noideawherethatcamefrom

Latest Posts by noideawherethatcamefrom

arcane the RPG – origin character: Jayce Talis (insp.)

Hallo! Regarding your latest arcane scene analysis: did you see the post (i think it was on x originally) where someone theorised that the split images you can see of jayce in that scene are actually the jayces from alternate timelines? It just makes so much sense and goes with my personal headcanon that we only get to see a fraction of his conversation with the mage (for the purpose of heightened tension) because in their full convo he tells Jayce about what the other versions of him did/didn't do and how it led to the same bad ending. So mage viktor, by observing countless timelines has figured out that it is necessary for jayce to kill viktor then, because he needs to reach the point where his mind gets absorbed and try to break through to him in that moment.

Anyway, sorry for ranting & i love your scene analyses 🙌

(This ask came in response to part 17 of the "Underrated JayVik moments" series.)

I did see that! (...If this is what you're referring to, that is 😅)

I thought it was an interesting catch, definitely - but I gotta be honest, your additions here are far more compelling to me.

I agree that it makes the most sense that what we see is not the full conversation (after all, that would mean their dialogue went straight from "Only you can show me this." to "Send me back!" which would be... very weird). However, somehow I never considered that the omitted parts may have included a line to the effect of "You will want to explain things to him. Don't."

Is it a fully satisfactory explanation, given that we don't get to see or hear any of this? No, not really. But yours is still a better working theory than anything the show gives us, so... what the hell, sure. 😂

(Hm, now that I think about it, while I don't know that I am fully on board with the idea that Jayce's "splitting" is simply him being haunted by literal tethers to alternate timelines, I could definitely see it as symbolic: Haunted, instead, by everything he would rather do than what he knows he is about to do.)

I'm also intrigued by the implication that the timeline mage!Viktor shows Jayce is the one that, in fact, almost succeeded (since everything, down to the position of Jayce's corpse, is more or less the same as it would have been) - with the difference being only that without also sending Ekko to the other timeline, the time rewinder wouldn't be invented and used to buy Jayce another chance to break through to Viktor.

It makes me think that perhaps, the timeline mage!Viktor shows Jayce is not actually his own, original one (which would also explain his vastly different appearance to the Arcane Herald), but instead the latest one. Again - the one that almost succeeded.

Underrated JayVik moments/lines (18/∞)

"I was supposed to die."

(I can NOT get over how absolutely livid he looks.)

I always did wonder what precisely Viktor meant by that.

Because although we are led to believe that the main reason for his ire is that Jayce broke his promise to destroy the HexCore, not only would this line be entirely unnecessary for that, but this is the line that sees the focus fully on Viktor's delivery and expression (whereas his comment on Jayce's broken promise is instead "shot" from behind, with the focus falling squarely on Jayce's reaction).

All this - and adding to it how inherently striking a statement it is to tell someone you were supposed to die in the first place - goes to put a much heavier emphasis on this line over the other one, really. But why?

I believe it is because (though their parting was likely already inevitable at this point due to additional factors such as the HexTech weapons) it is in fact a crucial part of what informs Viktor and Jayce's disconnect in this scene. As I see it, one of the various ways Jayce goes wrong here is in dwelling on the HexCore and interpreting Viktor's disapproval as solely targeting Jayce's failure to "cling to principle", when the scene direction already told us he was supposed to have paid closer attention to the line above instead.

So, since the show insists - let's unpack this, I guess.

To me, the key to understanding is the question I posed in the very beginning; the question of which of Viktor's two possible deaths this line is actually referring to - his prognosed death by disease or his de facto death in the explosion (neither of which Jayce was "supposed to" avert by using the HexCore). And after some consideration, I think the answer is this:

It makes precious little difference to Viktor - and a world of difference to Jayce.

Let's take a look at the situation from their respective points of view:

"Promise. Me."

When Viktor made Jayce promise to destroy the HexCore, it's not like he wanted to die (even his suicide attempt was more of a bid to escape his guilt and despair than a death wish), but he was coming to terms with the inevitability of it. He may not know that he has only hours left to live here, but at this point, what's the difference really?

And then, something extraordinary happens:

While we don't get to see it, it is heavily implied - both by the way Viktor saying "We have to make it right" is played over the image of Silco reading Jayce's request for parley, and of course, by how he and Jayce end up presenting it to the council together - that this negotiation for peace with Zaun is a joint endeavour.

After all of the lonely struggles Viktor fought over the course of acts 2 and 3, he spends his final day working united with Jayce the way they used to be, and his final moments seeing his people be granted independence through his and Jayce's own efforts.

With him dying - or at least being knocked unconscious - instantly in the explosion, this was the "roll credits" moment of Viktor's life, and he would never have to learn how everything went to shit.

If your death was inescapable anyway - what moment could have been more beautiful to leave the stage?

...Only to wake up in a body horror nightmare, standing less than human before the person you needed to trust more than anything having broken his promise to let you die on your own terms.

"I was supposed to die." - Why did you put me back here just because you could?

"Okay... Okay. I promise."

When Jayce promises to destroy the HexCore, he doesn't want to, but he would hate to deny Viktor's plea even more. And I do genuinely believe he would have gone through with it, too.

However, imagine how exactly Jayce is interpreting what is being asked of him in this moment. To a staunch optimist like Jayce, while a devastating blow, this is not the end of all hope. This is not a DNR.

In a way, it is merely a "back to square one" - the prospect of spending however many months remain working urgently to find a different solution, perhaps. But more importantly:

It is the solace of still having those months.

(If nothing else, then just to prepare emotionally. As someone who lost her father to illness young, believe you me when I say that having the time to prepare for what's coming is invaluable.)

Jayce is not imagining the death he is unwittingly promising Viktor here to be a sudden, frantic thing. Bloodied and dirt-streaked amidst rubble and smoke, his body cast aside and broken against stone like another piece of furniture that happened to stand in the way of the blast.

Jayce is not imagining ever looking at Viktor's corpse in a state that suggests he never mattered at all.

And Jayce - no matter what Viktor thinks his promise should entail - did most definitely not promise to be able to keep his head cool and his heart detached in a situation so far removed from anything he was ever expecting to handle when he gave it.

