Some Roles Within DID/OSDD Systems:

RECOVERING PROGRAMMED PARTS

Trigger warning for discussion of RAMCOA and programming. This post will be focused on programmed parts recovering, I will mainly be speaking from my personal experience. If other survivors have more to add on, you are more than welcome to reblog this post and add your experience and advice. First, I want to preface this post by saying that everyone's experience is going to be different. No two systems are the same, the same applies to programmed systems and programmed parts. Recovery for these parts will entirely depend on what they have been programmed to do or believe. Show them kindness. Arguably the most important first step, showing kindness and acceptance to these parts is extremely important. Remember that they do not do these things out of choice, but rather out of trauma and feeling a need to do so. You do not have to condone their behaviors, and you are allowed to feel hurt by them, but you should not take this out on them. They are just as traumatized as any other part in the system. Start slow. There is no rush to recovery. Recovery is also not always linear, and setbacks do not mean you are back at square one. Try encouraging your programmed parts to take small steps outside of their programmed roles, if it is safe to do so. For example, a part who is programmed to be aggressive may be encouraged to do something calming such as going for a walk or listening to some music. Find new jobs for them. In our experience, many programmed parts struggle with the thought of not having a job or "purpose". This may not be the case for your programmed parts, but if you notice this type of thinking, try to help them find jobs that they are comfortable with that benefit the system in current life. For example, a high-ranking internal handler may have a lot of knowledge about the system and could do a good job of keeping track of information about the system in a helpful and healthy way. Help them find themselves. Having a more beneficial job and experiences outside of trauma is a good start, but often helping these parts find more of a sense of identity can help them recover as well, when it is safe for them to do so. For example, many programmed parts in our system are involuntarily assigned a title, choosing a name when they feel ready is incredibly healing for them. There is no rush to do this, and you should not try to force any part who is not ready into doing this, especially if they feel that they may be punished by other parts. Help them question things. Ideally, this should be done with the help of a therapist. Helping these parts question the things they were taught to believe can be incredibly helpful, but it must be done on their own terms, when they feel ready, and very carefully. Please do not try to force beliefs onto them, but rather give them space to question what they were taught on their own terms, when they are ready to do so. My experience. I was a high-ranking internal programmer for quite some time, and a few months ago I started making an attempt to recover. I began speaking to people both inside and outside my system who did not share my role, and because of this I was able to begin questioning some of the things that I had been taught. I am still not completely free of all of my beliefs, but when they do come up, I do my best to remind myself that those are things other people instilled into me as opposed to my own conclusions. The things that have been most helpful in my recovery have been other individuals showing me kindness and acceptance, despite my actions, and the ability to do things on my own terms, when I feel ready. If anyone has anything to add to this, or any questions, feel free to reblog or send us an ask. I will do my best to answer any questions, and I would appreciate any additions to this post, as I think sharing healing information is something that should be done more often. - Adonis

Are there any RAMCOA-exclusive terms the system community needs to be aware of?

I know system hopping, system resets, and shell alters have had their meanings butchered, but then I see some debate about if "sidesystem" is RAMCOA-exclusive (or at least only experienced by RAMCOA survivors), as well as how gatekeeper and polyfragmentation aren't RAMCOA-exclusive but often have their meanings that tie back to that erased.

I... Can't think of any.

Terms being exclusive to RAMCOA¹ is kind of tricky as 1) most people who have gone through RAMCOA have little awareness of it, both in their own memory & not being aware of the terminology and community 2) RAMCOA is a continuum, meaning it's hard to define what is or isn't "enough" to qualify as RAMCOA, and 3) there are few rules as to how a system copes with stress & trauma. Further, a lot of the language around RAMCOA is community-based, or from specific high-control abuser groups; it's just damn hard to track where things come from. I can say though that sidesystem has its roots in the larger community and I know multiple "regular" systems with sidesystems⁠—hell, we were using "sidesystem" before we gained more awareness of our OA⁠— and shells exist in other forms of multiplicity, specifically some OSDD-1a presentations.

System hopping & system resets are weird as well, as they describe phenomena that is related to RAMCOA, and I'd argue really a facet of the control and shutdowns with systems who have survived RAMCOA, but we did not come up with those names at all. System hopping is often used as a threat by abusers (like used in combination with something like twin programming), and resets can be programmed-in "rotations" of fronters, but... They are what the wider plural community called them, and what some survivors have adopted because they're now recognizable terms.

