Trauma Bonding

do not know how to word my feelings on your post, but it feels very strange to say that because your DID experiences are misery, that means DID itself is miserable, and to imply that non-DID-having bodies can't experience being a system is weird.

yes, what you went through sounds awful, and yes, DID to you would be miserable, but DID does not mean misery. it means (some level of) disorder. for people who are polyfragmented (especially through things like RAMCOA/TBMC), yes, this CAN mean a LOT of misery, but us systems who do not suffer with that same level of misery aren't less of a system because of that difference.

while you can explain your experiences as more painful in your perspective, playing trauma olympics and denying other people's own experiences is weird. it's heavily invalidating, especially as someone who would probably fall under a disordered traumagenic diagnosis, and who loves their system and who sees it as hope and not misery (as it is the light in the darkness, the company that protected me through terrible things. that is not misery for me)

(also, most endogenic systems are not claiming to have DID, not self diagnosed or professionally diagnosed. it is a different kind of plural systemhood that is not connected to having DID. so to say that being endogenic is taking away "everything that DID is about" is just... strange.)

I am not playing the trauma Olympics by saying that what I went through makes me miserable. For you to suggest acknowledging my existence as a trauma survivor is invalidating is really not good.

Also I should clarify: you can love parts and even most of your system, but you cannot deny the fact that it is born out of misery and so it is not all sunshine and rainbows. It comes with PTSD, or one of its forms.

Also, endogenic is taking away everything DID is about because the only scientifically recognized way to be a system is with either DID (or a variant like HC or C), OSDD-1, or UDD. And these, like all dissociative disorders, are trauma disorders. To me being endogenic has always meant cherry picking a glamorized version of the symptoms of these disorders, as I said in the post.

I lost the posts we wanted to respond to, but I think I remember what we were gonna say

🗝️🏷️ RAMCOA with vague examples, syscourse?

Highly Complex DID

What “Complex” Means:

From what we’ve read, it seems like Complex refers to the specific disorder’s criteria. C-PTSD is PTSD with a different presentation; in this case, multiple/prolonged trauma causes difficulty tracing symptoms in the same ways as other PTSD cases. C-DID is DID with a different presentation; here it’s more intricate mechanisms that lead treatment down another path. Even CDD, which is dissociation into self-states instead of one dissociating self-state. The C just means that thing, plus some extra. There are going to be cases where a Complex patient is actually more simple to care for than a non-Complex patient — it’s just a matter of narrowing it down with more criteria.

Highly Complex:

As far as I know, there are no other communities that use Highly Complex as a label. It’s a specific word to whittle down the topic even further; C-DID but with more specifiers. For HC-DID, the specifiers are programming and structuring. Every human who experienced programming and lived is a RAMCOA survivor. Not every RAMCOA survivor considers themself a HC-DID system. Some survivors didn’t form systems at all. Others don’t think their system qualifies. Maybe people just don’t want to identify themselves this way. Even if it were a medical diagnosis — it’s not — forcing people to use labels they don’t want is rude at best.

What RAMCOA Is:

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, Organized Abuse. Surviving any of those is enough to belong in the community.

Ritual Abuse - maltreatment (of anyone) including ceremonies or traditions. It can be anything from religious sacrifice to underage marriage.

Mind Control - manipulation of psychological processes. I genuinely don’t know if there has to be negative intent or a specific plan from the abuser to qualify, but even targeted McDonald’s ads make use of mind control (probably not abusively, I’ve never looked into that).

Organized Abuse - maltreatment that involves multiple perpetrators collaborating in their perpetration. If two people meet at a bar and then hurt a child together, that’s enough. It can be elaborate groups like churches or criminal groups, but the only requirement is more than one perp.

It can be one or a mix of any, but it’s still RAMCOA. Usually, the DID community uses RAMCOA to talk about surviving programming (Trauma-Based Mind Control for the purpose of creating a system), and we label our systems Highly Complex.