"I never asked for this!" - It was never fair of you to ask me for this!

Speaking of fair: that's another thing I want to touch on real quick.

Because even though Viktor acts like it should have been a matter of course for Jayce to accept Viktor's death, I have often wondered what Viktor wouldn't have been willing to do if their roles were reversed; if it was Jayce caught in the blast instead. (After all, Viktor knows he is a doomed man, but not Jayce. That's not how it's supposed to go.)

Now, I don't know that he would have gone full Singed, but luckily, we don't have to know. The show tells us exactly what Viktor would do to save Jayce's life, over and over again if need be.

Forget breaking a promise - how about breaking the very fabric of time and space itself? I know we often talk about Viktor as being the one "doomed by the narrative", and while that is true, make no mistake:

For whatever it's worth, Jayce was "supposed to die" too.

If not in the snow storm, then perhaps by his own hand, or through the Glorious Evolution. All of which Viktor simply... refuses to let happen, cosmic integrity be damned.

Long story short: In Jayce's defence, your Honour - Viktor is equally unwell about him.

Additional thoughts I didn't know how to include:

The idea for this entry is very closely tied to this video edit I made (although in a classic "chicken or egg" situation, I wouldn't be able to say which inspired which first), so if for some reason you'd like to see these themes put in a music video format - there you go.

For more on "Jayce is the one doomed by the narrative", please do read this meta by @zecroswe. While I don't agree on every detail, I absolutely see the vision and highly recommend giving it a read.

I've been wanting to expand on Jayce's POV on the necromancy thing ever since part 2 (where I said Viktor "knows that Jayce broke his promise to destroy the HexCore, but not of the wide-eyed desparation with which he scrambled for any way at all to save Viktor"). On that post, @luciansuir made a comment that I really want to include here because they kinda nailed some of my thoughts all the way back then:

Jayce fumbled so bad that he pulled excuses like “maybe the HexCore wasn’t so bad, maybe Heimer was wrong” Man how was that ever about the features of HexCore? Of course Viktor was convinced that you experimented with his death and treated him as a sample. Just tell the truth that you were so desperate and couldn’t bear the thought of losing him

Part 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/7½/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20

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Oh.

Underrated JayVik moments/lines (16/∞)

"I suppose your legacy has been well-secured."

How is this a JayVik line? At first and even second glance it isn't, but bear with me for a moment.

What this line does do initially - seeing as it's said in response to Heimerdinger stating he never contemplates his own death - is tell us how important the idea of "legacy", of leaving something good behind to be remembered by, is to Viktor.

This is not a novel idea; I've seen multiple posts talking about the tragedy that is Viktor, in the end, leaving no legacy at all (if he's lucky, that is - otherwise there would only be the tale of that one time a metal maniac threatened to end all of humanity) because all of his accomplishments and good intentions vanish with him and Jayce.

And yes, that sure is one - very bleak - way to look at it.

However, fortunately that's not all there is to his story.

Because if you think about it for a moment - think about Viktor's motivations throughout the show -, there are two additional driving forces that contribute to this desire to leave a legacy, apart from his desire to help and his strong moral compass:

Loneliness and a damaged self-image.

People suffering from both often end up believing they will only ever be as good, as desirable, as lovable as the good they do for others. They wish to be remembered in death because they can't imagine feeling treasured in life.

I think for someone like Viktor - having placed all of his capacity to make a difference in the world on his "gifted mind" rather than his value as a person -, to be loved unconditionally for who he is may have been so grand an idea that changing the world honestly seemed more attainable to him.

Yet as I pointed out in part 4, even after ostensibly achieving what he thought he wanted in the commune ("an immaculate physique, community, the ability to help people and 'make the world a better place' - a perfect legacy"), from the way he speaks to Jayce and goes on to think and act after facing rejection by him, you absolutely get the sense that there is something vital missing from the picture here.

And it's scarcely even new information at that point, really, as we already learned this a lot earlier by how - when faced with the loss of both love and legacy - it wasn't the threat of losing legacy which Viktor's mind got stuck on:

"Jayce will understand."

It's almost as if... oh I don't know, as if Viktor had thought what he wanted was to bring magic to the world, but ultimately...

Oh.

"I thought I wanted us to give magic to the world... Now, all I want is my partner back."

Jayce, same as Viktor, had big dreams of making a difference in the world since childhood, which - while definitely also driven by a strong desire to help people - is proven here to be equally rooted in the very elementary human desire to connect with someone. For someone to understand him and share his dreams ("our HexTech dream").

He found, and was found by, that someone in Viktor. The fact that the very catalyst of Jayce's dreams - the mage - turns out to also literally have been Viktor all along only serves to emphasise this point.

And here, at the end of everything they've endured, Jayce concludes that maybe, to love and to be loved in kind can be enough. Can be everything. Can be all he wants.

I like to believe that Viktor came to that same realisation about himself in those final moments of perfect connection they shared.

Part 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/7½/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20

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Underrated JayVik moments/lines (11/∞)

[The crystal being set on the inside of Jayce's wrist.]

...as opposed to the outside, where you'd normally expect to see the jewel of a wristband like this. It's a simple fact that still carries so much weight:

Of course, one thing it signifies is simply how it's not for show, not an adornment, but instead something deeply personal to Jayce.

Beyond that, however, there is just something so symbolic about keeping a memento directly on top of your veins like this. Where you might feel for a pulse, or - you know - cut in order to end your life (Jayce's suicide attempt just so happens to be the only time he takes it off, too - he doesn't even take it off during sex).

And while it's not something I noticed consciously for the longest time, everytime Jayce rubs his thumb over the crystal, as he so often does... he is inadvertently also baring his wrist and tracing his lifeblood; his heart, his "whole life".

Jayce is quite literally carrying the stone, the beauty and the dreams it represents cased in gold and close to his heart.

And I don't know about you, but I can just never get over how - even though he won't know it for many years - what this gem really is at the end of the day, is the bond Jayce shares with Viktor across time and space made manifest. Given to him by Viktor in order to set them on their path to each other.