That being said, I do think the community should be more aware of how the history of OSDD & DID is based in the study of RAMCOA. I see so many younger systems now ignore or even mocking the concept of RA, lumping the entire phenomenon in with the Satanic Panic (even though many of us survivors were literally born after that ended), or buying into False Memory Syndrome rhetoric. I've literally seen folks saying "there's no evidence that repressed memories exist" as if we haven't proven that scientifically over and over again. I think it's an issue of folks trying to distance themselves so far from stuff like the Satanic Panic & more modern iterations like Qanon that they leave survivors like me behind. It reeks of respectability politics, and victims are exhausted with the decades of fakeclaiming.

I think we should be less worried about if certain terms are exclusive to RAMCOA survivors and more concerned with actually meaningful support, like looking into the research on it, knowing the history of our fight for recognition and The Memory Wars era (for example: do you know where the RAMCOA acronym comes from? Do you know what the Grey Faction is? Can you recognize how misogyny was weaponized, and how social services were targeted by politicians by using us as a pawn?), and recognizing harmful rhetoric.

(Sorry for the huge dump of text!!!)

¹ For the record, there are certain terms that are exclusive to RAMCOA by means of, well, that being in the definition; programming, for example, is... Obviously RAMCOA specific. However, almost all forms of abuse require some kind of conditioning so saying "conditioning" is RAMCOA exclusive is false. See? It's tricky.

what does nccsa mean?

con contact child sexual abuse, its sexual abuse that didnt involve any touching, examples below

A new OSDD/DID combo cheat for terror/panic attack!

- keeping the eyes open to minimize flooding and switching, looking at an object in the room that was gotten in the last calendar year to ground in the present

- heavy stuffy on the chest

- EMDR bilateral music in headphones

- alternate thumbs rubbing on stuffy

- eventually when able to move more, alternate palms rubbing slowly on stuffy's back

- repeating "of course you're scared, that makes total sense, you can be scared right now and we'll hold you" worked for today

- pat the stuffy, soothe the scared part, slow soft pats like on a baby's bum or back to gentle them

- gradually, sit up/change positions and rock and stim to release the rest of the adrenaline/energy

- eventually did a reorienting exercise to ground in the present

The terror ebbed a lot gentler and sooner than I expected! Very proud and grateful. Love having a stuffy with heavy beads in it.

what is the difference between did, complex did, and highly complex did? where would a small system w a subsystem fall into that?

The differences are usually described as where they fall on the dissociation scale according to the Theory of Structural Dissociation (ToSD). Highly complex DID (HC-DID) does not have any medical recognition as far as I know, I believe it’s mostly a community term to bring survivors of RAMCOA programming together (please correct me if this is wrong). Distinctions in system structure between DID and complex/polyfragmented DID (C-DID or P-DID or PF-DID) have been documented, but literature on complex DID hasn’t been updated since the 1980s if I remember correctly.

Within the community, distinctions are made as follows:

DID is defined as two or more alters and amnesia between parts. This is distinguished from OSDD-1a, which does not include distinct parts, and OSDD-1b, which does not include dissociative amnesia (dissociative amnesia in DID can manifest as gaps in important life events, lapses in memory of recent events or well-learned skills such as driving, and discovery of possessions the patient does not remember owning or purchasing).

C-DID is not so much determined by alter count (as people have claimed it is) than it is determined by the actual structure and features of the system. For example: C-DID is more likely to have a complex and expansive innerworld, complex splitting patterns (splitting multiple alters at once, splitting groups, splitting a few fully formed alters and a group of fragments, etc.), and subsystems (alters with alters). It has also been said that polyfragmentation is a phenomenon that starts with normalized, everyday abuse and trauma before the age of 5.

Developmental Trauma Disorder: We Forget—Our Bodies Remember

Anyone who has intimately experienced the current state of psychiatry in the US (notably child psychiatry) can attest to its inefficiency and its potential to do more harm than good. Patients are often issued sets of conflicting diagnoses; BPD, bipolar disorder, PTSD, ADHD and ect. Many of them fail to clarify the true nature of the problem and those who do receive treatment beyond being handed a prescription don’t seem to gain anything from it. Well, guess what?

TIL that in 2009, after years of prospective studies and a letter of support written by mental health commissioners from across the US, the National Child Traumatic Stress Network sent in a formal proposition for Developmental Trauma Disorder to the APA (American Psychiatric Association) to be included in the DSM-V. And guess what? 

