Let’s Talk About The “pep Talks” In CACW - Steve And Wanda’s Chat In Her Room And Tony And Peter’s

Let’s talk about the “pep talks” in CACW - Steve and Wanda’s chat in her room and Tony and Peter’s chat in his room.

I see folks talk about the mentoring parallels, or even suggest that the talks are identical. I DON’T see anybody talk about the key, crucial difference between them.

One of the mentors was talking about sustainability, and one of them never talks about it.

Look. Superheroes are just like any other caregivers: counselors, social workers, nurses, paramedics. If they’re gonna address what taking care of other people is really like, they’ve got to figure out what’s sustainable for them… not just physically but emotionally and mentally. Caregiving is brutal fucking work. Burnout and compassion fatigue and spiritual damage are always hovering close.

Steve is engaging Wanda directly on the issue of sustainability - specifically on the issue of limitations. Not being destroyed by one’s mistakes. Acknowledging the fact that one person can’t always protect everybody, it’s impossible.  “If we can’t find a way to live with that, next time maybe nobody gets saved.” Steve is sharing his hard won understanding of what works for him… when he loses somebody on his watch, he pushes past his own guilt and grief because there’s somebody else out there who might be helped by his future actions. He is still capable of good. He focuses on them to keep going.

I won’t call stoic soldier Steve a paragon of flexible mental health… but here he has great wisdom. He has humility, and that’s the key. He can admit that he failed, and accept it, and know that he still has gifts that help others. That’s something he knows deep in his bones. This humility allows him to collaborate well with others so that individual, personal limitations are better compensated for.

In the other scene, Tony listens to Peter reflect back to him exactly how Tony feels about being a superhero - saving the world is entirely up to him. The language may sound parallel to Steve’s, but in reality its meaning is completely different. “When the bad things happen, they happen because of you,“ Peter says. Now that some event has given Peter his hero identity (and ever since Tony got his, way back), evil and tragedy is now entirely about them. It’s about their ability to stop it. They are defined by their failures. This is in no way sustainable.

This is built on an immature narcissism that can be grown out of. Peter is a sweet kid who takes on too much. Hopefully he’ll grow past this soon. Tony hasn’t gotten there yet. Tony still has no ability to face his own limitations with any peace. This has been his trajectory for a while and we are watching him crumble because of it. His panic attacks about it overwhelm him and he won’t get help. He has been comprehending the depth of possible threats for years but has only ever conceptualized the solution coming from him and his tiny self alone. So, since he thinks the solution must come from him, he sees his own limits as betraying the whole world, and refuses to acknowledge or address them. He doesn’t know how to truly collaborate with anybody else. Despite being surrounding by compassionate, gifted people, Tony puts it all on his own shoulders, and so he finds only inadequate solutions.

Tony unilaterally leaps at the Accords partly because of this issue - because he intuits that they somehow address limitation, and he craves some resolution to this pain he’s in. But he still doesn’t do the work. He doesn’t look at ALL the consequences and the structure of the Accords. He still won’t let go of the narcissism that underpins every decision he makes. He hears Peter reflect that youthful short-sightedness back to him and he has no wisdom to offer to counterbalance it.

Steve imparts practical guidance to a young Wanda struggling with her own gifts and limits. Tony sees in Peter a kindred spirit at about the same level of emotional maturity.

More Posts from Rocketbabyworld and Others

7 years ago

wow...

@MrCraigKyle: I Took This Shot For My Daughter And It’s The Coolest Picture I’ve Ever Taken! #BadassLadiesOfMarvel

@MrCraigKyle: I took this shot for my daughter and it’s the coolest picture I’ve ever taken! #BadassLadiesOfMarvel


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8 years ago

He is so badass in this. Love this guy.

