AAAA The Way You Draw Stan Doing The Hands Thing He Does!! That Old Man Loves To 👉🥺👈

AAAA the way you draw Stan doing the hands thing he does!! That old man loves to 👉🥺👈

i quite like when the old man does his lil hand thing,,

Was Caryn Pines a good or a bad mom to the Stan twins?

Stan introduces us to Caryn’s character by describing her in the following words: “Mom was a pathological liar, which served her well as a phone psychic.” She is also, canonically, a kleptomaniac. “Pathological liar” and “kleptomaniac” aren’t the first terms you think of when you picture a stereotypical housewife back in the day, are they? So that’s already proof she can’t be put in a box together with the “women of her time.”

Let’s get this out of the way: she does not fear Filbrick and people should stop using that as an excuse for her actions (or lack thereof). But she isn’t totally uncaring, either. I present you a canon analysis of the relationship between Caryn and her kids under the cut!

Usually, the possibility of Filbrick being abusive towards Caryn is a headcanon born not out of any canon evidence, so to speak, but specifically the need to excuse Caryn not intervening as Stan was being kicked out, even though she watched it happen, just as Ford did. However, this is not what we see in the comics:

Caryn initiating the kiss/affectionate physical contact, and smiling brightly and genuinely to the camera.

And, again:

She’s presumably alone with Filbrick here, again initiating affectionate physical contact, and looking at him with an expression that can only be described as very tender.

In both panels, she doesn’t look afraid of him at all. Not even remotely. She knows the man she married and she loves him. I think this might confuse a lot of people given what we know of Filbrick, but in plenty of relationships irl, a man will hit his children and then turn around and call his wife affectionate pet names; an abusive parent will see their children as beneath them to discipline as cruelly as they please but see their spouse as much more of an equal in the family structure.

I know a few of you might be thinking that these two panels don’t represent the totality of their home life/the relationship between Filbrick and Caryn. After all, there is abuse in “loving” marriages as well, right? It’s a complex situation. And I would agree with you, if we were talking about real life instead of a cartoon. Gravity Falls is a cartoon and all its characters are fictional and 2D, lacking the complexity of real humans—what we know about them is what is shown to us by the writers, and what is shown to us is intended to represent the characters in their totality and dictate how the audience should interpret them. We’re meant to fill in the gaps using what is offered to us as a basis. While you are free to headcanon Caryn as being abused by Filbrick, it doesn’t have any canon evidence to back it up, simply because the writers did not mean to imply that. If they did, she would have been written differently.

Take as an example Mrs. Gleeful (Gideon’s mom), who, despite not being abused, seems plenty terrified of the events happening around her:

The GF Wiki describes her as “paranoid, traumatized and disturbed” right off the bat. It isn’t subtle at all, because it’s a cartoon. Caryn, on the other hand, doesn’t show the barest hint of fear. On the contrary, they make a point of showing her happy with her husband and her family, overall.

When I focus on a Watsonian approach, I sometimes wonder if Caryn might not have been intended as a questionable mother, but that a questionable mother was simply the woman we ended up with given the writers’ lack of thought about their side characters and/or struggle to write female characters compared to male ones. I’m not entirely sure about that, though; a friend once pointed out Filbrick and Caryn are exactly the kind of parents you would expect the Stan Pines you knew up to AToTS to have, intended to sort of explain the two sides of his personality to the audience: a father packed to the gills with toxic masculinity and a lying, cheating mother. One thing I’m certain was intended, though (and if Alex ever releases canon material retconning this fact, it will be just that: a retcon), is that Caryn does love Filbrick.

In conclusion, she probably didn’t want to leave or divorce Filbrick, either. Not because she couldn’t or was afraid to, but because it was her choice to stay with him.

Now, can we blame her for that? That’s complicated too, I believe. I don’t think that physical punishment, even if severe, would be automatically be seen as abuse or anything of the sort in whatever period their lives took place, 1950s or 60s (Alex is insistent on the fact the show isn’t supposed to have an actual timeline, but an “emotional” one). I think this can be applied to a lot of other behaviors. I’ve seen many older adults saying, in my country, that “back in their day” an adult could silence their child with just a single look, just by raising their eyebrow. I don’t know how things were in the USA, but I bet kids were expected to be more “respectful” and “obedient” and a lot of what would be considered abuse nowadays was then considered an acceptable way of raising a respectable citizen. So Caryn, too, might have interpreted her husband’s behavior as his way of “toughing up” the boys.

I personally headcanon (emphasis on headcanon! I always keep headcanon and analysis neatly separated, and we’ll soon return to the analysis) Caryn as having Stan as her favorite. Most people with siblings seem to think there’s always a favorite one for each parent, and we know of her canonically being affectionate with Stan! She’s the one who says he has “personality,” who calls him her “little free spirit,” who asks about him to the principal when Ford himself doesn’t. She’s one of the only two people who attend his fake funeral, according to the TBoB site, and the other person was an IRS agent. On the other hand, we know virtually nothing about her feelings for Ford in particular/specific, other than the fact she at the very least doesn’t feel negatively about him—no nicknames, no praise, not much of anything. I like to think Ford is not disliked, but Stan is her baby. It makes sense to me because Stan was a talented and creative liar, like her, while she couldn’t relate much to studious Ford. (It’s also fun to give Ford mommy issues, hahah. It would be pretty ironic if, while Stan is confessing to Ford about how upset he feels that Ford is Filbrick’s fave, Ford was internally harboring similar suspicions towards their mom.)