It was denied. Just as it took all the way until 1980 to have PTSD accepted as a diagnosis in the wake of a generation of war-time trauma, so too is the notion that dysfunctional responses are the natural consequence of issues occurring during the span of childhood and adolescent development. The APA responded by saying that “no new diagnosis was required to fill a ‘missing diagnostic niche.’” This is of course, in the face of a hard numbers: that one-million children are abused and neglected every year in the US.

There is an incredible amount of evidence to suggest that not only is Childhood Developmental Trauma a Thing, but that without having a proper diagnosis to work from, clinical professionals are finding themselves woefully inept at making any progress with their patients. So you know, if you feel like you’re just “fucked up” and you’re convinced that you were born that way, maybe this can be your first step to realizing that no—you’re not “just” anything. If you were raised in a consistently dysfunctional household, all available research suggests your body internalized that, became hyperaware of threat and caused you to develop accordingly.

You did nothing wrong—it was and continues to be the adults in your life that fail you. You have done nothing but respond to your circumstances in the only way your body knows how.

For those interested in learning more about this, I urge you to read The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk and to look into the research done by Kolk, Perry and other professionals on DTD. Warning to survivors: the book pulls no punches and such, can be very triggering. Tumblr no longer tags anything that includes external links, so I ask that you send me a reply or a message in the event you’d like some actual materials.

Note: I am not a professional in this field, so I urge people with actual credentials to elaborate, because I know ya’ll are out there and you’re just as mad about this shit as I am.

I did not just see an endogenic system coining terms for "programmed headmates" as in the realms of computers. You do not just say shit like that lightly. You do not understand the kind of harm that does to programmed systems like us. Please please please don't do things like this.

You are literally describing RAMCOA experiences. You are adding more harm and confusion to survivors like us. This has nothing to do with you being endogenic it has everything to do with how this is harmful to RAMCOA systems. I understand the system travel should make it clear it's not about DID- but honestly if you have actual programming something is very wrong. If you have internal programmers you are not endogenic- you are likely a RAMCOA survivor. Please please do not refuse to look into mental health aid and treatment. Please do not engage in this. It is dangerous.

Please you do not understand how desperate I am for people to listen to this- you are describing effects of mind control on systems.

Things we as a RAMCOA survivor want non-survivors to know

This is going to be emotional but this has also been a long time coming. Most of our 34 drafts on this account have been on this topic and today something happened that was just the last straw for us. If you are not a survivor sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. It's our turn now. You are privileged comparatively on this regard- whether you like it or not.

Do not silence RAMCOA survivors in favor of people with "false memories"

I have no idea why this is something that needs to be said because you would assume it would be common decency but apparently a lot of non-RAMCOA survivors seem to be completely unaware of how fucked up it is to say.

Not only has false memory syndrome been thoroughly debunked- but the only time someone has anything close is when they have a disorder that makes them prone to delusions. In which case that is a delusion. Stop blaming survivors who are working to recover and possibly save the lives of others who currently as you read this are actively being tortured, for a disorder that most people are born with and has literally nothing to do with us. Stop using "some people have delusions" as a backhanded way to harm RAMCOA survivors.

I am sick and tired of people making it clear they care far more about people with "false memories" than they do for real torture survivors.

Do not tell a RAMCOA survivor to their face you have had false memories of the torture they actively endured. It is incredibly insensitive and is a mockery of the torture they experienced.

And if one more "person" makes the claim that RAMCOA survivors talking about our experiences, the things that were done to us and others, is putting people with a disorder we didn't cause in danger- I will snap. We didn't give anyone a disorder- we didn't manifest your fucking delusions. You can work through your delusions in therapy- we have physical and mental injuries that will never fully heal from our REAL experience. It is such a disgusting and selfish thing to do. You are not allies- you are harming all survivors.

Stop telling RAMCOA survivors to never look into things

It's funny how this is often done in order to try and aid and help us, considering not having the terminology almost got us killed.

Non-ramcoa survivors telling RAMCOA survivors that talking about RAMCOA is dangerous and they should never look into it are actively harming programmed systems by triggering silence programs and making them self-destruct and get less access to aid, community, and terminology to be able to explain experiences to a medical professional and there has been little to no proof that learning about RAMCOA has ever killed a RAMCOA survivor.

