(tw: Mention Of Suicide) Did We, As A Fandom, Just Collectively Forget How Ruthless Miles Edgeworth Can

I do not like Snow's characterization in SOTR. As much as I love when the main antagonist has a personal connection to the protagonist, they still need to seem like a threat. The garden scene did not make Snow an interesting foil to Haymitch, nor did it showcase his pettiness in a believable way. It just made Snow pathetic and out of character.

THG Trilogy Snow would used that oppurtunity to exert his control and he would have never allowed himself to seem so weak in front of a random district kid. SOTR Snow wasn't intimidating. His attempts at scaring Haymitch felt inconsequential, even though I knew how the story would end. Honestly, this quote from SOTR said it the best, “if you can get people to laugh at someone, it makes them look weak".

Instead of vomiting and info-dumping about his ex-situationship, what would have been chilling is if Snow started showed Haymitch photos or recordings of his family and girlfriend in a "I know where they live and I can kill them anytime" way. Then Snow is the one who gives Haymitch the phone that has Lenore Dove on the other line. Haymitch has to share his, presumably, last moment with her under Snow's gaze, knowing that he wouldn't hesitate to punish him through her. And as the reader we might know that Snow has an unhealthy obsession with the Covey, but it's never made so explicit that it makes Snow look laughable.

perfectionist (pt. 2)

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I'm gonna ride the wave here and talk about Rise from the Ashes and why, even though I think it's a good retcon and doesn't involve any contradiction either factual or thematic, I believe it is still undeniably a retcon.

The crux of the matter, I think, is the definition of retcon. Here's what Merriam-Webster has to say about it:

the act, practice, or result of changing an existing fictional narrative by introducing new information in a later work that recontextualizes previously established events, characters, etc.

It has to change the narrative, not the events of the story themselves. It has to recontextualise the events in question. And I'd argue the case does those exact two things by establishing that Miles Edgeworth not only never willfully forged evidence, but was morally against it in the first place, even though the contrary had been implied in the four first cases of the game.

Here's how Miles Edgeworth is introduced in Turnabout Sisters, in the first conversation we have about him with Gumshoe. There are two dialogue options, one where you can say that yes, you do know him, or one where you say that no, you don't.

Here's what Phoenix has to say about Edgeworth if you pick "I know him":

I know him. He's a feared prosecutor. He doesn't feel pain, he doesn't feel remorse. He won't stop until he gets his "guilty" verdict.

And here's what he has to say if you pick "I don't know him:"

(Of course I know him... I was just playing dumb. He's a cold, heartless machine who'll do anything to get a "guilty" verdict! There are rumors of back-alley deals and forged evidence...)

The words "forged evidence" appear only in one of the two options. They're only rumours; there's nothing established. However this is the first discussion of his character; this is the first impression we get of him. The idea we are supposed to get from him is someone ruthless and without scruples, who "hates crime with an abnormal passion."

Later on there is of course the case of the updated autopsy report. The new report is entirely legitimate and treated as such. However it is presented by the narrative as an underhanded trick, with Phoenix exclaiming against it, and further establishes Edgeworth's lack of limits in his prosecuting ethics set up by the conversation with Gumshoe - confirming our bias. We're still talking about narrative intent here, not merely the facts of the story. The updated autopsy report is not an instance of Edgeworth forging evidence, however it showcases his ruthlessness, which by extension serves to corroborate the rumours Phoenix was talking about with Gumshoe - making you believe Edgeworth would indeed tamper with proof without showing him doing so. Edgeworth coaching the witness's testimony and withholding the wiretap has the same effect.

Right before the second trial day, we get to talk with Edgeworth himself, who has come to warn us that even though he knows Phoenix, Phoenix shouldn't expect any mercy from him. Here's what he has to say:

Edgeworth: [...] whatever Mr. White says today, it will be the "absolute truth." No matter how you try to attack his testimony... If I raise an objection, I have it on good faith that the judge will listen to me. Phoenix: (What, does White have the judge in his pocket, too!?) So... you're saying I'm going to be guilty. End of story? Edgeworth: ... I will do anything to get my verdict, Mr. Wright. Anything. Maya: Why... Why!? How can you torment an innocent person like this!? Edgeworth: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

There is also the climax of the case, where Edgeworth tries to request the trial to be extended one more day:

Edgeworth: Ergo! I would like to request one more day before Phoenix Wright is granted his freedom. I need time to make one more inquiry into this matter. Judge: Hmm...! Phoenix: (Another inquiry...!? This isn't going to be another one of those "updated autopsy reports"! This guy just makes up evidence as he pleases! This is bad...!)

