More Older Gaang

"the malfoys and snape only tolerated each other for political gain and he hated the family actually" : boring, no angst, cliche, makes snape's decision have no emotional stakes

"the malfoys and snape trusted each other despite everything largely bc they met very young, snape challenges their pre conceived notions on basically everything but they treat him like family regardless, meaning that snape betrayed the (bad) people who gave him a home for the ("good") people that mocked and abused him his whole life": insane, appealing, lucius being a reluctant big brother, snape being dracos godparent, emotional stakes through the roof, post war lucius grappling w the fact his bsf betrayed him, that he was the one to lead him to his death yet lucius still loves him bc he saw him as his little brother

And have some tests too

on catholicism and severus & tobias snape

if you're going to expect a very well-thought out essay about this, please let me stop you right there. it likely won't be :)) but this was prompted by comments of people on my hc of catholic!snape and a (long) conversation with @dementedlollipop on discord that just spurred so many Thoughts.

going under a cut coz i don't know how long this will be.

so. i have made several allusions via drawings and stuff that one of my (main) hcs is that snape and tobias are catholic. i don't think i explained properly before why it makes so much sense; i tend to just spazz, but i'll really try to be articulate this time.

first, the background:

i grew up catholic, but the culture i was raised in was also catholic, so it permeated the value system i and everyone else around me knew. people put a high value on respect, filial piety, obedience, family, etc. all the stuff you watched on Derry Girls. that's exactly how it is to grow up in catholic culture, at least where i'm from. american catholic culture is slightly different because it's placed in a very secular context so it has a lot of caveats. it's very different if you grow up culturally catholic, and in a country that still largely runs on religious practices.

how this relates to the snapes:

i always find it interesting to figure out why characters act the way they do, especially if there's very little said in canon about them. tobias was one of the characters i was so interested in, because i found his situation so unique.

he's a muggle, as we know, and it was alluded to that he had neglected and/or abused his son and/or wife. yet, as far as we can tell, he also didn't leave them. it was likely that by the time severus met lily he already knew both eileen and severus were magical. why did he stay with them, if he disliked magic? surely it would have been easier if he had just left and started over elsewhere?

it's not just tobias, but also severus; how he acted, his thought processes, why he did what he did. it all felt very familiar to me, and it all routed back to traditional catholic values, and the way that i know how you just can't shake them off, no matter how hard you push against the faith itself.

the things that feed the hc (and which also leads to more hcs):

- severus was born in 1960, which means tobias was born in the first half of the 20th century, sometime between the 20s and 40s. (i like to peg it as the late 20s, because i also like to hc him being a ww2 vet, not only because it fits the context but also like father, like son -- severus is also a soldier);

- tobias living through the first half of the 20th century means he would have lived in an england that was still 'religious' in a sense, wherein religion was still a big part of their culture (i mean it technically still is, but i would imagine more people back then were still practicing it actively). he didn't strike me as anglican or protestant tbh because he seemed too traditional, and by that i mean he had a strong sense of duty to his family, strong enough to not break his marriage vows and to stay despite the presence of magic;

- now, magic has always had a weird placement in catholicism. i've never really had issues with religion vs harry potter. we were never banned from it, however i do know that back then, the very concept of magic was something that scared the bejeezus out of the common folk because it was "the devil's work" (and yes, i know this belief is wrong and is rooted in oppression by the church, but this is not what we're discussing rn). the repulsion tobias feels about magic i feel is therefore something that's rooted in religion;

- it was dementedlollipop that pointed this out but severus wearing his mam's blouse can also be read as tobias not even minding this was happening. how could this happen in a hypermasculine society like a lower-class town in 60s england? if tobias had really cared about it (because shame, because what will the neighbors think of you running around looking like that), severus would have worn his da's shirt rather than his mam's, if only to save himself from possible punishment. but he didn't. we know, however, that he was neglected/punished as a child. in this case, the possible reason he would have been was precisely because of magic. now you tell me why an ordinary muggle man in this setting would even care that his child was magical? as poor as they were, he could have exploited their magic and tried to make money from it, but this type of behavior was never mentioned. it just strengthens the hc that tobias was more bothered by something else more fundamental about the magic: that his son was not just different, but different, in all the ways he knew was wrong;

- "he doesn't like anything, much" sounds like a description of a man resigned to his fate, that is, being in a marriage he couldn't get out of (divorce isn't allowed in the catholic church, and annulment is expensive and has many conditions before it can be granted, if it will be granted). the abuse we know that happened could be him retaliating to the situation by lashing out in a horrific manner whenever the final thread snapped;