People who push this idea that "it's too dangerous for you :((" and shut down all ramcoa survivors and then try to destroy our community terms like HC-DID (highly complex; this is used to described programmed systems that are polyfragmented and their complex structures) because of some idea of being a glorious savior to us- are just being incredibly selfish and insensitive. It has never been about helping us, not ever. It has been about you and people like you wanting to feel like you're oh so cool and good and special. That you "really care" about the likes of the poor weak incapable RAMCOA survivors.

We don't need to be babied. We fucking crawled out of the bowels of hell itself and have been through things that people often don't survive. Some of us have to fight programs every day- before and after knowing about our survivor status. Omega programming didn't start when we learned about RAMCOA- it first kicked off when we were nine years old. You failing to educate yourselves on the way programming functions yet insisting on speaking for us and people like us is infuriating. We are not children and even the ones that are do not fucking need you to baby them.

The only people we have ever seen proclaim talking about how "speaking on RAMCOA is bad and dangerous!!!!" are one of two groups; Non ramcoa-survivors speaking for us, and RAMCOA survivors with a program actively causing them to say this. In case you don't know much about programming, there is programs that make you try and silence both yourself and other people. This is one of the most well known types of programs. I am sorry to say this but we genuinely believe that most if not all RAMCOA survivors saying this are having a program run.

People pushing this message onto us literally triggered our silence program for so long we couldn't say much to our therapist until we learned terminology. It took that for us to be put on a disappearance watch list. This community idea could have gotten us killed. We were in literal danger because we could not manage to tell our therapist about our experiences because others had said the very same words our abusers did. "Don't tell anyone."

RAMCOA perpetrators do fucking everything they can to make sure we never speak. You are aiding abusers by contributing to our silence and you are possibly sending people to die. This is not a thing I can be lighthearted about. This is something that has made our system have alters that deeply hate and despise anyone who contributed to it with us and the same to anyone who may have done so to others.

Edit: For those who struggle to interpret this- no we never said you should randomly spur of the moment look into RAMCOA with no safety nets. That should be common sense. We also literally never said that anywhere. I don't know why people are so incapable to read what we say. We're autistic we say what we mean.

Endos / endogenics and why they aren't valid :

We've made posts on this before but we decided it might be good to make one big post to link to for when / if anyone asks again. We tried to cover everything we could in this post but we'll likely be making other posts similar to this later on.

So what are endos? Endos or endogenics are people who claim to have DID/OSDD without trauma or claim to have alters / be a system without having DID/OSDD.

Why is this bad? This is misinformation because as far as science knows DID/OSDD is a trauma based disorder (specifically caused by trauma in early childhood, which is speculated to be 1-9 / 1-12 years old) and your brain would not split / create alters without reason. You cannot have alters without having a disorder, this is common sense as it's not normal to have alters. To add onto this endos also take over our communities and steal our terms. (We'll make a post with further information on that in the future).

There is also a carrd that explains why endos are bad and debunks a few myths if anyone is interested in it! If not continue reading

Why can't you have DID/OSDD or alters without trauma? As far as science knows DID/OSDD is a trauma disorder and in order to have alters in the first place you require dissociation, which is also a trauma response. Here are tons of medically reviewed sources that say this:

“ They suggest that DID is caused by experiencing severe trauma over a long time in childhood. By experiencing trauma in childhood, you take on different identities and behaviours to protect yourself. As you grow up these behaviours become more fully formed until it looks like you have different identities ” — rethink.org

“ Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously known as multiple personality disorder, is a complex psychological condition caused by many things. These include severe trauma during early childhood (usually extreme, repetitive physical, sexual, or emotional abuse). It's also known as split personality disorder. ” — webMD

“ DID is usually associated with adverse experiences in someone’s past and traumatic memories. ” & “ Dissociation — a major part of DID — is a defense mechanism the body uses to reduce your awareness during overwhelming trauma ” — pysch central

“ DID is associated with long-term exposure to trauma, often chronic traumatic experiences during early childhood. ” & “ Dissociation—or disconnection from one’s sense of self or environment—can be a response to trauma. It can happen during a single-incident, traumatic event (e.g., an assault, a natural disaster, or a motor vehicle accident), or during ongoing trauma (e.g., wartime; chronic childhood abuse). ” — mcleanhospital.org