This heightens the stakes and creates tension as Phoenix puts his foot down and requires for the trial to come to an end on that day - and it does thanks to Mia's intervention. Once more Edgeworth forging evidence isn't shown, but is implied in a way that we are meant to take as fact.

So that is the image we have of Edgeworth by the end of case 1-2, our first confrontation with him. Someone ruthless, someone who will do "anything" to get his guilty verdict - even if that involves shady dealings (such as, but not limited to, tampering with evidence). Someone without limits.

Then 1-3 happens, where in the course of the trial Edgeworth realises Will Powers is innocent and helps us corner Dee Vasquez into confessing to being the true killer, therefore throwing his trial and helping us win against him. This is a big deal. This is a cornerstone of the arc of game 1, of Edgeworth's redemption arc. After that we get the infamous "unnecessary feelings" scene, where Edgeworth confirms it: he was shaken by the events of this trial and his first loss in the previous one. This is something new for him.

And afterwards of course is 1-4, where we get to the bottom of Edgeworth's vitriolic hatred for criminals and discover his backstory. We get to meet his mentor von Karma, "twenty times as ruthless as him," and witness him pull all the stops to prevent us winning and making our life really difficult. Interestingly he, too, skirts the line of forging evidence, but that fact pales in comparison to everything he does do: orchestrating a murder and framing Edgeworth for it, destroying the letter that incriminated him, hiding the evidence of DL-6 so that Phoenix cannot have access to anything to solve the case.

(On a side note: von Karma using "faulty evidence" against Gregory Edgeworth is actually an established fact, and I think the way AAI-2 retconned that to introduce Blaise was quite clever, but maybe I'll make a similar post about Manfred after the AAI Collection comes out in September)

So that's Edgeworth's arc, where he is confronted to a world where getting a "guilty verdict" isn't always the morally correct choice to make, and where his worldview is entirely deconstructed to allow him a redemption arc. His return in 2-4 continues that arc with his new motto of the "truth" being the most important thing (implying that hadn't always been at the centre of his considerations).

Now compares this with what he says in 1-5.

Edgeworth: Of course not! I didn't touch the evidence. Yes, I will do anything in my power to win a trial. However... I do have a code, and I follow it faithfully.

This is the first time we hear of Edgeworth having a moral code. This is the first time we hear of Edgeworth having limits to what he allows himself to do to earn his guilty verdicts. Up until now all we heard was "anything," as well as justifications as to why defendants deserve and need to be punished - "anything," by essence, implies not having limits.

It's not a contradiction. But it's a recontextualisation, and therefore a retcon.

I'm not going to give quotes or we'll be here the whole day, but we all know what 1-5 then does; SL-9, the Joe Darke killings, Gant's involvement.

By giving the rumours of forged evidence about Edgeworth a tangible starting point, the case reframes them, from something that he was previously implied to do routinely to a single event, one that was orchestrated behind his back and that he had no bearing on or even any idea it was happening. By establishing that Edgeworth does follow a moral code, his image of fearless prosecutor is deconstructed even further; where in 1-4 we were given a reason for his actions, now we are actually being told his actions weren't as severe as hearsay (and Phoenix's bias) led us to believe.

The case also introduces the idea of "working with the defence" and the search of the truth to Edgeworth, which plants the seed for his eventual return in 2-4 and deepens his character arc a little more.

Thematically, I personally think 1-5 inserts itself very well into the larger narrative. It plays with both themes and facts established by game 1 and teases themes and facts that will come in the next games (2-4, all of game 4). However it does recontextualise Edgeworth's arc by establishing he never willfully forged evidence, contrarily to what was previously implied, and giving him a retroactive caveat to his policy of "anything to achieve his guilty verdict" that hadn't existed before. Therefore, it is a retcon, albeit one that works, in my opinion, well within the larger arc of the games and with Edgeworth's character.