At which point, when Jayce does find out, it is then fully embedded into his body and his very essence; to be - at long last - dug out of his veins, gifted to and shared with his own Viktor during their final moments.

I don't know, man... the layers of symbolism with these two sometimes actually makes it more difficult to write these posts because there is just so much to consider. For instance, in this topic alone we have:

The crystal representing the mage who saved him,

who is also Viktor,

but also representing Jayce's dreams of bringing the magic that the mage i.e. Viktor brought to his life to the world,

those dreams being Jayce's "whole life"

and something of which he is immediately eager to share ownership with Viktor

after Viktor validated those dreams by returning the wristband to Jayce,

being the only other person to have held said wristband,

which in itself is again a symbol of their bond,

and -

You see the issue here? I feel like I can never truly get to the bottom of every facet I want to talk about in any of these posts (while still remaining coherent, that is).

Then again, I guess all that really means is that you are cordially invited to dig deeper if you wish to.

Part 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12

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Underrated JayVik moments/lines (8/∞)

"I've come with Viktor; my partner and a Zaunite."

Finally the hypeman Viktor deserved.

Jokes aside, this line is one of the reasons I started making this series in the first place. Specifically the "Zaunite" part of it.

Why? Because not only has Jayce up until this point always referred to just "people from the Undercity"... I feel like he never even fully acknowledged that Viktor was one of them, either.

Or rather: that Zaun was still a part of Viktor.

Sure, Viktor essentially introduces himself to Jayce as a "cripple from the Undercity" and often enough states his wish to help the people there, but I believe this likely struck Jayce as gracious - same as it was for him - rather than personal.

After all, Viktor had successfully escaped the Undercity, right? He more than deserved his place in Piltover, right?

Jayce never thought less of Viktor for being a Zaunite, but that doesn't mean he respected his heritage. (The biggest indication of which, of course, being their infamous argument on the bridge. When Jayce says "They're dangerous!" he absolutely means it as a them, not a you.)

Yet here, he finally acknowledges and demonstrates respect for Viktor's heritage as a fully integral part of who he is - a boon, even, rather than a misfortune - and gives him the floor for this crucial moment of the proposal.

Speaking of: it's a pivotal gesture not only in terms of Jayce recognising Viktor as a Zaunite. I want to draw attention to this moment in episode 4 real quick:

(I LOVE how this is a perfect mirror image to the scene above.)

Here, Jayce is keeping Viktor from speaking even one word in front of the council. To protect him, to take full responsibility, to do the right thing... to do everything except take into consideration what Viktor might have even wanted to say.

He means well, of course he does - but it will take him until the season finale to realise that what marginalised people need is not for someone to protect them or govern them or speak for them.

It's for their voice to be heard.

In conclusion: not only is the scene as a whole the perfect culmination of Jayce's character arc in season 1, but this line in particular proves how it would have also served as the perfect starting point for a mended - and while more jaded, way stronger - JayVik bond if things hadn't gone south again immediately.

I know Viktor will later say "our paths diverged long ago", but even though that is true looking back from that particular moment in time, I've always loved how in reality, they did, just for one day, fully find their way back to each other in this season finale.

Part 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/7½/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20

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Whoa. Aside from all the brilliant points this post makes, it also fully convinced me that Jayce is an enneagram Nine.

Deep Dive:

Jayce vs. Romance

(Or, Part 7½ of the "Underrated JayVik" meta series.)

I did say all the way back in part 7 that I might write a separate post about my perception of Jayce when it comes to romantic relationships, so that's what this is.

Obviously, this character-read is very informed by the notion of JayVik being a thing - because, y'know, so is my read of the show - so to start with, we'll have to take the following things for granted for the sake of argument:

Jayce is not straight (I'm not opposed to the idea of a cosmic love which transcends gender, I just don't think it has to be "only" that - we can have both you know)

Jayce's feelings for Viktor, at least by the end of the show, are romantic in nature and Jayce is aware of it (how him and those feelings get there is one topic of this meta)

I will extrapolate a lot from how Jayce behaves in his relationship with Mel, seeing as there are very limited points of reference otherwise

All of this is a personal hypothesis, not a claim to truth

And, if at any point you get the impression I'm talking about a character who might be on the spectrum here, I'm not saying that, but I'm not not saying that iykyk

Now, with all that out of the way:

1. Let me first tell you the story of a nerdy kid

Born into a lower House of toolmakers in the elite part of the city, this young man attends the prestigious academy as - essentially - "the poorest rich kid", where his only friend just might be the teenage daughter of his high-society patrons (who, by the way, are the only other people he will think to turn to outside of his family before deciding to end his life).

He's both a handy and a cerebral guy who has spent most of his life in single-minded pursuit of an outlandish (and also... quite illegal) idea. Everything in his life revolves around it; he hangs tapestries of magicians on his walls and fills his windowsill with interesting crystals he found. He travels to deserts and conducts covert research with dubious equipment, all in hopes of making his singular dream a reality.

So, if his lower status or the weird vibes of his hyperfixation didn't make him a loner, then the necessary secrecy surrounding his special interest certainly would.

(...At the same time, however, he just so happens to also be tall, built, conventionally attractive and carry himself with confidence - so when we as the audience first meet him, we kinda assume that he would be a popular person who has it all, though only because we're conditioned to assume so of people who, well, are like that. Also, the show does a clever thing by first introducing him to us bantering with a pretty girl who appears impressed by him, before we learn of their sibling-like relationship.)

Now, why do I say all of this when it has nothing much to do with romance?

Because this is the boy Jayce never stopped seeing in himself.

A nerd always tinkering away on his model railways in the basement by himself, essentially. He doesn't lack self-esteem necessarily; he is comfortable with who he is and confident in his cause, but he does rather see himself as the odd one out.

Even as the show goes on, despite his charm, his looks, his eloquence and talent for public speaking, I don't feel like Jayce ever truly realises the power and the appeal of him. He knows it tends to "work" whenever he takes the floor (and he is absolutely thrilled with the positive response), but I feel like it's a skill he steps into like a pair of dress shoes, more so than something he views as an innate part of who he is.

