March 12: Tom Holland And Christoper Nolan Prepare To Film 'THE ODYSSEY' At The Greek Sea.

Kid Diego: Don't belittle me.

Kid Klaus: Ah, yes of course. Number 2 would like to clarify that just because his name is Number 2 does not imply in any way that he's inferior to Number 1.

Kid Diego: And all of the above.

Kid Luther: *murmurs something incoherent*

Kid Klaus: Number 1 says he's Number 1 for a reason and some people should just get used to it. 

With Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, Tim Burton looks like he might be aiming to do the funniest thing that’s ever happened in one of his movies. I’m extremely here for it. Like, honestly, let the antagonist and the protagonist fall in love (with or without meaning to) while working together to save somebody else. Thirty-six years and multiple franchise iterations have determined we love them because they’re both freaks; what have you even got to lose?

I would like to note though, that when we talk about the 'Rape of Persephone', 'rape' doesn't refer to literal SA. Nowhere is it mentioned that Hades rapes Persephone.

In this case the word 'rape' just means 'abduction', 'kidnapping'. It's from the latin raptus which means to carry off, to kidnap.

ngl i do enjoy the hades x Persophone idea, but i wish it reflected mythology more like Dread queen persophone is a damn kidnapping freak too.

The thing with Hades and Persephone is that these two are far from the perfectest, most pure, most ideal couple to ever exist. The beginning alone is disturbing, with Hades kidnapping, raping and then either tricking or straight-up forcing Persephone into remaining into the Underworld by giving her those pomegranate seeds. He also cheated on her with Minthe, so fidelity is not a strong point either.

What frustrates me though is that a lot people completely erase these aspects and try to create a version of the myth completely different from the ancient ones where the only similarities end up being the figures' names. I understand erasing the rape part, because even though back then marital rape wasn't considered a crime (and there are still parts of the world where it still isn't, unfortunately), the idea of having a woman starting to be fond or to love her rapist just because he treats her nicely is on itself deranging. But erasing the kidnapping or the infidelity only removes the complexity and the grey nuances of their relationship. Why, instead of claiming that Persephone willingly went with Hades or that Hades is the only faithful god, people would focus on the fact that she had just as much power and authority over the Underworld as him? Why, instead of demonizing Demeter, people would try to understand that having your daughter kidnapped and forcibly married off to someone is a disturbing scenario, and that her actions were completely justified?

On the "dread queen Persephone" part, I have to recognize that I despise the way people either portray Persephone as this innocent, naïve and oblivious flower girl, or as a cruel, merciless and completely terrifying queen.

Yes, she groomed Adonis (Pseudo-Apollodorus), brutally tortured Minthe before turning her into a plant (Starbo), inflicted Thebes woth a deadly plague (Antonius Liberalis) etc. etc. But she also realeased Sisyphus from the Underworld (Theognis), gave Orpheus a chance to rescue his wife (Diodorus Siculus), sent Alcestis back (Pseudo-Apollodorus), welcomed Heracles like a brother, allowed him to take Cerberus and to rescue Theseus and Pirithous (Diodorus Siculus) etc. etc. She had her own moments of cruelty, but compared to Aphrodite who made children lust over their parents or Dionysus who cursed mother to kill and devour their babies she is not as blood-thirsty and merciless as people like to give her credits for. What is ironic though is that people are perfectly capable to acknowledge that just because Hades ruled over the dead and ancient greeks were afraid to pronounce his name that doesn’t mean that he was evil, but somehow Persephone must be completely dreadful in order to be intersting.

Reducing either one of them two or their relationship to an aesthetic isn't just reductive, but also shallow, repetitive, uninteresting, uncreative and overall boring.

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Dream Theory Shortcuts

Full post - unpolished

The Opening Segment

Astrid

Richard

Rory

Charles

Glickman

Betelgeuse's Couple's Therapy

Betelgeuse/Jeremy parallels and Garden of Eden symbolism

Astrid's Demonic Birthing Sequence

Darktoonverse

Spoken dream/nightmare allusions

Critical analysis of the literal interpretation

References:

Casper

Carrie

The Shining

The Fly/Rosemary's Baby

The Wizard of Oz

Alfred Hitchcock

Elvira pt. I & pt. II feat. Labyrinth

B&W Segments

Ed Wood/Plan 9 From Outer Space

Mario Bava

Different answers you can give to “there shouldn't be people of color playing the gods in Percy Jackson since they were Greek”.

Broke: The gods can be played by people of any race because they're not real.