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8 years ago

I always thought that Cap looking like he is was kind of statement. But not only for nazis. For everyone. You can’t only fight evil that affects you personnally. Sometimes you have to make a choice. Maybe you are not a target for nazis it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t punch them. For all I know of history of that time I think it was a powerful and timely ()))) statement

But the real reason I had to chime in was that Steve Rogers is my favorite superhero. Why? Because unlike other patriotism-themed characters, Steve Rogers doesn’t represent a genericized America but rather a very specific time and place – 1930’s New York City. We know he was born July 4, 1920 (not kidding about the 4th of July) to a working-class family of Irish Catholic immigrants who lived in New York’s Lower East Side.[1] This biographical detail has political meaning: given the era he was born in and his class and religious/ethnic background, there is no way in hell Steve Rogers didn’t grow up as a Democrat, and a New Deal Democrat at that, complete with a picture of FDR on the wall.

Steve Rogers grew up poor in the Great Depression, the son of a single mother who insisted he stayed in school despite the trend of the time (his father died when he was a child; in some versions, his father is a brave WWI veteran, in others an alcoholic, either or both of which would be appropriate given what happened to WWI veterans in the Great Depression) and then orphaned in his late teens when his mother died of TB.[2] And he came of age in New York City at a time when the New Deal was in full swing, Fiorello LaGuardia was mayor, the American Labor Party was a major force in city politics, labor unions were on the move, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade was organizing to fight fascism in Spain in the name of the Popular Front, and a militant anti-racist movement was growing that equated segregation at home with Nazism abroad that will eventually feed into the “Double V” campaign.

Then he became a fine arts student. To be an artist in New York City in the 1930s was to be surrounded by the “Cultural Front.” We’re talking the WPA Arts and Theater Projects, Diego Rivera painting socialist murals in Rockefeller Center, Orson Welles turning Julius Caesar into an anti-fascist play and running an all-black Macbeth and “The Cradle Will Rock,” Paul Robeson was a major star, and so on. You couldn’t really be an artist and have escaped left-wing politics. And if a poor kid like Steve Rogers was going to college as a fine arts student, odds are very good that he was going to the City College of New York at a time when an 80% Jewish student body is organizing student trade unions, anti-fascist rallies, and the “New York Intellectuals” were busily debating Trotskyism vs. Stalinism vs. Norman Thomas Socialism vs. the New Deal in the dining halls and study carrels.

Steven Attewell: Steve Rogers Isn’t Just Any Hero - Lawyers, Guns & Money

gotta love a well-researched takedown of such lazy, hoary tropes as “Captain America is a monolithic aryan crypto-fascist”

7 years ago

Awww. Steve would be embarrassed. Poor guy.

Today I Learned The Avengers’ Chinese Nicknames And Now I’m Crying
Today I Learned The Avengers’ Chinese Nicknames And Now I’m Crying
Today I Learned The Avengers’ Chinese Nicknames And Now I’m Crying

today I learned the Avengers’ Chinese nicknames and now I’m crying

7 years ago

Am I seeing things or they have... claws???

Infinity War
Infinity War

Infinity War

8 years ago
Steve Rogers + Symptoms Of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, As Requested By @heyhosers​
Steve Rogers + Symptoms Of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, As Requested By @heyhosers​
Steve Rogers + Symptoms Of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, As Requested By @heyhosers​
Steve Rogers + Symptoms Of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, As Requested By @heyhosers​
Steve Rogers + Symptoms Of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, As Requested By @heyhosers​
Steve Rogers + Symptoms Of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, As Requested By @heyhosers​

steve rogers + symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, as requested by @heyhosers​

6 years ago

things tony got in civil war:

+ a flashback to an important moment in his past

+ a look at his parents and their relationship

+ a non-action/character driven scene to catch viewers up on what our hero has been doing

+ time given to his closest friendship, including a heartfelt/respectful scene at the end

+ an apology

things steve got in civil war:

+ none of that

7 years ago
“You’re Keeping The Outfit, Right?”

“You’re keeping the outfit, right?”