2. Boy meets girl - and boy (in one night!)

✨Pop quiz!✨

What happens when the guy who considers himself the least eligible bachelor in the room meets the two - in his eyes - coolest, sharpest, most capable and most admirable people he's ever seen?

(Or more importantly, when those same people express an interest in him and the singular thing his whole life revolves around?)

Well, essentially this:

Sorry, wrong image.

This:

This leads me to headcanon #1 regarding Jayce's relationships with other people:

Anytime any person Jayce looks up to tells him he's a good boy so much as gives him the time of day, he is thrilled.

3. So about that windfall...

Irrespective of all of what I just said though, Jayce also strikes me as a guy who... while definitely not uninterested in having a romantic relationship, doesn't ever actively go for people in a romantic way (or physical, for that matter).

And y'know, case in point is really just how my girl did all of that

yet not only is Mel still required to close the entire gap all by herself in the end, but even in moments where Jayce might recognise her flirtation, you just never see any gears turning in his head like "maybe I should do something about this".

(I remember actually laughing out loud when in episode 4, Mel sways her hips at Jayce asking "To what do I owe the pleasure~?", and for a moment, as Jayce hesitates, I obviously assumed he would pick up on the suggestiveness in some way - if only as recognition on his face -, only for him to go "It's Heimerdinger..." Like, literally the least sexy thing to possibly say in that moment. 😂)

This is why I previously described Jayce as a guy to just kind of... roll with the punches in situations like that.

Though less flatteringly, in conversation I have also likened him to the specific breed of man in real life who "seem content to let themselves be picked up like windfall" - not particularly choosey about who gets to do so and instead opting mostly for the path of least resistance, romance-wise.

Which brings us to headcanon #2:

Jayce - while a highly emotional person who is not afraid to show it - doesn't tend to consciously concern himself with and think about his feelings, what they mean, or where his romantic interests lie, really. He's mostly just along for the ride.

4. By God it's Mel Medarda with a steel chair..!

Now, what do you get when you combine these factors into one character?

Well in this specific case, you get Jayce Talis who - when one of the most capable and admirable people he knows decides, for some reason, that she wants a piece of him - is more than happy to oblige and be with an amazing person. He's just thrilled to be there, basically.

Congrats, Mel - you've managed to push through Jayce's complete lack of response to your advances and unlocked his rare "love-starved boyfriend" skin as a reward!

...So what about Viktor, then?

Well.

He didn't.

As I mentioned in the original post as well, my personal JayVik pet theory is such that "if at any point during their partnership Viktor had made a move first, I do believe Jayce would have put up the equal amount of resistance he did with Mel, so... zero."

(And when I say "move" I mean MOVE - again, nothing short of a smacker or outright love confession would have been enough to spark Jayce into action yet at that point.)

If we're taking the idea that Jayce is "not straight" for granted (which we are), then looking at both Mel and Viktor through Jayce's eyes, I honestly don't believe Mel ever had that much over Viktor in terms of being a viable romantic option - other than the simple fact that she is the one who claimed that spot.

Or, as @glassvines wrote in response to the original post: "Viktor had all the cards...but none of the confidence".

5. Now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done

So yeah, that's tragic and all, but then how do we get to this point?

"Now, all I want... is you."

(Oh hush, don't pretend this is not what that line actually means.)

Point being, if Jayce - while he might not have refused Viktor and may have been equally happy to "oblige" - never consciously considered his own desires and wouldn't have actively pursued a relationship not explicitly handed to him... then what happened for him to end up here, dishing out banger after banger of quotable love confessions which contain the clear message of "I have made my choice, and it's you"?

...Well, in a way I sorta gave it away with the very first image of this post, didn't I.

Oh, what a timeout in the naughty corner can do to set a guy's priorities straight...

With Jayce spending weeks in stark isolation at the bottom of a ravine in the most extreme allegory of "getting locked in a room with someone until you talk it out" (except the guy you're locked in with is you), this proves to be an absolutely crucial time of introspection for him in a multitude of ways.

It's where he faces the wrong turns he took, realises that Heimerdinger was always right about the Arcane's corruption, and recognises the ways in which Mel had used and manipulated him.

It's also where he finally realises what - who - was most important to him all along, and in what way.

(The first three, you can glean from the voice lines played over the scene by the way, in case you're wondering.

So is that last bit just me making stuff up, then? No - it's an interpretation for sure, but not a fabrication. See, the shot of Mel's image burning away before Jayce and giving way to Viktor's instead is not only interesting for drawing yet another parallel between them, but also for being a shot that is otherwise out of place with the voice lines. For instance, there are several lines from Heimerdinger, yet Jayce doesn't envision him; there are none from Viktor - a striking absence in and of itself -, yet he does appear.

If nothing else, what this tells us is that this shot is - mostly - detached from Jayce's other epiphanies that I specified above. At which point, if you then take the shot by itself and purely at face value, it does become a... surprisingly candid symbolism really, if you ask me.)

To be clear though: The preference was always there.

After all, Jayce had previously already recognised that his place had always been with Viktor. Also he did dip out of Mel's bed to go see Viktor before he could have even known Viktor was sick that one time, so...

He just hadn't really thought about what that meant.

But lo and behold, it only took a stint in boyfailure jail for Jayce to consciously come to the realisation of not only that, but also that he is, in fact, not content to be windfall about whom he pledges his love and loyalty to anymore.

He wants to close the gap this time.

And to think: all of that even before he learned that Viktor was also the cause of his lifelong special interest in the first place like whaaaat. Imagine the day he must be having...

Jokes aside though; obviously, there is something to be said about Jayce meeting mage!Viktor and finally understanding - as I pointed out in part 13 - just how much Viktor truly needs him, and this perhaps being the final piece of the puzzle for Jayce to realise his priorities as well.

It would have made this post even longer though, and not even added very much, since I do believe multiple things can be true at once here.

Part 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/7½/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20

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Underrated JayVik moments/lines (6/∞)

"It's not a theory..!"

Or well, technically, what I want to highlight here is the chronology of 3 different lines - notice something?

Viktor: "I wanted to talk about your work... this HexTech theory of yours."