- catholicism is very big on ethics, and places value in things like fortitude, temperance, piety. this isn't just taught to you via a book; people already behave like it and it's ingrained in your belief systems, so you also learn it by example. suffering is also a big thing in catholic culture. there's virtue in suffering, in subjecting yourself to copious amounts of guilt and making up for it via penance like giving yourself up for a higher cause. i mean, that already is peak severus imo, but it also works for tobias, because where else could severus have learned it? children don't just pick up this stuff on the fly; it's learned from one's parents and backed up by a very solid values system;

- we then have tobias, a born-and-raised catholic, with a wife and child whom he suddenly finds out can do things that have always been taught to him as "satanic", and yet he can't leave them due to his marriage vows, due to his sense of duty that's been drilled into him since time immemorial, and perhaps because he also does love them. it's his family, after all. severus is his only child. a child he had initially thought was blessed, a gift, but is now damned, and it's his fault, as a father. he must have done something in his life to deserve it, but what? why would god even curse him this way? but then god gives his hardest battles to his strongest soldiers, and so he will see it through. this is his burden to bear;

- now we have severus, who's raised on the same values as his father, but tempered by his mother's secret stories of the wizarding world. he would have adored his father, i think, prior to his magic being discovered, because tobias would have doted on him. they would have been avid churchgoers at some point, at least severus and tobias, and he would have been baptized in the local parish. he'd have gone to mass, would have heard it in latin, and would have learned latin enough to know it like a mother tongue. he would have recited prayers and hymns with his father in latin too. this would have given him a leg up in the wizarding world, as far as that language was concerned. it's no wonder he could create spells;

- imagine the heartache that would have occurred the moment tobias realized he was not at all normal. the rejection that would have happened, how tobias would have silently and swiftly cut off all affection, and young severus would have been left to wonder why, until eileen explained to him that his father's world and their world just could not mix, and it's always been the way with muggles (hence the somewhat anti-muggle sentiment he alludes to in canon when with lily). but severus would have also probably secretly thought it was all his fault;

- now this: even if he had rejected his father and the muggle faith he had been raised on just before going to hogwarts in order to make something new of himself, it wouldn't have worked. ironically, the wizarding world has living embodiments of the concepts he had learned at his father's knee and in the church, the same things he would have been trying to avoid and forget: the concept of souls was proven with ghosts, and eventually, horcruxes; voldemort dying and resurrecting proved power over death. the afterlife was also proven by harry's testimony from the graveyard when voldy got resurrected. voldemort himself, with his giant snake, would have also been like the living proof of satan and sin;

- i think severus would have been terrified at the realization that oh shit this stuff could actually true, and it would have pushed him towards religion, not away from it, if only to study it more. i mean i can only imagine him having a ton of theology books in his study just to read up on the subject matter. it would have also made the concept of him losing his soul upon killing dumbledore very very real and all the more terrifying, because then the sayings of him being doomed for all eternity may actually come true;

- (thou shall not kill. thou shall not kill. thou shall not kill)

- like his father before him though, he would have accepted his fate like a good soldier, and would have accepted the suffering that came with it. he also probably felt deep, deep guilt all throughout, because tobias had been right. he was exactly what his father had always been frightened of: damned in this life, and now the next. and it was all his fault.

Imagining maxwell with tons of dogs around his house makes me fully happy

it’s very wild to me that people can earnestly and sincerely say shit like “well snape fought back, so was it really bullying?” and not just like… hear how utterly gross they sound tbh. like do i have to use the “think about if this was an actual, real kid” argument to get people see that fighting back doesn’t erase victimhood or magically turn bullying into rivalry or friendly roughhousing?

idk. i feel like people say that shit really never experienced bullying in their whole damn life. bc how could they truly think that fighting back against bullies, shoving back, throwing back insults and punches, is anywhere near making things “equal”? defending yourself is not nearly the same thing as starting a fight for fun. protecting yourself is not the same as hurting someone else. like do they just like… forget how to use empathy and critical reasoning skills when it comes to snape or are they just really that clueless??

some arcane stuff again!

Wait sans canonically has an accent??

