I Agree With Everything You Said, Azalea! Also Here's The Exact Quote From Farewell My Turnabout:

I do not like Snow's characterization in SOTR. As much as I love when the main antagonist has a personal connection to the protagonist, they still need to seem like a threat. The garden scene did not make Snow an interesting foil to Haymitch, nor did it showcase his pettiness in a believable way. It just made Snow pathetic and out of character.

THG Trilogy Snow would used that oppurtunity to exert his control and he would have never allowed himself to seem so weak in front of a random district kid. SOTR Snow wasn't intimidating. His attempts at scaring Haymitch felt inconsequential, even though I knew how the story would end. Honestly, this quote from SOTR said it the best, “if you can get people to laugh at someone, it makes them look weak".

Instead of vomiting and info-dumping about his ex-situationship, what would have been chilling is if Snow started showed Haymitch photos or recordings of his family and girlfriend in a "I know where they live and I can kill them anytime" way. Then Snow is the one who gives Haymitch the phone that has Lenore Dove on the other line. Haymitch has to share his, presumably, last moment with her under Snow's gaze, knowing that he wouldn't hesitate to punish him through her. And as the reader we might know that Snow has an unhealthy obsession with the Covey, but it's never made so explicit that it makes Snow look laughable.

I'm gonna ride the wave here and talk about Rise from the Ashes and why, even though I think it's a good retcon and doesn't involve any contradiction either factual or thematic, I believe it is still undeniably a retcon.

The crux of the matter, I think, is the definition of retcon. Here's what Merriam-Webster has to say about it:

the act, practice, or result of changing an existing fictional narrative by introducing new information in a later work that recontextualizes previously established events, characters, etc.

It has to change the narrative, not the events of the story themselves. It has to recontextualise the events in question. And I'd argue the case does those exact two things by establishing that Miles Edgeworth not only never willfully forged evidence, but was morally against it in the first place, even though the contrary had been implied in the four first cases of the game.

Here's how Miles Edgeworth is introduced in Turnabout Sisters, in the first conversation we have about him with Gumshoe. There are two dialogue options, one where you can say that yes, you do know him, or one where you say that no, you don't.

Here's what Phoenix has to say about Edgeworth if you pick "I know him":

I know him. He's a feared prosecutor. He doesn't feel pain, he doesn't feel remorse. He won't stop until he gets his "guilty" verdict.

And here's what he has to say if you pick "I don't know him:"

(Of course I know him... I was just playing dumb. He's a cold, heartless machine who'll do anything to get a "guilty" verdict! There are rumors of back-alley deals and forged evidence...)

The words "forged evidence" appear only in one of the two options. They're only rumours; there's nothing established. However this is the first discussion of his character; this is the first impression we get of him. The idea we are supposed to get from him is someone ruthless and without scruples, who "hates crime with an abnormal passion."

Later on there is of course the case of the updated autopsy report. The new report is entirely legitimate and treated as such. However it is presented by the narrative as an underhanded trick, with Phoenix exclaiming against it, and further establishes Edgeworth's lack of limits in his prosecuting ethics set up by the conversation with Gumshoe - confirming our bias. We're still talking about narrative intent here, not merely the facts of the story. The updated autopsy report is not an instance of Edgeworth forging evidence, however it showcases his ruthlessness, which by extension serves to corroborate the rumours Phoenix was talking about with Gumshoe - making you believe Edgeworth would indeed tamper with proof without showing him doing so. Edgeworth coaching the witness's testimony and withholding the wiretap has the same effect.

Right before the second trial day, we get to talk with Edgeworth himself, who has come to warn us that even though he knows Phoenix, Phoenix shouldn't expect any mercy from him. Here's what he has to say:

Edgeworth: [...] whatever Mr. White says today, it will be the "absolute truth." No matter how you try to attack his testimony... If I raise an objection, I have it on good faith that the judge will listen to me. Phoenix: (What, does White have the judge in his pocket, too!?) So... you're saying I'm going to be guilty. End of story? Edgeworth: ... I will do anything to get my verdict, Mr. Wright. Anything. Maya: Why... Why!? How can you torment an innocent person like this!? Edgeworth: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

There is also the climax of the case, where Edgeworth tries to request the trial to be extended one more day:

Edgeworth: Ergo! I would like to request one more day before Phoenix Wright is granted his freedom. I need time to make one more inquiry into this matter. Judge: Hmm...! Phoenix: (Another inquiry...!? This isn't going to be another one of those "updated autopsy reports"! This guy just makes up evidence as he pleases! This is bad...!)

This heightens the stakes and creates tension as Phoenix puts his foot down and requires for the trial to come to an end on that day - and it does thanks to Mia's intervention. Once more Edgeworth forging evidence isn't shown, but is implied in a way that we are meant to take as fact.

