I Guess You Mean This One?

2020.7.26

heroes : rising

It's funny cus what @thr0wnawayy mentions is sort of what happens in the fight of Cider House and Bakugou, as C.H shooting water beams at high preasure was giving BK a lot of problems and was Shoto who defeated Cider (even if there's problems with that too).

Realistically a lot of quirks should be a complete danger for everyone in the battlefield, explosions are just one example. But what about any fire quirk? Shoto almost killed Shindo once, but obviously outside that very specific case Horikoshi never make a big deal out of the dangers of using fire in the wrong situation even if that's even more dangerous than explosions if you ask me.

Or what about Mina shooting literal acid, how tf that's not dangerous in any situation? We seen that shit disolving everything in the blink of an eye, how she even uses it and not kill every villain? It's silly.

Quirks are dangerous only if Horikoshi decides to make them dangerous. Which is giant flaw in the logic to introduce the concept of "villanous quirks" that seems to be a big social issue.

What's even a "villanous quirk" then? Brainwash is super horrible but burn people with fire/acid isn't?

What bothers me the most about Izuku's character is that it seems like he can't feel anything, like because he can't be angry with what happens to him, you know why he can't have negative feelings towards Bakugou? This admiration he has for the bomb boy is not normal and healthy, it reminds me of Stockholm Syndrome. Bakugou stans say that Izuku is boring, but when talking about this thing about him not being angry with Bakugou, they keep saying that we don't understand Izuku's character. What's your opinion? Am I exaggerating?

I don't think you're exaggerating. In fact, I think it's deliberate on Horikoshi's part.

I began to realize Izuku's character was regressing the minute I first came across this scene:

This is the only scene I can justify hating Izuku's character because it was such an out of pocket line coming from him. And it kind of stuck in my head for weeks because it felt so OOC. Like, Izuku of all characters pushing for Todoroki to forgive Endeavor? It made no sense to me.

But do you see how it pans to Bakugou?

To me, this is Horikoshi indirectly attempting to absolve Bakugou. Izuku's line here is trying to communicate that that's how he feels about Bakugou.

Similarly to All Might saying Izuku doesn't hold what Bakugou did against him, this is another piece of plot manipulation from Horikoshi. Bakugou's redemption is pushed through the words of others, not through his actions. Especially when it comes to how he treated Izuku.

If Izuku, at any point, was still upset or noticeably traumatized by Bakugou's actions, Bakugou couldn't have been reasonably redeemed. Because there would be no feasible reason to even have him around Izuku and the only reason Bakugou's even relevant is due to Horikoshi sticking him onto Izuku in every arc

You should add Six as the middle child!

Nine is the big bro who keeps the house in order, Six is the chaotic and charismatic middle child, Tenko is the little brat.

I'm going to leave here some old drawings of nine + afo because yes

( is this some kind of headcanon? I think so! and it's the delusional headcanon type😓)

Like father...

Like son...

I start thinking the Shigaraki expressions are hardcoded or something.

(Dad For One never beats the allegations 🌩)

I will never stop saying that the LOV members are nothing more than a bunch of beginners villains artificially inflated to stay as permanent main villains.

The most frustrating part about this is how the only way Horikoshi could make this work is at expense of better villains with way more potential from the get go.

Stain, Overhaul, Nine, the MLA, all these villains with better concepts are sacrificed as lambs to make the LOV "develop" into better villains, which is totally false because they only get away from countless impossible situations thanks to an absurd degree of plot armor. Or how the fuck Toga being a teen with a knife can represent a problem to freaking Deku of all persons?

Another example of how Horikoshi struggled to keep every active lov member relevant is how Spinner in the final arc get this forced af rivalry with Shoji about the mutant subplot, an idea that always was barely developed in the series and suddlenly becames a big deal despite Spinner never give a fuck about other mutants, and neither Shoji did.

Ironic how Horikoshi stated that his favorite Jujutsu Kaisen villain is Mahito, for obvious reasons as he's basically Shigaraki 2.0. EXCEPT by the fact Gege understood that keep Mahito in the story more than necessary would have been a slog and he killed him in a very satisfying way.

Horikoshi could've taken notes and learn that the LOV members shouldn't have made into the final battle and their arcs would be better ended much sooner, while the other villains with more potential should stay longer.