My Captain America Stuff  | Redbubble | Commissions


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8 years ago

OMG this is the best  XD

stevetony will never be canon, keep dreaming

there goes all my hopes cRUSHED, anon. all of this time spent shipping them meANINGLESS. empty. how will i gO ON knowing that they will never be elevated to the mythic untouchable status of canon. it’s so sad that all i have is

steve riding tony

steve defending naked tony’s honor

the way tony likes to launch himself face first at steve in order to protect him

tony stark: steve rogers’ personal chauffer

it’s

kind of

a thing

for them

but let’s not forget

steve carries tony out of burning buildings in the bridal carry

in fact steve guest stars in an iron man comic just to carry tony out of a burning building

the fireman’s carry is actually reserved for the cartoon

marvel funded & created a CGI animation film featuring 71 minutes of them sassing each other and taking names

once upon a time the current writer for the avengers, jonathan hickman (2012-present) implied that tony’s method of choice to make up to steve were blowies

and yes he might be torturing us all but at least he’s man enough to admit that the avengers is really about their relationship

and is that surprising i mean there’s an entire comic that’s based on a narrative arc, again, aBOUT THEM

comic writer brian michael bendis on how avengers: prime was framed as an adventure they had to go on to remind them why they love each other so much

here it is in tony’s own words

tony looking like he’s having a religious experience and seen the light or smth while being hugged by steve

60′s comics written like all the best terrible fanfiction where tony stark refers to steve rogers’ eyes as clear azure and composes poetry about his grace and daring

“i know you believe in the future, but i believe in people. and i choose to believe in your, iron man.”

retro comics were just really gay

animated tv show avengers assemble opens with steve facing off against red skull, his presumed “death” is the catalyst for tony reforming the avengers. their mid-season finale ended with tony “almost dying”

not very pg-13 for a kids’ show if you ask me

it’s really also extremely gay

tony stark no. 1 fanboy

in all the universes

what’s his username? captain america. what’s his password? captain america. foolproof. no one would ever guess. totally unhackable.

avengers tower: home and HQ of the earth’s mightiest heroes but also the site of the one and only “cap tribute room”

all the best superhero bases have framed portraits of captain america it’s interior designing 101

in fact tony thinks steve’s pretty no matter what skintight navel-bearing costume he’s wearing

tony thinks ultimates cap just so happens to be america’s hottest president

“CAPTAIN HANDSOME”

“good morning beloved” to which steve answers without even batting an eye

are they flirting??? was there really another horse?? we just don’t know

“where is here? is this a dream? tell me it is, tony. tell me you can wake me. tell me i’m not going to die in my sleep. don’t let this old soldier just fade away” – marvel comics?? or soap opera love story?? who can even tell the difference???

pictured: assorted superheroes with representatives from the avengers, the fantastic four, the x-men discussing how much tony and steve love each other while in the background steve and tony have a conversation

a married couple and leaders of the next generation of avengers referring to steve and tony as the mother and father of the avengers

sometimes they hold hands

actual canon universe earth-3490 where cis female tony married steve and their marriage helped end the civil war.

“mr. stark, when i woke up in this era, i had no one, nothing. you gave me a purpose, somewhere to belong. you gave me a home.”

tony and steve’s lips have touched bc tony was giving him cPR TO SAVE his life at the risk of his own

tony referring to the day he met steve as the greatest day of his life

civil war: the confession. where tony stark admits to steve rogers’ cold dead body that worse than the equivalent of selling his soul, alienating half of his friends and family from him, destroying his moral integrity combined, the one thing he couldn’t live with was steve being dead

“maybe… maybe there was a reason you had to be on the other side of every argument. how you could be my rudder, steering me when other’s couldn’t… i don’t know if i can do it without you… i certainly won’t do it as well…”

like they’re standing there reincarnated as walking corpses and steve’s missing half his face and they’re still acting like an old married couple

“guess they’ll have to learn to love me. you did.”

they jOKE ABOUT HAVING THE KIND OF ROUGH SEX THAT REQUIRES SAFEWORDS.

why dream when i have all this cold hard reality staring me in the face


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