So that is the image we have of Edgeworth by the end of case 1-2, our first confrontation with him. Someone ruthless, someone who will do "anything" to get his guilty verdict - even if that involves shady dealings (such as, but not limited to, tampering with evidence). Someone without limits.

Then 1-3 happens, where in the course of the trial Edgeworth realises Will Powers is innocent and helps us corner Dee Vasquez into confessing to being the true killer, therefore throwing his trial and helping us win against him. This is a big deal. This is a cornerstone of the arc of game 1, of Edgeworth's redemption arc. After that we get the infamous "unnecessary feelings" scene, where Edgeworth confirms it: he was shaken by the events of this trial and his first loss in the previous one. This is something new for him.

And afterwards of course is 1-4, where we get to the bottom of Edgeworth's vitriolic hatred for criminals and discover his backstory. We get to meet his mentor von Karma, "twenty times as ruthless as him," and witness him pull all the stops to prevent us winning and making our life really difficult. Interestingly he, too, skirts the line of forging evidence, but that fact pales in comparison to everything he does do: orchestrating a murder and framing Edgeworth for it, destroying the letter that incriminated him, hiding the evidence of DL-6 so that Phoenix cannot have access to anything to solve the case.

(On a side note: von Karma using "faulty evidence" against Gregory Edgeworth is actually an established fact, and I think the way AAI-2 retconned that to introduce Blaise was quite clever, but maybe I'll make a similar post about Manfred after the AAI Collection comes out in September)

So that's Edgeworth's arc, where he is confronted to a world where getting a "guilty verdict" isn't always the morally correct choice to make, and where his worldview is entirely deconstructed to allow him a redemption arc. His return in 2-4 continues that arc with his new motto of the "truth" being the most important thing (implying that hadn't always been at the centre of his considerations).

Now compares this with what he says in 1-5.

Edgeworth: Of course not! I didn't touch the evidence. Yes, I will do anything in my power to win a trial. However... I do have a code, and I follow it faithfully.

This is the first time we hear of Edgeworth having a moral code. This is the first time we hear of Edgeworth having limits to what he allows himself to do to earn his guilty verdicts. Up until now all we heard was "anything," as well as justifications as to why defendants deserve and need to be punished - "anything," by essence, implies not having limits.

It's not a contradiction. But it's a recontextualisation, and therefore a retcon.

I'm not going to give quotes or we'll be here the whole day, but we all know what 1-5 then does; SL-9, the Joe Darke killings, Gant's involvement.

By giving the rumours of forged evidence about Edgeworth a tangible starting point, the case reframes them, from something that he was previously implied to do routinely to a single event, one that was orchestrated behind his back and that he had no bearing on or even any idea it was happening. By establishing that Edgeworth does follow a moral code, his image of fearless prosecutor is deconstructed even further; where in 1-4 we were given a reason for his actions, now we are actually being told his actions weren't as severe as hearsay (and Phoenix's bias) led us to believe.

The case also introduces the idea of "working with the defence" and the search of the truth to Edgeworth, which plants the seed for his eventual return in 2-4 and deepens his character arc a little more.

Thematically, I personally think 1-5 inserts itself very well into the larger narrative. It plays with both themes and facts established by game 1 and teases themes and facts that will come in the next games (2-4, all of game 4). However it does recontextualise Edgeworth's arc by establishing he never willfully forged evidence, contrarily to what was previously implied, and giving him a retroactive caveat to his policy of "anything to achieve his guilty verdict" that hadn't existed before. Therefore, it is a retcon, albeit one that works, in my opinion, well within the larger arc of the games and with Edgeworth's character.

Someone finally said it!!! Edgeworth is a very nuanced character. He is more than his trauma, his "unnecessary feelings" for Phoenix, or his emotional constipation. Narumitsu is not a one-sided Phoenix saves Edgeworth all the time dynamic. They're equals! Does Edgeworth's insistence in Farewell My Turnabout that Phoenix is not a hero mean nothing? I want to do like a proper analysis of this sometime, probably after I finish Trials & Tribulations...

okay here’s a secret for you guys: i actually prefer mtnr over nrmt

im not even sure why LMAO the second i started shipping nrmt i automatically pictured miles as the top like it just came naturally to me ig?

idk what it is about him that comes off that way to me but in all the ships i like the serious character is automatically a top for me so..