Imo the League of Villains should have never existed from the main story of MHA. They were utterly unbalanced and were so flawed that no attempt of fixing could fix them.

I get where your coming from. I

I honestly believe the LOV really needed was time to grow away from the spotlight.

Think of the LOV as leftover pizza (I know, just stick with me for a minute)

Too long in the microwave/oven/pan and it tastes like hardback, too little and it becomes soggy muddled. There's a very specific way you need to do things and that's by not overthinking it.

Hori kept the microwave on too long and the LOV's potential evaporated.

From what I can tell, MHA worked best when it had a 'Villain of the week's type of thing going on.

This was most prominent and best set up with Stain, Stain's character/arc not only expanded the world of MHA but also brought up deeper questions about Hero society

What's most important here is that Stain didn't overstay his welcome. He rolled in, made every panel count and then went out like a champ. Affecting the protagonist and those around him.

He had an impact that's felt throughout the rest of the series (There is no Internship Arc in Ba Sing Se) not inspite of his short lived presence but because of it.

At some point, Hori lost this concept and the plot went with it.

I think the main problem with the LOV started after Kamino. Before this, every member has solid, or at least tangible ideals.

The Vanguard Action Squad was the LOV at it's most raw, not perfect but functional. They felt like people, when Magne stops Spinner from pursuing Midoriya, it feels real for the world.

Simply put the LOV (much like 1A) worked best as individuals, differing worldviews and all.

So when Hori robbed the LOV of their autonomy by practically wrangling them to Shigaraki, it in turn killed the LOV, because now nothing was individual about them.

If you want an example, how about Magne's death. Her last words are the very last time anyone in the LOV asserts any belief besides Shigaraki's own.

After this the LOV barely give any resistance to Shigaraki's plans no matter how short sighted or convoluted.

Kurogiri is outright sacrificed by the narrative so that Shigaraki finally has to step up.

Shigaraki's reaction to Toga's rage and grief follwing Magne's death can be amounted to: "Trust me bro, we're doing this for us bro, please believe me bro."

It's absurd.

As for being flawed, I'll assume you mean their motives.

What needs to be understood is that the LOV (Pre Kamino) and the PLF (Post Kamino) are not the same characters

Flanderisation is the phenomenon of a characters worst traits being exacerbated over a period of time until said character is unrecognizable from their original self.

This is what Hori did the LOV and he did this intentionally.

At some point he realized that the Villains actually had more of a point than the heroes, this likely occured after the MVA arc when fans began rooting for the LOV.

To counter this Hori sabotaged multiple characters and plots in a desperate attempt to justify his woolies and unfortunately for everyone who's isn't an abuser-stan (Enji and Bakuo). The rest of the cast and world suffered greatly.

What you ended up with are characters so detached from their origins that they might as well not even be the same characters at all.

There's an image somewhere that encapsulates this perfectly, it's a 4 panel comic with two stick figures (one black and one blue). If I ever find it or someone links it I'll be sure to upload it here

First of all, here's the fanfic in case you want to give it a read:

I really love that idea of AFO watching at Muzan and his demon moons, and he being petty as fuck like always inmediately would want to have that as well.

Technically he have nomus but they lack that rule of cool factor of the demon moons, so of course would try to response with super soldiers.

Ironically AFO already have soldiers with numeric order, that being Nine, Six, (Ten)ko and the rest of the unknown prototypes. He probably would try to use that for emulate the demon moons, but will fail epically because like in canon all AFO servants always reveal against him because unlike Muzan his security methods suck.

...

Zenitsu fights are visually cool despite every one of them is the exact same. I mean is kinda his whole thing that he doesn't know any other form of thunder breathing, but since he doesn't get to many fights it doesn't get old.

...

The demon that shares VA with crusty boy is Rui, a great villain btw.

And yeah in my AU crusty would just want mindless destruction. Nobody will feel bad for him, because fuck him. He's just an obstacle in this story.

Okay... maybe he will have sobe story about his human life as Tenko Shimura and he wanted being a demon slayer and save people like Nana, who was a hashira in the past and died in combat.

But a demon attacks and kills the Shimura family and turns him into a demon as well.

Sad and all, but nobody will know the story, he still gets humilliated and killed and goes to hell while his family is in heaven (evil laughs).