Jayce: "It's not a theory..! I've seen with my own eyes what magic can do, the lives it could save. You've no idea how beautiful it is."

Viktor, later: "This HexTech dream of yours has the potential to do that."

It's no coincidence that the wording around it is identical, with the difference being that Viktor immediately caught on and understood what the idea of HexTech truly meant to Jayce.

No wonder then, really, that Jayce promptly stared like Viktor hung the moon and decided right then and there that this was theirs, now.

(By the way: by virtue or vice of being a series about underrated moments, I don't think I in good conscience will be able to make one singular separate post about the line "Our HexTech dream." - however I will get creative and use lines that connect back to it, don't worry.)

Part 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/7½/8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20

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Underrated JayVik moments/lines (2/∞)

"For what?"

(Previous line by Jayce: "I need to get ready.")

Ugh, if only the gays could communicate.

In this scene, Heimerdinger has threatened - sworn - to have the HexCore destroyed "one way or another". Since they are running out of time to find ways to save Viktor at this point and the HexCore appears to be the only viable option, Jayce immediately resolves - however conflicted about it he feels - to go up against his revered mentor by having him voted off the council. For Viktor.

However: from Jayce's quieting footsteps as Viktor asks "For what?", we can tell that Jayce didn't stick around to tell Viktor of his intentions.

If ever there was a moment that perfectly encapsulates how Viktor never gets to see the full picture of Jayce, the full scope of his decisionmaking... it would be this one.

For all the times Viktor feels betrayed and abandoned by Jayce (and rightfully so), he equally often doesn't get to witness all the other actions/decisions that show how ultimately, Jayce will always put him first.

He sees Jayce looking starstruck by Mel, but didn't see him looking at Viktor the exact same way only hours prior.

He is aware of Jayce leaving him to his own devices at the lab, but not of how Jayce fled Mel's bed to come see him before he could have even known Viktor was sick.

He hears Jayce speak disparagingly about the Undercity only after worrying about Viktor and where he had disappeared to for days.

He knows that Jayce broke his promise to destroy the HexCore, but not of the wide-eyed desparation with which he scrambled for any way at all to save Viktor.

He notices the blueprints for HexTech weapons, but wasn't there for the attack on the memorial service.

And of course, he has Jayce attacking him multiple times, but can't see how much Jayce is fighting himself tooth and nail every step of the way to do it.

In the end, it literally takes Jayce forfeiting his entire existence for the chance to stay by Viktor's side for Viktor to finally realise all the things he never saw.

(Disclaimer: none of this is to say that Jayce's decisions were all good or justified - gods no - only that it's more complicated than that. Nuance, my beloved.)

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Every single time Jayce allows himself to yearn out loud or even think of longing feelings for Viktor, he feels the painful pull from AU Mage Viktor. Reminding him of his mission. How he can’t fail… again. As much as he wants to give in… as much as he wants to fall to his knees just like AU Jayce. To hold his partner… he has to remember.

Be right back… *lets out muffled sob*

A nice little detail I noticed tonight.

They bar the door with Viktor’s cane, so when the Enforcers break in, the cane breaks too.

And then the next thing we see is Viktor floating, with his amazed smile, his childlike wonder.

There’s this sweet, almost bittersweet implication that he’s transcended his body, just for a moment.

He won’t feel so free in his body again for years, until he drops his crutch and runs on the docks.

The ways that their partnership is imprinted on his body, and the stages of it reflected through his body—how he finds freedom and joy that first night; how he’s wasting away during the period when Jayce’s attention was elsewhere; how Jayce reconstructs him through love and it’s too much for him to take; how Jayce’s body comes to mirror his; how they’re both bodiless in the end, and free, like it’s taken them years of suffering to reach the purity of that first free moment again—will always be so moving to me.

Arcane is a story written on Viktor’s body.

I am always so distracted by...other things in the Council chamber fight scene that I forget they're having a post-breakup couple spat the whole time and the dialogue and interactions from that part of the scene are also unhinged.

[Ok clearly you're mad at me because the last time we crossed paths you fucking SHOT ME, which was very rude, but if you'll just give me a minute here--]

[Hey honey remember our first date when we did breaking and entering together?? Remember how helpful it was to have me around then?]

SUCH a fucking. Ex shows up on your doorstep after you've already changed the locks line.

I think this is actually Viktor apologizing for being mad at Jayce for using the Hexcore to bring him back. The full line is: This chain of events started with you [doing a Hexcore necromancy on me]. In my confusion, I was unable to reconcile this. [I was mad at you at first.] But now I understand. The Glorious Evolution is destined. [But now I see this led me to my true purpose in life so thanks babe!]

You really need to watch this at half speed or slower to appreciate how fucking flirty Viktor's little series of expressions is. Also someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is the only time Viktor calls Jayce his partner? Every other time it comes from Jayce.

The change in expression after "my partner died in this room" always kills me.

Right after Mel (orange cloud frame right) interrupts the strangle sesh. Note that the full blast murder look is directed at Jayce. Really?? Her?? Still??? [doesn't know they broke up immediately before this]

Still so genuinely shocked and hurt to get shot by Jayce AGAIN.

When you get rejected so hard your astral form changes from Light Mode to Dark Mode. :-/

hello, I would like to subscribe to the church of Viktor's pouts

Viktor's focused pouts - 2/?

Viktor was always afraid of becoming like Rio and Orianna, neither living nor dead, kept in glass by someone who would not let him die because he was loved too much. Jayce basically did just that to him.

How has this parallel never occur to me before? Viktor walking away was completely understandable before but this, this is just so sad...

Viktor being an apprentice for Singed longer than Arcane shows us really makes parts of his character deliciously more painful.

Viktor allows augmentations to his body, but never replaces anything despite the advanced prosthetics we see.

-> because Singed replaced Orianna’s arms and legs, and Viktor feared becoming her.

Viktor never uses Shimmer until he is absolutely desperate, though we see he could have access to it in Piltover a la Salo (or just by going to Singed earlier).

-> Viktor knows Shimmer was supposed to be a medicine because he’s the adopted son of the man who made it. He watches Shimmer, something he might have even helped with in its earliest stages as a teenager, become a drug that ravages Zaun.

