sense things through the body.

Attachment can exist in both forms separately.

If a headmate feels like they're experiencing everything happening to the body but feel like somebody else is controlling it, they're experiencing afferent attachment with efferent detachment.

If a headmate is controlling the body but feels disconnected, as if everything is happening to somebody else, this is efferent attachment with afferent detachment.

Alternative Terminology:

The terms above are more technical, designed to help conceptualize the dimensions of fronting. For everyday use, I would recommend Possession and Attunement.

Possession referring to taking control of the body, attunement to receiving signals from its senses as if they were your own.

Solitary Attachment vs Shared Attachment and Co-fronting

Any of previous attachment types may be experienced by multiple headmates at once. Multiple headmates feel like the whole body is theirs and share control over it simultaneously. Shared attachment can also be over specific limbs, where multiple headmates feel like the limb is theirs at once.

If only one headmate feels attached to the body or limb, this is solitary attachment.

When multiple headmates are controlling the body, this is usually called co-fronting.

How to use the language?

One thing I often struggle with is putting our experiences into words.

A lot of plural language is vague and has multiple conflicting meanings. Part of an issue with having such a large community made up of many smaller communities.

What one person means when they say they're fronting may not be what another means.

This allows us to more easily describe and compare different plural experiences.

For example, a distinction for our partial possession vs our proxying.

When I partially possess an arm, I fully experience that arm as if it's mine. I experience both afferent and efferent locational attachment to that specific limb. If using possession and attunement terms, this may also be considered Attuned Locational Possession or Partial Attuned Possession.

In contrast, when proxying (typing while somebody else is fronting,) I don't feel like the hand belongs to me. I send signals through them, the words typed out are mine and coming from me, but the fronter still experiences the hands as if the hands belong to the fronter. I experience a locational efferent attachment (sending motor signals) and afferent detachment (an absence of sensor signals) to the hands, while the fronter may experience afferent attachment and efferent detachment to the hands. This can also be considered a form of Unattuned Locational Possession of the hands.

Breaking it down!

Full body Attachment and Detachment:

"I'm in complete control of the body, everything that happens to it is happening to me."

Full Fronting (full body efferent and afferent attachment.)

"I'm in control but everything feels like it's happening to someone else, as if I'm outside the body."

Complete Unattuned Possession (full body efferent attachment and afferent detachment.)

"I can feel everything but it's as if someone else is controlling my actions and making me act things out."

Complete non-possessive Attunement (full body efferent detachment and afferent attachment.)

"I'm a spectator watching while someone else controls my body. Everything that happens is happening to them and I just exist in the background."

Complete Detachment (full body efferent and afferent detachment.)

Partial Attachment and Detachment:

"I have total control over this limb, and feel through it as if it's mine."

Partial Attuned Possession (localized efferent and afferent attachment.)

"I can control this limb but I feel like it's someone else's and don't feel these sensations are happening to me."

Partial Unattuned Possession.(localized efferent attachment and afferent detachment.)

"I can feel through this part of the body as if it's mine, but I have no control over it."

Partial non-possessive Attunement (localized efferent detachment and afferent attachment.)

"I can't control this limb and I feel like it belongs to someone else."

Partial Detachment (localized efferent and afferent detachment.)

Things to consider...

While writing this, there were some experiences that were hard to categorize. This is especially true of unconscious reactions. If you tickle a headmate's mindform who is co-con but not fronting, and their reaction causes the body to jolt, do these sorts of automatic and unconscious reactions constitute a form of Efferent Attachment?

This model is still not comprehensive. But I believe it's a good starting place for understanding fronting experiences.

I forgot to share this on the right day but still important anniversary.

This statement makes sense to me. Quite frankly, my issue with the posts in question, except for one case where your blaming pro-endos for stuff that I know the pro-endo community helped the previous primary fronter unlearn after she learnt it from certain anti-endos claiming relevant trauma, is that they cap off with, or otherwise include, typically in essence, “QED endos aren’t real”.

Also, thanks for the reminder that now that we’re properly active we probably should at least have non-anon asks on? Yeah. Not that the others are active much, but...

The only thing here I’m willing to contend is the “not a comparable experience”. Irregardless of deeper dissimilarities, the experiences are similar enough that people who would wind up deciding their Endogenic are decently likely to run into Traumagenic communities and vise-versa, and there’s no real way to stop that beyond having a shared community on the surface level built to filter people to the relevant community via private links - which is the cited reason that when the non-disordered systems community tried to split off its terms wound up in the disordered systems community. (Its also the cited reason that both sometimes wander into tulpamancy spaces, though I’m told that tends to resolve a bit quicker - and tulpamancers get a lot less upset about terminology theft!)

Bluh, IDK how to really shorten that, and its not got real evidence in there, more so stating my opinion.

Anyhow, I had an actual next statement before I thought of that statement and shall now go onto it. While in retrospect I can see how it would be a problem, I had expected DMs. This is because we’ve seen other traumagenic systems attacked by anti-endos on the basis that they can’t be real, and I have what I’m pretty sure is a reasonable level of fear over that, since the system I’m in is *weird*.

@niavirrivain because of the stalking and harassment I'm currently going through, I'm not comfortable responding to the comments and giving out my main. I was going to send you an ask, but you have those turned off, so a post it is.

I am, for all intents and purposes, endo neutral at this point. I don't care what endos are doing in their corner of the internet. My blog and posts at this point specifically discuss sources and myths in regards to the DSM and DID/OSDD. I don't debate the existence of endos anymore, but I do point out that proof of their existence isn't going to come from the DSM, and it's not a comparable experience to DID/OSDD.

Very often this involves an anti endo stance within posts and syscourse. My stance, though, doesn't negate the sources or truth. In other words, just because someone doesn't like my stance, doesn't mean the post about the cultural exclusion (for example) is wrong. Worded from an anti endo standpoint? Yes, but the main point that the exclusion isn't meant for endogenic systems still stands.

Anyone, regardless of stance or origin, is welcome to send me asks about clarifying, explaining, or debunking sources. I encourage people to send me new sources to look at. It's up to you to take that information and make your own informed decision, and it doesn't matter who or what you are, I will help you understand things if you ask.

Chimera

Acrylic on canvas, August 2024

Bocchi of Everything