What do you think about another crossover AU for SeltzerBunny? This time with Demon Slayer.

It's kinda easy to adapt the respective canon quirks of our dear couple into Breathing Styles.

Cider/Mizunami obviously would be a water breathing user, and for this AU I like to think he would be tsuguko of Sabito who survived this time.

While Midoriya is a wind breathing user (cause you know air force and float and green aesthetic... whatever) who was saved by Masachika (Yeah he's also alive at least for now) from the lower moon who killed his mother.

That lower moon would be no other than BK, who is a promising demon in ascension who is capable of generate explosions like his quirk in MHA.

And this would make Midoriya quest for revenge his principal motivation.

Still thinking about the details for this AU and who should be the other characters adapted into it, as MHA having such a big cast compared to DS force me to pick only the necessary lol.

@nyc3 hello

So while I did saw the first season of DS and do think it's well paced and better than MHA in every way -not a big achievement to behold. I didnt saw the other seasons, I got spoilers here and there. My point is how some of the names here are unknown to me.

That being said...I do like more aus for this ship.

Cinder is still a thief in this au or he seeks revenge?

How they meet and how is their dynamic?

(Almost finishing chapter 1 of my seltzer bunny fic)

How cinder enters the world of crime? I know this feels a simplistic question but it also can adds layers to world building. Like, say he was kicked out of the Himura household at 15...what he would do? Join a crime organization right away?

Assuming someone took him in. Did he wanted do crimes or was his only option?

I ask this bc...many Himuras we see are either in shitty situations or in crimes. Rei did endure a crime against her. Geten is an attack dog and Mizumi is the leader of a gang(benevolent as they all may be...it's still a gang)

And my final question (s)

How Cinder reacts to possum? See, possum wants destruction for the sake of destruction and anyone sane would say "fuck you" to that. Even if Cinder was a malicious and evil person...there was nothing to gain with Shig. (I HC many capable villains scoff and turn down working with LoV even if they are fans of Stain. Dabi is the best one and to this day I don't get why he joins LoV.)

Would Cinder and Nine be on good terms or enemies?

I mean, when you're kicked out of your house to survive in the streets isn't like you get many options.

My guess is that Mizunami started from the bottom working for some low tier gang before leave and form his own group, aka the Cider House gang.

For the moment I can't give a more fleshed out answer to that specific question, but considering Mizunami aptitude after the prison break we can assume he at least enjoys being free comit crimes as robbery as much he wants, despite having a more noble side by avoid harm civilians. Perhaps he got the habit with the years, don't know really.

...

No villain with an IQ of more than 2 digits would find Shigaraki a worthy option to work with, and we know Cider is way to smart for that.

If you think about it, not even the MLA soldiers actually liked Shigaraki as their new leader. They were pretty much against it but stayed loyal only because Re-Destro (a bigger idiot) suddlenly became Shigaraki number 1 bootlicker.

Why Dabi joined lov? Because Horikoshi wanted his dumb villain group but didn’t even bother to write a believable reason for that.

...

I would say Mizunami and Nine would be in neutral terms all things considered.

Cider would find Nine to be way more dangerous than Shigaraki, because unlike crusty boy Nine is man with strong convictions and capable to do way more damage. And also his ideology remind Mizunami to his brother Geten, which isn't q good signal.

But from Nine side I don't think he would mind Cider that much. As unlike Re-Destro who has a similar mindset and will kill you for not join his cause, Nine doesn't seem to mind of people following him or no, after all his ideal world is one in which the strongest rule but he doesn't harm the weaks just because he can (as he didn't kill the heroes he stealed quirks or Katsuma dad for example).h

You can't convince me Nine isn't the perfect fusion of AFO and Yoichi...

I mean just look:

Is Nine their secret love child or something?

It's a shame Nine was mostly ignored by the fandom, but it's understandable considering HR was released during the time MVA was at it's peak of hype and everyone treated it like the 2nd coming of Christ.

Also if you're a movie character isn't like people is going to remember you very much, expect for Rody Soul, while the others like Melissa or the Shimano kids have a little niche of fans but that's it.

But it's funny how years later there was a resurgence in the talks of how the main villain should have been and Nine got a lot more of appreciation recently, cause compared to Shigaraki and AFO his characterization feels way more solid despite he having much less content.