-> The first person he “heals” is a Shimmer addict.

Viktor leaves after Jayce rescued him with the Hexcore.

-> Viktor was always afraid of becoming like Rio and Orianna, neither living nor dead, kept in glass by someone who would not let him die because he was loved too much. Jayce basically did just that to him.

Singed convinces Ambessa to let him talk to Viktor. He notices Viktor is fading and offers his creature up to heal him. He doesn’t actually do it until Viktor lets him.

Meanwhike, Viktor knows where one of the worst villains of the Undercity is. The reason Shimmer is flooding the Lanes. Viktor has a Councilor best friend and ties to the Enforcers who could root him out. Yet he never breathes a word about his location.

-> Because there is a twisted sort of love between them, a toxic relationship filled with acid, but at its core is a true affection of a father for a son.

Big stronk dude with his fuckass hammer and his stupid shoulder armor waiting on his knees for his eldritch god bf to materialize behind him and oh so tenderly penetrate his brain with his magic fingers

This is one of the sentences ever.

Since everyone is talking about that concept art of Jayce and Viktor fighting, it's useful to know that the concept artist, Suheb Zako, also posted it on their twitter with some context.

It is early concept art for a final fight between Jayce and Viktor in the hexzone sorry I'm not calling it that astral plane. There's a link in the twitter thread to an anime clip that gives you a sense of what the vibe would've been.

It's not totally clear when in the development/production process this art is from, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jayce and Viktor originally had a dynamic that was more like their game counterparts. In that case a knock-down-drag-out fight in the astral plane might've fit better. But in the final version of the show it wouldn't have worked anywhere near as well as what we got, and not just because it would have seemed out of character for what the characters and their relationship arc became in the finished show.

First of all, we already did have a knock-down-drag-out fight between them. That's the Council chamber fight scene. It would've felt like a repeated beat and that's the last thing you want in your big finale. When you have characters who fight each other multiple times, you want each fight to reflect a progression of their relationship.

Secondly, by the end of the show, Viktor is absurdly overpowered compared to any other character. Once he goes full Machine Herald he is basically a god. A conventional fight scene is just not gonna do it here. You need a twist, some way to win that doesn't involve being stronger than him. And the trump card being The Power of Unconditional Love (And Also This Time Machine Getting Chucked at Your Head) fits perfectly with the show's themes.

Thirdly, the final episode is ALL action. In an episode that's one massive battle, it takes a lot of work to make individual pieces of action stand out. (And generally, you do it not by making the fighting look Super Duper Extra Cool, but with character work.) But any scenes between the characters that are not action are automatically gonna pop because they're so different in pacing and energy from everything around them.

I haven't seen as many people discussing this set of keyframes, but the changes here are also fascinating:

Because Viktor assimilating Jayce as a battle move is almost the complete opposite of what we got in the finished show, and what we got in the finished show is so fucking good. It's one of my favorite moments in the whole damn series.

I've already written about it here, but playing it so that Jayce doesn't get surprised or overpowered but chooses to allow Viktor to bring him into the astral plane as a last-ditch effort to reach whatever is left of Viktor's humanity is sooooooo narratively sexy. (And also just. Sexy. Big stronk dude with his fuckass hammer and his stupid shoulder armor waiting on his knees for his eldritch god bf to materialize behind him and oh so tenderly penetrate his brain with his magic fingers, listen I am not making this up this is just what happens, no homoerotic fight scene could ever top this.)

It also fits with the motif of a number of characters winning their individual battles in the finale by surrender/submission/potential self-sacrifice. It fits with Caitlyn realizing that to cut the string of protective runes off Ambessa's arm she has to allow Ambessa to get within stabbing distance of her face. And of course, Jinx forcing Vi to let her go by popping the gemstone out of her gauntlet and letting herself fall with Warwick.

Arcane has fantastic action storytelling and part of good action storytelling is knowing when to have the character stop fighting each other. Seeing the early concept art is cool to see how much things evolved, but I'm glad they moved away from just trying to do an epic boss fight because what we ended up with is so much more interesting.

I fucking adore Jayce okay.

He's kind and caring. He doesn't use his size to intimidate folks even tho he's massive. He's quick to encourage, quick to seek and give comfort. He's so soft and sweet. Genuinely being loved by him would be a blessing.

He's also a big fucking nerd. He's terrified of letting those he loves down. He's earnest, sincere, and a bit naive. He has a bit of an ego and hero complex. He takes his responsibility seriously. He's smart, loyal, and hard working. Personally I find it hot as fuck he got those muscles from manual labor lol.

He's all those things, he's also fucking insane.

He's obsessive.

The reaction he had to Viktor coming out of the hexgoop was not in any way normal.

He was completely uncomfortablely chill with a fucking rock being embedded in his arm.

Pulled a 'babe this isn't you' with a literal god and it worked.

Insane

I fucking love him so much what a dork.

Thank you, this helps so much! I always struggled with visualizing how exactly Viktor looks in 'jellyfish'.

Viktor and Jayce designs based off 'the line is covered in jellyfish' written by @yunuen 🪼🪼 I love this series so much and wanted to give back somehow!

censored nakey versions below

I loved the idea of how their bodies delt physical trauma and entanglement with the arcane, especially Viktor who is now both human and something else entirely.

Please read jellyfish if you haven’t already!! It’s a post-canon fic of Jayce and Viktor trying to survive the tundra as they rediscover themselves and collide into each other’s orbit once again

saving this for later as I can see we have similar tastes <3

This is a post to keep track of my favorite jayvik fanficion since my ao3 bookmarks are a mess and hopefully get some quality recs as well!

Contingency Planning by @oodlyenough murdered me and i liked it so much its concerning.

Chrysalis and Window of Opportunity by @oodlyenough

A New Promise by @dis-embarks did the same, thank you 🥲

A lesson in rigor mortis by @orangechickenpillow still missing my heart after this one.