Back to the analysis—these are the two instances in which we see her acting as a mom, in TBoB and the comics respectively:

In the first picture, she’s smiling at the camera with one of her babies crying in the background. In the second, she doesn’t seem very bothered by the fact her troublemaker kids are “sneaking out” (very probably so Filbrick doesn’t see them) to “fight the devil.” She doesn’t even ask for more information or scolds them for climbing down a sheet from their window (when they could easily fall and get seriously hurt), just tells them to be back home by dinner.

I think she did love them in her own way (she wouldn’t have been one of the two people to show up to Stan’s fake funeral otherwise, since there was no benefit in doing that), but that way of hers was clearly not the stereotypical, overprotective, nagging, fussing mother hen way. I see her characterized as some sort of Mrs. Weasley from Harry Potter far too often (probably because people have an idealized concept of How A Good Mother Should Behave in their minds, and with the lack of canon information about Caryn, that’s the default set for her), when truly her style of parenting seems closer to Grunkle Stan’s style of grunkling.

As an example, Stan smiling and reassuring himself as the kids fight like crazy in the background:

Except, of course, that she was a woman and didn’t have Stan’s weird hangups about masculinity, so she wouldn’t shy away from being more openly affectionate, cooing, praising.

Except, also, that she didn’t intervene when her kid was kicked out, while Grunkle Stan, who does everything for his family and is unflinchingly loyal to it (even to his own detriment), absolutely would have intervened in her place.

She sounds confused, a bit concerned, but again, she was not afraid to make her presence known and walk into the scene and ask what was going on as her husband was visibly very angry. Her tone is not of a panicking or scared woman.

Then, Stanley calls for Ford to defend him, not her. Ford, his brother, same age as him, who was at the moment beyond furious with him and very unlikely to show any compassion. Ford, whose attempts to change Filbrick’s mind would more likely than not have been unsuccessful. Not Caryn, adult, who probably had much greater sway over Filbrick. They say a child’s first instinct is to call for their mama. Clearly not in this case!

I’ve seen many people headcanon that Stan kept in contact with her, or else Ford couldn’t possibly have known Stan’s address. I think they might be forgetting the magic omniscient Mailbox! That’s my own headcanon to how Ford managed to get it. (Frankly, I don’t think the writers thought too much about it, so I doubt there’s an official explanation; if there is one in the future, it’ll be a retcon for sure. That’s how GF works.)

Think of Stanford Pines’ character and how he operates, how he always avoids asking for help, how self-sufficient he always attempts to be. He has two options: one involving phoning his mom and asking for his twin’s address and fueling gossip/assumptions that he was ready to reconcile with Stan, and another one than involved just Ford himself and supernatural/magic means, like an old, magic mailbox. Which of the two is more likely to be his choice, especially in his paranoid state? (And speaking of the mailbox, Ford wouldn’t necessarily have had to ask it about Bill’s weaknesses. By the time he needed Stan’s address, he had already tried using many of Bill’s canon weaknesses against him and failed, so he wasn’t struggling due to lack of knowledge.)

When Bill threatens Ford, he says no one would miss him if he died out there in the snow, which implies that, at least from Ford’s point of view, that would be believable (since Bill wouldn’t brag about something absurd and meaningless but something that he assumed could actually hurt Ford):

Bill mentions, in that order: Fiddleford abandoning Ford, Filbrick not wanting Ford to return without millions, and Ford’s lack of friends. No mention of either Stan or Caryn. If you want to be more charitable towards Caryn, perhaps this is Bill refusing to remind Ford of any person that could possibly love him. Even then, Ford’s mind doesn’t immediately go to Stan (presumably because of their fight) nor to Caryn (presumably because of Ford’s estrangement from his family) as a denial/protest against Bill’s words.

Ford also admits he had abandoned their family to become a recluse:

Caryn was very likely included in the “family” he felt like he had abandoned.

I’m not saying that Stan wasn’t keeping in contact with her, but that if you choose to think he was, that’s also a headcanon. I personally can see it, since Stan is a character who always prioritized family above all, while Ford was growing increasingly isolated and estranged from them.

Ultimately, when it comes to Caryn, I think her character depends a bit on Filbrick’s. The worse you headcanon Filbrick to be, the worse it looks for her as a mother. Fortunately for her in my case, I don’t headcanon Filbrick to be a stereotypical monster that beat his sons black and blue all the time. I think he sucked at parenting, but not exaggeratedly so, and in a way that could still be socially acceptable back then.

Meanwhile, in the fandom, I think there’s a tendency to portray Filbrick as Terribly Bad and Caryn as Undoubtedly Good, demonizing one and idealizing the other to the point you stop and wonder: how did this wonderful, perfect woman even marry this man? I believe the black & white extreme contrast is appealing, in a poetic sort of way—a helpless saint stuck with a monster—but not that realistic considering their situation.