“ Dissociative disorders often develop as a way to deal with a catastrophic event or with long-term stress, abuse or trauma. This is particularly true if such events take place early in childhood. At this time of life, there are limitations to your ability to fully understand what’s happening. In addition, your coping mechanisms aren’t fully developed and getting support and resources depends on the presence of caring and knowledgeable adults. ” — my.clevelandclinic.org

“ There are many possible causes of dissociative disorders, including previous traumatic experience. ” & “ Switching off from reality is a normal defence mechanism that helps the person cope during a traumatic time. ” — nhs.uk

“ Dissociative identity disorder is the result of a natural way of coping with childhood trauma. Our page on the causes of dissociative disorders has more information. ” & “ Dissociation is a natural response to trauma while it's happening. But some of us may still experience dissociation long after the traumatic event has finished. Past experiences of dissociation during traumatic events may mean that you haven't processed these experiences fully. ” — mind.org (two links since they're two different pages)

“ Dissociative disorders usually start as a way to cope with shocking, distressing or painful events. The disorders most often form in children who go through long-term physical, sexual or emotional abuse. Less often, the disorders form in children who've lived in a home where they went through frightening times or they never knew what to expect. The stress of war or natural disasters also can bring on dissociative disorders. When you go through an event that's too much to handle emotionally, you may feel like you're stepping outside of yourself and seeing the event as if it's happening to another person. Mentally escaping in this way may help you get through a shocking, distressing or painful time. ” — mayoclinic.org

Most of these sources are pretty recent too, with the most recent one being made in September 2023 (webMD)

What about religious beliefs / tuplamacy? First people are not required to believe or participate in your religious beliefs (and religious beliefs are not exempt from criticism) and second tuplamacy is a closed Buddhist practice that has nothing to do with being a system and should not be compared to being a system nor should it be included / involved in system communities. Note that the DSM-V also says that in order to have DID; "The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice." <- this does not mean it's possible to have alters due to a religious thing, if anything it says they cannot be counted as alters / as a system.

To add on, no you cannot pray to be a system or transition into being a system. If you were to pray and one day magically become a system you are either in denial or you've convinced yourself you're something you're not. Believing you can be a system without trauma or that you can become a system by praying is like believing you can get autism from vaccines or drinking too much dairy milk, that's just not how it works.

What about mixed origin systems? Mixed origin systems are not a thing. DID/OSDD forms purely from trauma, you can't form from a mix of trauma and not trauma, that's not how it works. If you identify as mixed origin you are likely in denial and really need to come to terms with the fact that you are either traumatized or you're not a system at all.

What about other kinds of origins? Other origins like "willowgenic" and all that bullshit? Yeah no, same thing as endos, not possible. Look above for all the proof you need, DID/OSDD is only caused by trauma. Traumagenic is the only valid origin.

But I gave myself DID! / But I created my own alters! No you didn't. That isn't possible, you cannot turn yourself into a DID/OSDD system and creating alters is a coping mechanism, not something you do for fun, sources on this;

“ DID Isn't Something You Can Give Yourself on Purpose. Having DID was not a conscious decision those of us with the disorder made when we were children. Dissociative identity disorder is not a selective disorder, meaning you cannot decide that you want to develop this brilliant coping mechanism and then you have it. ” — healthyplace

“ In any case, additional alters are usually the result of extreme stress. The mind does not like to be fractured even when an individual already has DID or OSDD-1. Many individuals cannot split unless a split is strictly necessary for their protection, functioning, or ability to remain hidden as a system. That said, there are exceptions. Some individuals may become so used to using splitting as a coping mechanism that they may split easily in response to seemingly minor stressors. ” — didresearch.org

Isn't being a system like the same as being trans or being LGBTQ? No, many endos compared the two but they are completely different. Being LGBTQ is an identity, it's something you are born as. Being a system is a debilitating disorder caused by severe trauma, it is counted as a disability which is;

“ 'A person has a disability if: They have a physical or mental impairment, and the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on the person's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.' ” — gmc.org

The reason DID would be counted as a disability is that;

“ Having a dissociative disorder can affect your ability to keep a full-time job, especially one with work stresses, which can worsen your symptoms. ” — disabilitysecrets

And the DSM-V criteria literally says;

“ The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning ” — traumadissociation

But the DSM-V says that trauma isn't required! No, the DSM-V actually says CSA isn't required, there are other forms of trauma that don't involve CSA or child abuse. To act as if it saying that the trauma isn't always CSA or child abuse means that it doesn't require trauma at all is extremely invalidating to those who are traumatized in ways that don't involve child abuse or CSA.