This is further evidence for my point that that Edgeworth has a “move on” attitude towards trauma and the past. After his father’s death, he pushed down his grief and guilt to pursue guilty verdicts. He probably did everything he could to forget his old life. Even now, he doesn’t dwell on the past, the difference is his goal is no longer so unhealthily single-minded.

He buries his emotions not for the sake of hiding them but to accomplish his goals.

His Trust...

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Will produce it if enough people are interested 🫡

I agree with everything you said, Azalea! Also here's the exact quote from Farewell My Turnabout:

(You really let me down…) When you disappeared, I felt… betrayed. The reason I decided to become a lawyer to begin with… Was because I believed in the things you said to me, all those years ago… And you… You betrayed your own words. That's why… one year ago, I made up my mind. I decided that the Miles Edgeworth I knew had died… …At least, that's what I told myself.

This line from Phoenix is so so interesting and akdjfdjhskjfdgjh I want to sink my teeth into it. One day, I will write a longer analysis on this but...

No matter if Phoenix truly thought Miles was dead or not, I think this quote makes it clear that Phoenix decided that Miles was dead to him. Phoenix couldn't handle the abandonment, the fear that after everything he did people would still inevitably leave him. So he turned to resentment and killed off "the Miles Edgeworth I knew". Because if Miles had always been the "Demon Prosecutor" obsessed with guilty verdicts (which is what Phoenix keeps accusing him of in 2-4), then Phoenix could dismiss his belief in Miles. Phoenix could dismiss all his efforts and desire to save Miles.

So Phoenix wouldn't have to deal with the pain of believing in and being attached to someone so much... only for them to leave him... again (coughs in Dahlia/Iris).

HOT TAKE: Phoenix should have known Edgeworth was still alive during the “chooses death” era. Gumshoe probably would have told him if he had asked, he was just too busy overreacting.

Lmao hello there you :P I know who you are. You probably are expecting this but I'm sorry to say:

Strongly agree | Agree | Neutral | Disagree | Strongly disagree

Yes, it's true, they didn't find Edgeworth's body, but when someone learns about a note that says the person "chooses death" I think it's difficult to say that thinking they're dead is overreacting lol. Edgeworth was gone, he was gone for an entire year, which is a long time for someone to be missing; usually at that point, if the person doesn't turn up, there's a good chance they are dead - and there was the suicide note on top of things. It's not an unreasonable thing to think, and Phoenix was grieving the best he could, so I also don't think it's very fair to expect him to be perfectly rational in those circumstances. Besides, he seems to still be struggling to accept it by the events of JFA, which honestly tracks with the fact he never got closure.

Besides... there are lines in the game implying that Phoenix did think Edgeworth was alive (something like "you were dead to me" if I recall correctly), and that he resented him for leaving, not dying. Personally I think his behaviour screams of repressed grief and denial, but the alternative interpretation is there.

mine are:

I told my partner that Phoenix went to law school for Miles, and she was immediately like: omg stalker???

I showed my irl friend fanart of Miles smirking and she immediately pulled up a picture of Sasuke smirking (I have not watched Naruto).

I showed another irl friend Miles' dismayed courtroom sprite (the one below), and now she does it whenever she's mildly annoyed at something.

ace attorney fans: what are some of the funniest ways your offline friends have reacted to seeing you play ace attorney?

mine are:

1. my partner at the time shouting "HE'S 23?!?!" and going through all 5 stages of grief upon learning that aa1 miles edgeworth is not, in fact, in his 40s

2. i showed my IRL bestie kristoph gavin and mentioned he was a villain. without skipping a beat they said "well of course he's a villain. he's blonde"

I love this conversation so much.

It's clear in RFTA that Phoenix had an idea of how Edgeworth was supposed to heal after this. Kill the prosecutor in your OR let it help you grow... But Edgeworth did both. He had to kill off his old self before he could truly heal.

Do you think this conversation haunted Phoenix before Edgeworth came back

Iris is a personal fav for me!