and because of that i got genuinely suprised when i found out that bottom!miles was way more popular in fanart/fics than i initially thought

like i didn’t mind at first because im not THAT obssessed with top/bottom dynamics i didn’t care too much about that stuff as long as it’s a ship i like and i’ll forever be grateful and happy that i get to see content of my fav ship everyday regardless of it’s specific contents/character dynamics it’s just a personal preference that’s all <3

but ngl there are times where i get kinda miffed about how miles *specifically* is protrayed in these fanworks because they always… woobify him? and don’t get me wrong ur free to protray him however u want pls don’t let me stop u this is only my opinion😭

they always baby him too much and take away his most defining traits like his ruthlessness and intelligence so they could turn him into this oh so angsty sad little boy who cannot intuit any emotion that’s not sadness or grief and needs to be taught how to feel happy by phoenix all the time as if he isn’t capable of doing it himself and needs to be handheld constantly

idk about u guys but miles’ character isn’t just about him struggling with unecessary feelings or missing his dad or whatever and yes that’s a huge part of him but what im saying is that’s not the ONLY big part of miles as a character

let’s not forget this is the same dude who told someone he didn’t gaf if they k worded themselves and he spent the last couple years prior to reuniting with phoenix SENDING INNOCENT PEOPLE TO JAIL OR POSSIBLY EVEN GETTING THEM THE DEATH PENALTY like this man’s ruthless as shit even after his character arc which really shows that von karma’s influence will forever be a part of him no matter how much he changed😭 he’s not evil or malicious but he’s not ur “sweet and sad widdle boy who we must protecc🥺” either

i dont like it when ppl dumb down this ruthless, intelligent and traumatized man to “aww my poor sad widdle baby” no offense but that’s not miles anymore that’s a whole ahh oc atp LMAOOO

I absolutely LOVE it tho when people dive into his darker side it’s such a refreshing thing to see ppl do with his character like YES give me more fics where miles is willing to bend the law if it's gets in the way of the truth, and it has ACTUALLY HAPPENED BEFORE!!!

it’s also another reason why i like mtnr because the fans of that dynamic actually DO explore this side of him a lot more where he’s more in control of everything and just takes charge and does whatever tf he wants without caring about what others think it’s a really nice change for once LOL but said fanworks are few and really hard to find

and also ppl always think miles is the most law-abiding citizen in society or whatever but i think that's bcuz him being prosecutor (one of the best too) and how much he loves his job automatically means that he’ll follow the rules to the ends of the earth or something but it’s been shown multiple times that he cares more about the truth than law itself ESPECIALLY if said law prevents him from knowing what really happened

sorry if this comes off as mean and i genuinely do not have a problem with ooc protrayals hell i LOVE ooc fanworks they’re super fun and i eat those shit up like a full course meal it’s just that miles get babied by the fandom so much more than phoenix does and hardly anyone ever talks about his morally gray side that’s willing to commit literal crimes to bring the truth to light in favor of turning him into the poster boy for ace attorney angst and it just kinda annoys me sometimes💀

this was supposed to be me talking about nrmt dynamics but it turned into a miles character analysis(?) instead… whoops

"#no no i do much mia meta and she meant it exactly like that#phoenix heard her exactly the way she meant#and that's why they're both so angsty" <-- pasting the tags of someone who reblogged my post because omg thank you

I always had this Feeling that there is so much more to Mia Fey than meets the eye. But I was always like: okay, we'll cross that bridge when we get there (aka after I lose my mind analyzing Phoenix, Miles, and Franziska).

Honestly that piece of advice from Mia is what tipped me off first, because I was like: are you telling someone to like, ignore their emotions? hmm suspicious.

And in Reunion and Turnabout, Mia started protecting Morgan? We literally had to break her psyche-locks.

Also in Farewell My Turnabout, Mia seems to be just as suspicious and distrusting of Edgeworth as Phoenix is? But at the end she goes: so now do you know what being a defense attorney means? ... Mia, I swear YOU didn't get it either until Edgeworth showed both you and Phoenix.

These are just observations, I really need to comb through this and properly analyze Mia Fey because gosh. (And I need to finish playing T&T).

Is it just me or is this piece of advice from Mia, "for a lawyer, the worst of times are when you have to force your biggest smiles", really sad?

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing inherently sad about it. I get that it's about not giving up, pushing through impossible odds and rock bottom for your client. Because for most people, being a lawyer is a just a profession.

But for someone like Phoenix? Someone who hides their pain behind saving others, who never talks about their trauma, who (subconsciously or not) considers being a lawyer not just a job but their entire identity...? All of a sudden, Mia's advice isn't just about the courtroom anymore, because for Phoenix being a lawyer was always about being good enough and able to save people. To Phoenix, Mia's advice is about pretending you're fine, not letting anyone see how you truly feel or else you can't save anyone.

perfectionist (pt. 2)

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tag as ship for an instant block theyre siblings you freaks

That's such a good point. There’s also the fact that their both involved with Phoenix but Krisnix is super popular as a toxic ship while I've seen almost zero Phoenix x Dahlia. I haven't played Apollo Justice but Kristoph and Dahlia have so many parallels that this disparity in the fandom is insane to me (poison? manipulator? manipulates a sibling to do their dirty work? polite/pleasant facade?).