He does! Now, it’s a pretty subtle thing because UTDR characters usually have very little in the way of phonetic accents (like, the knight chess piece NPC from Deltarune has a southern accent but you can mostly only tell it because they don’t say their final ‘g’s and call Kris “horsie”) but if you pay attention to his speech, you’ll be able to pinpoint some little hints Sans has a few speech habits going on. For one, he tends to shorten the word “you” to “ya” and other similar forms of it:

He also refers to the player character as variations of “buddy” and “pal” a lot.

But what gives it away as being (what I, with my limited knowledge of American accents think it is, at least!) a cartoon Brooklyn accent is his usage of “capiche” and “forgeddaboudit”, heh.

just one more

As a Latine and someone diagnosed with OCD, I want to talk about Bruno and how he is presented in the film.

A lot of Latinos, specifically Colombians, have argued that Bruno can’t have OCD because he performs standard superstitious rituals like knocking on wood, crossing his fingers, etc.

It is important to note that superstition is incredibly common in Latino communities. I have family and friends who partake in superstitious rituals in overt ways without being diagnosed with OCD. I believe the heightened spirituality and expression in Latino communities compared to gringo communities in the US is why so many Latinos are defending his rituals and are pushing back against Bruno being seen as OCD since he is performing standard rituals within the community. This post is not to argue that these rituals aren’t common superstitions, nor that it’s wrong to interpret him as not having OCD. This is more to discuss why people interpret him as having OCD and to clarify some misconceptions about the relationship of OCD and superstitious rituals.

Let’s discuss how OCD works and then why it might apply to Bruno Madrigal.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is a subset of other anxiety disorders. People with said disorder frequently have intrusive thoughts or urges that force them to perform a certain action to ease this anxiety (compulsions). These compulsions can literally be anything. It can be repeating a certain phrase, walking a certain way, or even self destructive. These actions are designed as a preventative measure to ease anxiety, but ironically they have the opposite effect by producing more anxiety if the action is performed and only produce temporary relief.

These actions might be things that lots of neurotypical people do (ex. sorting books by color). What matters for the diagnosis is that the person in question feels like they have to perform the action and feel immense distress when they don’t.

So, how does that compare to superstitions? Superstitions are rituals that people perform also to prevent bad things from happening. The difference here is context. When people perform superstitious rituals, they do not experience immense distress at not performing the action correctly or at all. For example: “I’m hoping it doesn’t rain on my wedding day. Knock on wood.” The person in question is specifically performing this action to prevent rain from occurring on their wedding day. They do not feel like they have to perform the ritual and do not experience extreme distress as a consequence for not performing the action.

For someone with OCD, the ritual is far more specific, repetitive, and includes a deep sense of dread when not performed. For example: “I just thought that I might have rain on my wedding day, so I must knock exactly three times and if I don’t do the pattern exactly right, I will have to re-perform this action until it is. I will also have to do this ritual every single time I think of rain on my wedding day because then I jinxed it by thinking about it.” The repetition, sense of dread, and how long the ritual is present all indicate that this is a compulsion rather than just warding off bad luck.

OCD and superstitious rituals are often extremely difficult to distinguish from one another which is why it is difficult to divorce them when interpreting text. In fact, the two are often tied together because they follow the same, “If I don’t do X, then Y will happen, so I must do X,” logic.

Let’s look at Bruno now. He has a few ritualized activities. He knocks on wood while saying, “Knock, knock, knock on wood,” ending with knocking on his head.

[GIf Description: Bruno Madrigal is walking down a hallway. He begins by holding his breath and crossing his fingers. He releases his breath and begins knocking on wooden planks as he passes them ending with him knocking himself on the head.There is text at the bottom of the gif that says, “knock knock knock knock knock! knock on wood!” /end ID]

He avoids stepping on cracks while singing, “Sana, sana, colita de rana. Si no sana hoy sanara mañana.”

[Image Description: A screenshot of page 62 of the official Encanto script. The script says, “Tio Bruno: ‘Sugar.’ (he tosses sugar on her)/ And keeps walking past rows of Hanging Aloe Plants, then does a hop skip and a jump over a series of cracks on the ground. / Tio Bruno (continued): ‘Sana sana, colita de rana.’ “/end ID]

He throws salt and sugar over his shoulders.

[Gif Description: Bruno Madrigal is sitting in a rainforest clearing. He is closing his eyes and holding a pile of salt in his right hand. He flings the salt over his left shoulder and lights a match. There is text that says, “swoosh,” as he performs the ritual. /end ID]

He holds his breath and crosses his fingers when walking through entrances/exits or sometimes down hallways.