Also people generally accepts Nine showed to be a better fighter and more skilled user of the properties of AFO (the quirk). To add to the irony.

You know? It's kinda of funny how LOV fans treat the whole "I want to be a hero for villains" of Shigaraki as something groundbreaking, when the same concept was already introduced in the series (and was done better) with Nine.

Unlike Shigaraki, Nine literally meet his team members when he saved their lives. In Chimera's case it was when a bunch of racists were about to execute him just for being a mutant.

Nine also was a hero for them in a more thematic level, as he not only save their lives but actually give his team mates a reason for live and fight. He offered them the chance to fight for create a better world. For me it's quite remarkable how Nine despite being a homeless and chronically ill person, go for save people he view as equally oppressed by the world.

He was selfless enough to sacrifice his own health using his quirk to save Chimera despite it was destroying his body, and without expecting nothing in exchange for share a dream Nine a hand to people at their lowest point.

That's much more of an "All Might for the villains" or whatever Horikoshi tried to make Shigaraki in the final moments. Or hell Nine even acts better as a foil to Deku in the sense both are selfless individuals who fight despite their bodies are crumbling, just for the save of the persons who are important to them.

How ironic is that Nine, the original movie villain that was supposed to be just a prototype for the "final villain" of MHA, ended executing the same themes way better than Shigaraki.

Hi @nyc3 👋

A main reason as to why people treat shigaraki's I want to be a hero for the villains ideology better than nine's is simply because I assume a lot of people forgot the plot of the 2nd movie or haven't read the one shot manga chapter mha leauge of villains undercover. All of this is a shame because I heavily agree that nine's version of I want to be a hero and hope for the villains is executed and built up 10000x times better than shigarakis and nine had a fraction of the screentime that shigaraki got which is saying a lot.

Actually rewatching the film and rereading the manga one-shot has showed me that nine and shigarakis arcs are pretty similar with nine's having a better execution and shigaraki having more wasted potential.

The movie sets it clear that nine and shigaraki are supposed to be foils for one another so it makes sense that they would share parallels. However, you would expect that by the time nine is defeated that shigaraki would naraatively prove to us that he is ultimately the better character but in truth he doesn't and nine's downfall by shigaraki ends up being quite disappointing to me.

Another problem within the narrative is also the lack of interactions that nine and shigaraki have. I think that nine is essential to helping shigaraki and start to infulence him to realise that he is just a puppet and should develop a goal outside of just destruction. If shigarakis goal stays as destruction then the destruction of what? Everything? And how would that benefit anyone including him?

Nine like you said meets his teammates and saves them. He sees his teammates suffer like him and chooses to help them and they choose to help him. There is a clear relationship being developed and all the characters come together for the same goal, with similar backgrounds and varying styles yet they work.

When nines team see him in distress they run to help him and vice versa. The team has trust and overall everything that a lot of the leauges dynamics and development lacks.

Nine seeks destruction but his path is clear. He seeks to liberate and let nature flow its course with the strong overtaking the weak and finally being leaders instead of feared and abused because they don't fit into the small little box that is the mha's status quo. Nine plans to get stronger while being fully conscious and knowing the consequences. He makes a logical and heroic decision where we see him realise that he is trading his own autonomy and agency in becoming a lab rat all in exchange for power and a slim chance at achieving his goal.

This is all contrasted with shigaraki and his actions. We don't see his goal of destruction develop into a much more consistent and precise idea like destroying the giver and status quo. We don't see shigaraki fully conscious to come to the conclusion that yes the doctor is evil but he needs power. We lack everything from shigaraki and the information of chapter 419 just makes his character worse as shigaraki was a lab rat through and through.

Horikoshi tries to make shigaraki the better character but nine outclassed him in every way possible from the traumatic beginnings, to the developed flawed goal and to the final bitter end where we see nine crumble due to various factors 1)shigarakis decay and 2) his illness whereas shigaraki dies due to afo still being a lab rat that fulfills his purpose.

All of this reminds me of the ask that said mha's manga ending is a sloppy edited 2nd movie ending (except I was only looking at it from a hero perspective but it even applies to the villains)

Nine deserved better!

Thanks spinji 🤍

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