It Never Ceases To Amaze Me That There's Still Debate Over What L'manburg Was Or What C!wilbur Intended

part one because it exceeded the character limit

Thank youuu for the ghostbur response. It read my mind (or my notesapp, rather)! I anonymized myself because I didn't know how ghostbur criticism would be received (since he is VICIOUSLY defended sometimes) but you share my opinion!!!I  think that Ghostbur kind of facilitated the polarization of Wilbur Soot after his death, especially for Tommy. In truth, L’manbur was no saint and Pogbur was no villain, but it’s hard for Tommy to view it that way after Wilbur’s down spiral and death. He would have already deified L’manbur because he’s already associated with much more positive memories, and Wilbur's drastic change in Pogtopia* would have left him a little traumatized at how different his family member/close friend had become, leading him to shift his focus more on happier times (and try to reclaim them, through trying to win back L’manburg and the version of Wilbur he seemed to have lost). Compared to Pogbur, L’manbur seemed like a saint. L’manbur began to symbolize that safety, that kindness that had suddenly “vanished” from Pogtopia Wilbur. And then, of course, that “new” version of Wilbur blows up L’Manburg and any hopes of reclaiming that stability. Tommy would not easily accept that the Wilbur who did all of this is the same as the beloved President Soot. *Pogtopia WIlbur’s change wasn’t that drastic, actually.  Wilbur was canonically a little unstable/stressed during the presidential era, but never opened up to anyone– especially not Tommy, who looked up to him. So to an outsider, Wilbur’s descent looked like an almost sudden collapse. But then Ghostbur is added to the mix. He isn’t L’manbur, not at all, because even L’manbur had suffered and grown as a result (Eret’s betrayal, etc etc), but he’s the closest thing to the Wilbur from the happier memories. He isn’t Wilbur BEFORE the suffering, but he’s Wilbur if the suffering never happened. And Tommy, having just lost a brother figure and been exiled a second time, isn’t going to try to make that distinction. When he or anyone else asks Ghostbur why Alivebur did what he did and Ghostbur can’t answer, Tommy relents– and at that point, Ghostbur no longer is a way to heal from Wilbur's death, he becomes a means for escapism. It’s not Ghostbur’s fault, he doesn’t mean to have this effect on anyone, but it doesn’t mean that he didn’t cause it. You hear this polarization in what Tommy tells Tubbo when they’re going to attack Dream for the last time (in the Final Waltz SAD-ist animatic): “ You know the OLD Wilbur? Let’s make him proud.” ...But there really isn’t an OLD or NEW Wilbur at all. Wilbur has always been Wilbur, yet everyone seems to subconsciously separate “L’manbur” and “Pogbur” into two completely different people. The Saint and the Devil. When Revivebur comes back, he isn’t L’Manbur OR Ghostbur. Revivebur is different, different from what Tommy remembers L’Manbur to be, and Ghostbur is gone because of his return.  

this is such a good analysis

i will say i dont think ghostbur ruined c!crimeboys, i think he was more of a symbol of one of my favorite themes in c!crimeboys which is change:

c!tommy as you mentioned does not like change, so much of his arc is surrounded by this air of things changing before he can really process them, and being forced to pick up the pieces, even though he wasnt the one who caused the change in the first place (this is where a lot of the parallels between him and jesse from breaking bad come in for me, because while he is not an innocent, he suffers the consequences of other people’s actions far too often, with barely anyone actually recognizing that he’s allowed to be upset over how unfair it is)

meanwhile c!wilbur wants change, but only change he can control. control is such a big thing for c!wilbur, and he wants to have control over as much as he can in order to protect those he loves, and often he has to change things to do this. however, change does not listen to someone in charge, which is the major struggle c!wilbur has, and often he creates consequences that tommy has to deal with (especially in the case of when he blew up l’manburg) and in the end, its not something he can learn to accept, and thats why its his downfall (this is a big part of why he blew up l’manburg. he wanted the change, he wanted the control over what he created, but the change wasnt the change he wanted and controlled

so this is the constant strife with c!crimeboys: they are always moving in different directions. c!wilbur embraces change that he controls while c!tommy tries to deny change because its how he feels in control. neither of them really have control over anything, but tommy is the only one who can really accept this, even if he doesnt want to.

so to me, this is what ghostbur symbolizes. he symbolizes the opposite of what c!wilbur is because he can never change, and he cant feel in control of anything. so c!tommy gets a very altered view of c!wilbur because of ghostbur and the way he allows him to cling onto a past that doesnt actually exist, and it largely symbolizes this constant fight they have. they’re brothers, but they’re destined to be each other’s downfall if they actually remain with each other

c!Dream always told himself he was objective, but he wasn't. He couldn't be. Perfect objectivity doesn't exist; there will always be biases and preconceived ideas about others, and these ideas threw Dream off more than I think he'd like to admit. He was wrong about Sam following their rules (he was wrong about Sam caring). But he was also wrong about Tommy, when he was so sure that Tommy only ever wanted to cause him harm.

Red Woods by Robin Tran

Athena, watching her “Warrior of the mind” give his IP address, passport information, location, full name, and serial code

lore is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!

Art by Davood Moghaddami

Leon Belmont Portrait by Katie S

I am obsessed with Sauron projecting his toxic and bumpy relationship with Melkor onto that dark web of manipulation he weaves with Celebrimbor. He expects Tyelpë to be as unstable, unreliable, chaotic, cold and heartless as Melkor could be, and is fairly certain that deep down Tyelpë is as ready to betray him as he does Tyelpë. And when Tyelpë shows him genuine love, kindness and, unwittingly, empathy, there is an urge within Sauron to give into this warmth and to reach out for a real 'human' connection. This makes him very confused and angry, at it forces all that bottled-down anger towards Melkor to surface. But then Tyelpë would unknowingly repeat Sauron's lies he has already told him, call him Annatar, and that would bring Sauron back on track.

Later, in Sauron's pits of torture, Tyelpë would laugh hysterically and tell Sauron, If he was anything like you are, then he had already left you before you even met.

domestic c!dnf