It’s also more comforting to imagine her as extra motherly to compensate for the fact Filbrick was so terrible. Shermie also gets this treatment, in a way, being headcanoned as a very protective older brother that would often defend the twins from his father’s wrath. It’s just... sad to imagine our beloved blorbos Stan and Ford didn’t get much protection at all.

I don’t believe they were very protected, but I also believe that Filbrick also wasn’t that terrible. That time in which he attempted to “sell” Stan after he got a bad grade (according to the TBoB website), for example? I doubt he was actually selling the boy. Way more likely that he was humiliating the boy, which is obviously very, very bad, alright, but not to the levels of actual child trafficking.

I actually can see Caryn intervening in certain occasions, telling her husband to chill, that this time Stan (his favorite victim, despite the fact Ford also suffered with his expectations in a different way) was innocent, that they were just kids, but not forcefully so. Not in an “insistently, angrily putting her foot down” way. You could, of course, also headcanon Filbrick was that terrible but threatened the boys so they didn’t tell their mom and Caryn remained blissfully unaware of the worst—if that’s your cup of tea. Even if she were unaware of the worst, though, there are things she surely wouldn’t have missed while living under the same roof as Filbrick and the Stans without plausible justification, so I wouldn’t abuse that excuse.

It’s also possible to me that she knew some of it and started deceiving herself and coming up with explanations to soothe her own mind, perhaps even dissociating a little. She wouldn’t want her Filbrick to be a terrible father, so she pretended that he wasn’t. This hypothesis, ironically, would give her a fitting similarity to her son Ford: the worst liar is the one who lies to herself.

I’m not a great fan of the idealization of Caryn as a mother because that’s somewhat sexist to me. You know, how mothers are definitely treated differently than fathers, and often put on a “can do no wrong” pedestal with higher expectations? Society often forgets that women with children are people first, mothers second. I think it’s possible for a female character that is also a mom to be a good character but not that good of a mom. Caryn, imo, gives off more cool wine aunt vibes than she does motherly momma.

But we know that, despite her shortcomings, she does cherish her family.

Stan and Ford probably have many fond memories of her, such as this one in TBoB:

At least we can assume that, despite her husband’s idea of a Hanukkah present being actual cinder-blocks, which Ford felt the need to mention to the reader, Caryn herself must have gotten them more decent/normal gifts with the budget they had.

Or here, in J3, where we can probably assume Caryn was included in the “family” that attempted to comfort Ford about his extra fingers (I can’t imagine Filbrick being this sentimental):

She is also described as a “caring mother and kleptomaniac” on this Lost Legends website that I believe few people know about the existence of (the same that revealed her full name to be “Caryn Romanoff Pines”), but considering Alex’s acidic/sarcastic tone I don’t know if we’re meant to take the “caring” adjective very seriously. Especially because he has said before, in the DVD extras (AToTS commentary), that Stan attempted to get from the public “the affection he never got from his family and lost with his brother.” (Such statements seem conflicting with each other, so I prefer a middle ground approach.)

Narratively speaking, I believe she loved her boys and her boys loved her, but not enough to take away Stan’s protagonism in Ford’s life and Ford’s protagonism in Stan’s life. They’re meant to rely mostly on each other, to the point Alex confessed in HanaHyperfixates’ and ThatGFFan’s interview that he didn’t elaborate on Shermie’s character because Stan & Ford were meant to part of a duo against the world and an extra sibling would alter that dynamic:

In terms of Shermie, I remember asking Rob or somebody at some point, like, “Would Shermie be here, logically? Do we have to see him?” I don’t really wanna see him. I’m not interested in that. I’m interested in Stan and Ford being—sort of having only each other and then losing each other because of their different life paths.

I think the suggestion was, “Maybe Shermie would be a baby. Maybe that would happen.” And being like, “okay sure.”

That said, I also believe people don’t get that. I’m tired of this being my experience in this fandom:

(Sorry, I had to include a meme.)

She’s excused for not intervening that night even as her seventeen-year-old son, Ford, is not extended the same courtesy. She’s also often put on a pedestal for... being present at her own child’s funeral? It’s ironic how, despite her fanon self being idealized by the fandom as mothers are idealized by society irl, her canon self is treated by the fandom as fathers are treated by society irl: the bare minimum becomes cause for celebration.

It might sound like I’m being too harsh on her, but I didn’t write this to attack Caryn. On the contrary, I think it’s very, very nice that her character is so difficult to pin down, as either a fully bad or a fully good mother. She has nuance, imo, and that’s a very delicate trait for any fictional character to have because the fandom never handles it well. Why? Fandoms in general prefer drama over nuance. (I’ve seen the contrary happening, too: a few fans getting so fed up with fanon Caryn that they decided to write her as completely uncaring.)

Ultimately, my own answer to the question posed in the title is: neither, but at least she (probably) loved them. Reading all of this, different people might have reached different conclusions, deeming her as either good or bad. That’s just proof, imo, of how hard it is to crack her. Good for her.

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sandwich0u

4 months ago