Dahlia has so much potential that's literally right there in canon, why are we ignoring it?

god remind me one day to go on like. a proper rant about how people in the fandom treat dahlia vs how they treat kristoph. kristoph is seen as some mastermind who has some deep secret trauma because it’s vaguely hinted at while we KNOW for a fact that dahlia definitely has a fuckton of trauma between what we see in the flashback case and just, her involvement in the fey family in general but especially how she specifically was treated but????? nobody fucking cares??? like sure she’s not justified but neither is kristoph and i’ve still seen people arguing that he is. he’s so babygirlified by the fandom and i fucking hate it. people are tagging him in posts about evil WOMEN. dahlia is RIGHT. THERE. like my fault for expecting people to give basic respect to women but good fucking lird i could not make this kind of shit up if i tried you people are ridiculous

something's gone terribly wrong

(you're all i wanted)

mine are:

I told my partner that Phoenix went to law school for Miles, and she was immediately like: omg stalker???

I showed my irl friend fanart of Miles smirking and she immediately pulled up a picture of Sasuke smirking (I have not watched Naruto).

I showed another irl friend Miles' dismayed courtroom sprite (the one below), and now she does it whenever she's mildly annoyed at something.

ace attorney fans: what are some of the funniest ways your offline friends have reacted to seeing you play ace attorney?

mine are:

1. my partner at the time shouting "HE'S 23?!?!" and going through all 5 stages of grief upon learning that aa1 miles edgeworth is not, in fact, in his 40s

2. i showed my IRL bestie kristoph gavin and mentioned he was a villain. without skipping a beat they said "well of course he's a villain. he's blonde"

Is it just me or is this piece of advice from Mia, "for a lawyer, the worst of times are when you have to force your biggest smiles", really sad?

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing inherently sad about it. I get that it's about not giving up, pushing through impossible odds and rock bottom for your client. Because for most people, being a lawyer is a just a profession.

But for someone like Phoenix? Someone who hides their pain behind saving others, who never talks about their trauma, who (subconsciously or not) considers being a lawyer not just a job but their entire identity...? All of a sudden, Mia's advice isn't just about the courtroom anymore, because for Phoenix being a lawyer was always about being good enough and able to save people. To Phoenix, Mia's advice is about pretending you're fine, not letting anyone see how you truly feel or else you can't save anyone.

Honestly, to me Manfred seems like he would be too rational to spend time on hating a group of people like that. He's extremely obsessed with "perfection" and looking back on Turnabout Goodbyes, he's also ruthlessly efficient. He prides himself on finishing trials in mere minutes and when Phoenix exposes his crime, all he does it tell the judge to hurry up with putting him away. He only acts irrationally when his "perfection" is threatened, namely when he shot Gregory over a penalty. And he puts a lot of effort into regaining his composure (taking the only vacation of his career after his crime). And adding all that on top of everything OP said about him raising Franziska... Manfred being misogynistic just doesn't seem very consistent with canon.

It's really easy to hate Manfred if you love Miles or Franziska and there is nothing wrong with interpretations, but I would recommend taking a good look at the evidence in canon.

Kinda scared to post this, but this has been on my chest for years and I finally have a platform to air it out. I don’t understand people who think that manfred is misogynistic. I know it’s like the cool thing to do in the aa fandom to hate manfred for fanon reasons, but I think manfred being misogynistic is one of the most unrealistic ones for me. Especially since Franziska turning out to be, well, Franziska, indicates otherwise. Like, Franziska is a loud, outspoken, confident, man-hating lesbian with anger issues that scares tf out of people. Basically everything that men hate. If manfred was misogynistic he would’ve snuffed that out as soon as he could. But he doesn’t. Bc he lives for that shit. I highly doubt he would try to constantly bring her down bc she’s a woman and “manfred wanted a male heir” (a fanon idea I also don’t understand since the competition that she and miles had together was started between them, and not directly initiated by manfred at all). Franziska being the way the she is literally can’t be more fitting of Manfred’s ideal of a von karma.

I just think it’s funny that manfred raised an angry lesbian daughter, is supposedly a wife guy (aai2), and overall has never said anything directly misogynistic in the games and the aa fandom chose him to be the misogynist of all people just bc he’s a villain. Really feels like the only reason people do that is bc they hate him so much they pile quite literally every horrible human trait they can think of onto him, and not bc it’s actually justified based on his character….