Woke: The gods can be played by people of any race as, because they're not human, we have never been able to see them in their true forms. We would burst into flames if we did. The depiction we see of them in statues was done in the image of the models that posed for them. Also race politics weren't the same in Ancient times as they are know, especially in the USA. Some territories that are know considered Middle Eastern were considered Hellenic back them and they worshiped these gods. Because of this, artists and worshipers of these regions imagined the gods in their image, just like we nowadays can see depictions of Jesus in different races.

Now let's discuss why Hollywood loves to cast Central or Northern European descent actors to play Mediterranean humans and demigods such as Hector or Achilles.

Five: I married a mannequin.

*shows everyone a picture of Dolores*

Five: We don't need counseling.

^^^^^^^ All of this.

There's a difference between 'telling your own version' of a myth, and telling a completely different story. If you need to change a pre-existing character so much that they feel like a new character, then it's simply bad writing.

Miller is especially self-righteous about her retellings in interviews. Are her retellings 'other versions' of the myths? If by 'other versions' you mean distorting the mythology and missing its point, or utilizing foreign mythology as an aesthetic to draw people in, then yeah, I guess.

Readers who are ignorant of the myths or have no respect for the culture those myths belong to, will then take Miller's distorted stories as fact, and assume that hers is the correct way of telling them. And, evidently, Miller's fans will not tolerate anyone criticizing her.

Well I promise you that her books give the opposite impression.

In fact, her characterization of Patroclus alone is enough for me to doubt her both as an academic and as a researcher.

(Not to mention her tendency to invent unnecessary details, things that don't happen in the myths, like Circe getting assaulted, which was specifically added to 'justify' Circe's behaviour in the Odyssey. A+ writing, how very progressive)

A classicist like Miller should know that when you apply modern standards to an ancient myth, essentially removing it from the era in which it was written, and ignoring the reasons the myth was created, then you're missing half of the context.

Either she

has severely misunderstood the characters in the Homeric epics and Greek mythology in general (which doesn't say much about her as a classicist), or

she does understand the characters in the myths, but she cares more about what kind of story will 'sell'. She's thinking, "Let's see, if I frame Homer as problematic, and promote my books as the solution to the 'Homer problem', then of course people will prefer my stories."

If it's the latter, it's not a surprise, and she's not the first person to do it, and unfortunately she won't be the last.

@rightwheretheyleftme I think you're going into these retellings without fully grasping the purpose and cultural value of Greek mythology. I think you're glorifying these retellings regardless of how off the mark they are when it comes to characterization.

@lez-exclude-men If you're enjoying Miller's books that much, then I hate to break it to you, but you are the one who needs to get 'elbows deep' in research. But if you have no desire to do all that work, maybe you shut up and let people express their opinions? Miller's work is flawed, and we are allowed to point it out.

This isn't about Miller being a woman, and it isn't about all retellings being inherently bad. This is about Miller not respecting and not understanding the mythology she's so eager to 'fix'.

So Madeline Miller is writing a Persephone retelling. So let's make our bets about the book.

The winners will win this picture of a brick.

So let's make a bet.

A.) She will potray Demeter as an abusive mother, whaile the kidnapping will be ereased, and Hades will be baby boyfied.

B.) Hades will be potrayd as eveil incarnate, and Demeter will be potrayd as a poor poor blorbo (similar to how she potrayd Circe)

C.) Both will be potrayd as the worst. Demeter, and Hades will be potrayd as abusive, and Persephone will be potrayd as a poor poor girl who always has to suffer.

My bet is that it will be C.).

His father is away, and so is his mother, even if she rarely leaves the palace.

It rains a lot when he's young, and no one tells him why.

---

She needs to be objective. Impartial. Unwavering. She needs to be.

And so she tries. She tries hard and when she looks into his eyes, she locks her heart away. She knows that, if she leaves it on plain sight, she will stop and think of how brilliant his eyes seem underneath the fire torch light; she’s staring at two pieces of burning coal.

His voice, low and gruff, reaches her ears. "Athena..."

She almost winces. You are just too much, she thinks, ashamed.

---

His hand is bleeding. As he lazily wraps a piece of cloth over his golden stained knuckles, facing the wall that just met his wrath, he's trying to deny it all.

Their father gave her a thunderbolt.

Their father, who has always been on and on about how lethal a weapon his thunderbolt was, passed such a weapon on to his daughter.

Not his son. Never him. He doesn't deserve it.

As if his thoughts could be read, he hears a sharp crack of lightning in the distance. He looks out his window.

That's her. He chuckles. When Zeus throws his thunderbolts, it's a long, low rumble that shakes the earth. He wants everyone to feel his anger, that prick.

What he just heard however, was different.

In many ways, he thinks, she's like a crack of lightning. She is the thunderclap he hears in the distance when he's caught in a rainfall.

Listen, they removed "I'm Wishing/One Song" and the "One Song" reprise.

It was bound to flop, they had it coming.