But this source claims endos exist / DID doesn't require trauma! Most of those sources are extremely old and / or made by endos (or pro endos) themselves. (We'll make a more in-depth post on this topic some other time, but for now this is all we have to say on it)

But we don't know everything about the human brain! You're right, we don't. The brain is mysterious, but we do know enough to know that it doesn't do these kinds of things for no reason. We know the brain reacts to trauma and we know what the difference between a normal brain and a disordered brain is. Just because we don't know everything doesn't give people an excuse to jump to conclusions and spread misinformation. It is better to stick to what science currently knows which is the theory of structural dissociation, which is the current theory about how DID/OSDD forms, and so far no one has been able to disprove it. And before someone says it, no it is not only a theory, it is a scientific theory which is;

“ A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts. The theory of gravitation, for instance, explains why apples fall from trees and astronauts float in space. Similarly, the theory of evolution explains why so many plants and animals—some very similar and some very different—exist on Earth now and in the past, as revealed by the fossil record. ” — amnh.org

And to add on;

“ Scientists develop theories to explain the natural world and to advance scientific knowledge. A theory is the highest level of explanation in science. Some features of scientific theories are that they: have been thoroughly tested over an extended period, provide accurate explanations and, predictions for a wide range of phenomena, are widely accepted by the scientific community, demonstrate strong experimental and observational support ” — study.com

What counts as TBMC? Ex-Pentecostal wanting to know because I never really see clear and concise definitions on these things and trying to research RAMCOA gives me a lot of dodgy right wing rhetoric which I don't want to keep having to comb through for my own sanity.

TBMC is known by as two things. One: trauma based mind control. Two: torture based mind control.

Most survivors we've also ran into prefer the former because it tends to include things that are less extreme and not everyone feels their trauma went far enough to be considered torture. It's also unfortunately true that a lotta alt-righters tend to get into mind control in a more co-opting nature, which is ironic given the group that did that to us was alt-right. Honestly we find the TB to be unnecessary given mind control is always traumatic and is inherently horrific.

What counts as TBMC?

TBMC is something done primarily through abusive means to induce a dissociative state, in which one becomes more suggestible. This can be done in order to intentionally create parts/alters (when done starting on someone as a child in rare cases) or just to make someone behave the way you want them to. This is why sometimes people who are abducted by other countries as agents betray their old group and join in with their abusers. (For an extreme example). Other ways the dissociative state is achieved is through putting people into forms of trances. This can be done with meditation or mantras, forced hypnotization, and at times substances.

We've got a good mixture of both mind control and conditioning. The conditioning is done more via Pavlov's Dogs type experiences and "training" and is less tied to TBMC and typically easier to train out of. Mind control- especially in those raised with it- is driven into a part of their personality. It becomes an essential piece of the whole identity and it is not something that can be taken away without proper aid and therapy. You cannot deprogram yourself from mind control the way you can "uncondition" yourself, so to speak.

Anything that was driven into you while in a dissociative state (thus highly suggestible) or being actively traumatized that is ideological, personal, an act, behaviors, etc. is typically a form of mind control. A very common example of this is being made to be fully and completely dependent upon your leader/an authority figure. This may result in what is reminiscent of worship of the individual and in some cases leaves the victims incapable of making decisions. To this day we have to ask friends in desperation what food we should eat because the idea of deciding for ourselves is far too difficult. We roll dice connected to numbers to mark our decisions in hopes of having a way to make a choice. (And again, this is but one example.)

Some of the information we have garnered on the subject comes from a variety of sources more heavily focused upon cults as that was what we grew up in and with. We have dug deep into the information on what makes a cult a cult and what signs of specific types of cultic programming we exhibit. Even then programming can be hard to categorize and know what is meant by because it's so personal and specific in its application. I am uncertain if we are of much help- but I will say we personally see no harm in if you find spaces appropriate for it, asking if specific things you expect may be programming or signs of TBMC are able to be labeled as such. That's what we had to do to accept we were a RAMCOA survivor as we originally had less memories of the cult until given the name by our parents (to be clear we did this only because we were already in therapy and part of our recovery and work is being done in order to come out against the group and the leader, and have full legal protections as a whistle blower)