[Gif Description: Bruno Madrigal is crossing his fingers and holding his breath as he walks down a hallway. /end ID]

All of these are pretty standard rituals for superstition and bringing on good luck. I’ve certainly known people who openly knock on wood and throw sugar over their left shoulder, particularly in Latino communities. However, what matters is how it is presented and whether it is compulsory. So, let’s look at how it is presented in the film. 

He performs these rituals at very specific times in the story. His knocking on wood and holding his breath are the most common so we’ll look at those first. He knocks on wood in three separate instances. The first and second instance is when he first meets Mirabel just before and after he enters the area of the house with the cracks he has patched. The third time is when he is entering the secret entrance into the walls of the house. As for holding his breath and crossing his fingers, he first performs it when entering the hallway with all of the cracks. The second time is when he is entering the portrait into the walls.

In the first instance of both rituals, he stops the conversation he is having with Mirabel to perform these rituals and then resumes acting as if nothing happened. The final instance is at the end of a conversation with Mirabel. Superstitious behaviors don’t tend to be disruptive or distracting. Usually people knock on wood after ending a sentence whereas Bruno performs this ritual while Mirabel is speaking to him, disrupting the flow of conversation. It is also important to note that Bruno is unique for performing them, further othering his character.

OCD, is usually single-minded. Individuals can avoid performing the ritual, but doing so causes immense distress. The obtrusiveness of the action indicates that it is more likely OCD than superstition.

Looking at how it is presented in the text, it appears that these rituals are supposed to be strange and unique to Bruno. Nobody else performs them and Mirabel is confused by them.

Let’s look at what this might mean thematically.

In the film, Bruno is clearly presented as awkward and socially anxious. We can easily interpret this as a consequence of him living in the walls for a decade with Mirabel asking, “How long have you been down here?”  when Bruno introduces her to Hernando and Jorge. While she doesn’t necessarily react the same way to his various rituals, these superstitious actions can be seen as a consequence of his isolation. He is clearly supposed to be considered the weird uncle, so incorporating heightened superstition plays into that role and adds to his stigmatization as being “Bad Luck Bruno.” Having OCD would make sense as an interpretation merely to add to his othering in the film and clear instability after being isolated for so long. What’s more, Bruno can be interpreted as the “Identified Patient” in the family with how he was treated like there was something wrong with him. This constant blame and othering from his family would likely push him to want to prevent further isolation because of his bad luck. Furthermore, it feeds into a common experience in Latino households to diminish the neurodivergence/ other disabilities of members in the household. It is not that uncommon for Latino households to ignore neurodivergence because “everyone is like that.”

Personally as someone with OCD and a Latine, I read Bruno as having OCD because he performs rituals to, what appears to be, a compulsory level. He may have reasons for these compulsions and common superstition might be part of it, but this is true for my own compulsions as well. I also have to avoid stepping on cracks. I learned about the superstition of stepping on a crack and thus had to perform precise rituals in order to avoid stepping on them. I experienced and continue to experience major distress because of this superstitious ritual. Yes, it is a common superstition, but it became a compulsion for me because the bad luck became an anxiety trigger.

Looking at how Bruno is presented, it’s entirely possible that this is what happened to him based on what we know. He is related to Bad Luck and ostracized for it. He performs common rituals to ward off bad luck. He is further ostracized for said strange behavior.

Now, there is evidence online for him being OCD outside of the text by the writers.

[Image Description: A screenshot of page 61 of the Encanto script. The script says, “Tio Bruno: (tapping a wall, OCD) Knock, knock, knock. Knock on wood.” /end ID]

Clearly, he was intended to have OCD by the writers. Now, most people are not going to pull up the script to see that he is intended to have OCD explicitly by the text, but there is still evidence in the film to support it as I laid out above.

A lot of Latinos don’t want to acknowledge the possibility of him having OCD because it feels like normal aspects of our culture are being erased. The fact Bruno has OCD does not negate his latin culture, nor does it negate how superstition is tied to Latinos. Just because I relate to Bruno and his OCD doesn’t mean he’s no longer Latino and it doesn’t suddenly mean you and/or  your family have OCD. We’re all part of the same community and we’re all going to relate to certain characters in different ways. This is more just to state that superstitious rituals can be OCD rituals as well.

TL;DR: Bruno Madrigal was intended to be OCD by the text, but many Latinos are hesitant to agree because they feel it erases common Latino superstition. It is not uncommon for superstitions to become OCD compulsions and it is often difficult to distinguish the two in general which is why people interpret Bruno in different ways.