Here At The End Of All Things by queercatfan

I've Been Thinking of All the Little Things That You've Been Missing by @fouroddapples <3

Pygmalion by @twenty-qs 🩵

here is a map (with your name for a capital) by moonliving just 🥲

Run it back by spqr

be, be as you've always been by enbymegumi

Reflection and refraction series by @tryfero

Tastes like resurrection by @sulkybender 😭

disjunction by @nanashi-07

erosion by @nanashi-07

The Dead of Night by @bringthekaos

White lilies by whiskeyuncle ohmygod😭 destroyed in under 1k words

Crowbar by whiskeyuncle

High Hawk Season by JeanLuciferGohard

Bitter practicality by Kaeviat

Cradle to grave by @weatheredlaw

Switchblade by MmPumpkins

Differential Burdens in Displacement by @yallstar

void by @ironcy

Playlist for When Your Boyfriend Stops Breathing

The Taste Of Rot And Honey by @sunsetplums

I mean I just have to add a bunch of Astral Viktor to this because he's SO expressive

People: Viktor is not externalising his feelings, he's the master of microexpressions

Actually Viktor:

Wait, you're right. I was way too chill abt it too 💀

And this makes so much sense! Bc why would he leave Mel if he had no idea Viktor was dying?

Unpopular opinion: Jayce was way too chill that one day in the lab S1 when Viktor just randomly announced he had a vision.

it's an AU where you get the first phrase your soulmate will tell you written somewhere on your body

with Viktor's first phrase to Jayce it was hilarious

Personally for me it was absolutely not about favoring mlm vs. wlw. This is not simply about representation, it's about the stories. I loved CaitVi in S1 but for me in S2 they completely lacked chemistry and their ending felt unearned.

In Season 1 CaitVi told a beautiful story about two kind-hearted women overcoming their prejudice and seeing the person that was in front of them. I cherished every heartfelt glance between them, especially Vi being touched every time Cait proved to be so much better than most Piltovians and showing compassion towards the people of Zaun.

But then Season 2 came along and I lost all respect for Cait the moment she said "animals" in S2E1. AND THEN she gassed Zaun and became the Fuhrer. Her redemption scenepack (because I'm not calling that an arc) didn't really do it for me. I get what they were going for but I never regained my appreciation for Caityn after everything she's done in S2.

Vi also became way less compelling in S2. She went from being an awesome big sister and one of the main characters in S1 to being basically a device for other characters (Jinx, Cait, Warwick) to have their moments, with a montage of getting drunk in goth makeup and an underdeveloped friendship with Loris sprinkled in for good measure. She also made many out of character choices, the biggest ones being joining the Enforcers and giving up on Jinx and Zaun.

Cait and Vi's first kiss had no chemistry for me. I feel like they weren't really seeing each other in that scene. Vi asked Cait to promise she wouldn't change but Cait has already started to change by then. Cait kissed Vi as a confirmation of that promise even though you can't realistically promise someone that you won't change because it's near impossible.

Their reconcilliation in S2E6 was rushed. We've all seen the jokes that all it took for Cait to do a 180 was to hear Vi say the word "cupcake". And then the sex scene in S2E8 felt unearned and had a very awkward timing. There was so much misunderstanding that they should've addressed first but I guess they just really wanted to boink already. Or rather, the writers wanted them to boink. Even if it was in a prison cell right after Jinx pretty much implied to Vi that she's going to kill herself.

I have many problems with Arcane Season 2's writing and Cait and Vi's storylines are among them. Meanwhile the best thing that happened in that season was Jayce and Viktor's stories. They were very compelling separately (Viktor becoming Jesus and finally being able to help people in Zaun like he always wanted to, only to become lost and possessed by the Hexcore and crossing the line. Jayce seeing the unforseen tragic consequences of his idealism and ambition and coming out on the other side more mature and wanting to amend for the damage he's caused) as well as in relation to each other (Their perspectives clashing in the divorce scene. Them basically switching places and gaining understanding of each other's POV. Every time they hurt each other in any capacity in Episodes 6, 8 and 9 you could see how much pain it brought them. And then their final scene which was just poetic and tied their story perfectly, them sacrificing their lives in each other's arms to save the world from their shared dream that started it all.)

Enjoying a good story and disregarding a poorly-written one has nothing to do with biases.

im a huge jayvik fan and loved their gay ass ending but the way they get SO MUCH MORE TRACTION than the CANONICAL LESBIAN COUPLE at the center of the show is sooooo telling of everyone's biases. it's all talking about how there's not enough lesbian rep until you actually get lesbian rep and fully fucking ignore it to hype up the not even canonical gay ship. like ok !!!

Idk if u guys will agree with me but I feel like Silco is simultaneously very straight and very gay but couldn't be further from giving off bisexual vibes. He occupies two opposite ends of the spectrum but avoiding the middle completely.

This art made me finally understand and put into words my obsession with Silco's design.

His face makes him successfully pull off so many different aesthetics. He's supposed to be kind of ugly, with his chipped teeth and weird (but very kissable) lip shape and hooked nose. But he's also beautiful, with his almond-shaped eyes and slim jaw. Older Silco is simultaneously an elegant, refined gentleman, a DILF if you will, but also a shiver-inducing monstrous villain. And that's already an amazing combo.

But then, Season 2 came out and they gave us younger Silco who's a lanky, introverted but slightly slutty revolutionary twink. How many people/characters can you name that fit so many different boxes so seamlessly? I don't know if the character designers had his younger version already in mind when designing him but I believe if his face was even just slightly different, there would be something off with either version of him.

SCREAMING CRYING I LOVE HIM SO MUCH

What is this hand to waist ratio.

He could wrap them around my throat twice with fingers that size.

Why does everyone assume Vander would be rowdy, fun, cool and lenient parent while Silco would be soft and nurturing but the disciplinarian and overprotective one. Their parenting style is canonically the OPPOSITE to this.

Vander is shown on-screen disciplining his children for going against his rules. He's not particularly strict (I don't think any parents in Zaun are tbh I think children just kinda roam unattended a LOT) but he does have rules and expect them to be followed. He has that Stern Dad voice down to a science. He has that "I'm not mad I'm disappointed also you're grounded" vibe down pat, and he scolds them because he is worried about their safety. This is a man who is taking childrearing seriously. He's also shown being very soft and loving with them. His little smile when he gives Powder juice. How gently he encourages Mylo when he successfully lockpicks the cuffs. He is soft and nurturing. He is protective. He is gentle but authoritative.

Silco meanwhile allows Jinx to do whatever she wants. You can argue he disciplined her when he yelled at her for killing those enforcers but 1- she committed a literal massive terrorist attack that derailed ALL of his plans and he's acting like she stole his car or something and 2- what we see is not the same practiced discipline that we see from Vander. This is not a man who has established a relationship where he is the Parent and she is the Child and must follow his rules. He is emotional, almost childish, acting more like her friend or colleague being pissed off than her dad. He is not protective, he lets her play with bombs and do all sorts of dangerous shit. He cares about her safety, he's obviously distraught when she's hurt, but he cares about her freedom more. He lets her fuck up constantly without repercussions. He lets her dress and act however she wants no matter how poorly it reflects on him because her freedom mattered more to him than anything in the entire world-- more than his own, more than his dream, more than his life, and more than her safety. He also appears a lot stiffer when it comes to expressing affection, even though his love for her is obvious, he lacks Vander's warmth.

This isn't to say Silco would be a worse father or anything, rather that he is objectively the "fun dad" who lets his kids do what they want, has absolutely zero backbone, and isn't as good at expressing affection but makes sure his kids know they are loved by him.

What I'm saying is Vander is so obviously Primary Caregiver and I don't know how people mix the two up.

Just kidding! I do know. It's the classic Forcing Hetero Gender Norms Onto A Gay Couple! You know, because Silco is small and dainty, and small/dainty = woman and woman = mommy and mommy = "does all the parenting work" = nurturing, affectionate, strict and protective.

Meanwhile Vander is a Big Strong Masc Man we know That = "Real Man" (vomit) = father = "gets to be the raucous fun parent and doesn't have to actually do any real parenting" (again vomit)

Why not both? Why couldn't he be an intelligent, ambitious, rave-attending twink with dreams of freedom? Everyone was young once and I'm sure Silco knew how to have fun. Just look what he's done with The Last Drop 😂

And I'm saying this as a person who was a part of a leftist activist group during my country's authoritarian era. We worked hard but we partied even harder.

I can't lie, I hate when people headcanon young silco as some twink, like, he was practically the same person he is now except gentler and more open. Stop making him some rave-hosting, clubbing twink when he's an intelligent, ambitious young man with dreams of freedom 😞

it makes me so insane that even though the undeniably most relevant moment in his character arc was being betrayed by someone, silco still fundamentally trusts people on principle. the system he's built relies entirely on other people doing their part, he relies entirely on other people's loyalty to him. he lets jinx, someone everyone else says is a liability and unpredictable, inject his eye with shimmer, an insanely vulnerable position for him to be putting himself in willingly. he trusts sevika, someone who could easily overpower him physically (much like vander did), to remain loyal to him.

the trust silco places in other people is also indicative of his past role as an activist and a revolutionary, i think. communities are built on trust. movements are dependent on trust. when an entire people work as one, trust is the thing that keeps them together. and even though vander, in silco's mind, betrayed that trust, he still believes in the inherent power of it.

Okay I gotta talk about the Kuleshov Effect for a minute because I see a lot of people talking about how Silco and Vi were looking at each other on the bridge and it's got me scratching at the walls.

The Kuleshov Effect is a film editing effect. It is a mental phenomenon by which viewers derive more meaning from the interaction of two sequential shots than from a single shot in isolation.

In other words, the way a movie or show is edited influences the way you think or feel about it. This kind of subtle manipulation is very powerful and is used throughout film and television to guide the audience's emotional journey and can be used to influence characterization and plot just by putting things in the right order. When people talk about "unintentional implications from the writers" I have noticed several times that the cause of the unintentional implication actually being the editing, not the writing.

On the bridge just before the opening credits of episode 8, we have two perspectives: Vi's perspective and Silco's perspective. Rather than show what Vi's doing in one long sequence, and then switch to Silco's perspective in one long sequence, the editors break these sequences into smaller shots and inter-cut them.

The most common use of intercutting like this is when shooting dialogue: cut to one character, cut to the other. Because of this, to our minds, this sequence looks like they are having a silent conversation, but they aren't. They can't even see each other.

Silco can't see beyond the smog, flood lights, and oncoming parade of enforcers, and it's safe to assume Vi can't see past these obstacles either. They have no way or reason of knowing the other is observing the bridge.

So, now that we know they can't see each other, let's look at what happens if we reorder the clips so these are two distinct sequences rather than one long one.

The sequences on their own are not staged the way a conversation would be staged, because both characters are in the centers of their respective frames.

Vi is looking at the bridge where her childhood friend was about to fight her sister so she could get away. The last thing that happened on the bridge that she knows of is another bomb going off, just one. She doesn't know if Ekko or Jinx are still alive. Maybe she's wondering if she should have stayed instead of leaving Jinx again.

Silco is panicked and caught off guard by his own reaction. He has a moment of emotional vulnerability while his back is turned to his employees and while the enforcers are still too far away to see what's happening on his face. He steels himself before standing up, and faces down the enforcers before walking away.

So, why edit this scene this way? If they can't see each other, why make it look like they can? Specifically because they wanted these characters to have an emotional exchange, but can't, because they are physically too far apart. Vi and Silco only get two scenes together and they only talk directly to each other once. This helps fill in a hole where we want these two to interact, but plot-wise it makes no sense for them to be able to. The editors change the entire meaning of both of these sequences if the emotions on their faces are a conversation.

What I like about this is that it gives you two options for how to interpret this, and both can be true at the same time. You can look at each sequence on its own, and you can look at it the way the editors were manipulating you into seeing it. I do love what they've done here, and I think it's important when analyzing media to know what tools and techniques the creators have used to tell their story and be able to deconstruct their little tricks to inform your interpretation.

Anyway thank you @sweetestsixshooter for reminding me I wanted to write this down lmao

(Part of my Zaunite Viktor AU)

You know that feeling when you accidentally call your teacher or boss mom/dad? Yeah that shit's embarrassing lmao.

Also, what do you think of Powder's fanart? ;)