Extra Criteria:

To be Highly Complex, survivors are usually closest to C-DID. But wait, there’s more!

HC-DID systems also receive:

Programming - I only know of TBMC being used to split off dissociative alters, but I’d budge on that if someone knew otherwise. Abusers control the child (body) by causing calculated suffering until they get the results they want. Perps split off alters with goals in mind for them, and continue to break them until they fit the desires of the abusers. This control extends to every other aspect of HC-DID, and is the reason another label exists at all.

Layers - different dimensions of innerworld. Sometimes this looks like literal other realms inside, but it could also be like floors of a building or planets or other separate worlds. Layers are often assigned a name or cue that allows outsiders to maneuver a system’s landscape from the external world. Perps don’t go in as much as they bring out, by assigned alter or other cued manipulations.

Subsystems - alters with alters, except also programmed. Cues are assigned to each subsystem alter as well, usually related to the subsystem as a collective. Just like programmed singlet alters, subsystems can be arranged by outsiders for memories, tasks, etc.

Sidesystems - kind of multiple systems within the metasystem. Groups might be contained in a separate innerworld pocket, unwilling to communicate with other alters, or otherwise unreachable in the same way other groups are. These sidesystems usually have a collective task, or function as a whole other system in the body. Details of what they do and why are also conditioned.

Programs - conditioning attached to cues. Programs might force amnesia, give body memories, set off chains of tasks, or any other typical or atypical system capability. Programs might be perceived as wires and buttons, or files, or whatever else programmers decide.

Not all HC-DID systems will have the same level of programming. Not all programmed systems will be more “complex” that other systems. Having a term to describe our unique experiences helps a lot of survivors to feel understood, especially if they’re already open about their past.

RAMCOA survivors are kept in a strange position online and irl. We’re used as examples of “unimaginable trauma” and “extreme abuse”, but are largely told to sit down and shut up; we’re too dangerous to speak up about what was done to us, too unbelievable, or too much at all. Finding help is a nightmare, sucks butt for everyone involved, and is fairly necessary for long term recovery. Like many systems, we beat the odds time and time again to call ourselves “survivors” instead of “victims”. Like many systems, we are rejected by most of society. Unlike most systems, we are a secret within system communities.

Being Complex is not being special, it’s just a haughty way to say there are extra requirements. Recovery for many systems is already a stretch. For HC-DID systems, we are healing the impossible.

Thank you for running this blog. I was held in troubled teen industry facilities for all of my teenagerhood, and am severely traumatized as a result, and it's been extremely hard to find words to describe what I went through to other systems or to trauma therapists.

It feels "too much", like there's no way this could all have happened to me, and I've been accused of lying about the organized abuse that went on there. Sometimes it feels almost like i AM lying, though I know I'm not.

Although feeling like I have "too much" trauma is something that I have to continue working on personally, I want to say thank you for pointing me in the direction of a framework that I can research and use that fits me more than any other one I've seen before.

I wish that none of us went through the horrors we went through, but I'm glad that there's a community out there and people talking about the things that have affected me. Thank you again for what you do running this blog.

Before anything else — thank you. This is an incredibly kind message and I'm really glad that you could find solace in this blog. I aim to provide resources that may not be (physically or emotionally) acessible otherwise, and highlight lesser-discussed aspects of RAMCOA.

The troubled teen industry is definitely part of the wider picture of organized abuse, and I wish it was put in that context more. Unfortunately, most discussions of RAMCOA focus on early childhood manifestations, and situations primarily focused on adolescents, adults, seniors aren't as referenced. Basically, the older the victim, the less likely it is to be included in definitions of RAMCOA; which is a shame, because those perspectives are crucial. Abusive care homes & inpatient facilities, prisons, and yes, troubled teen facilities are all forms of organized abuse in my mind, but the strong correlation with pedophile rings and cults has... Alienated? Many people from describing their experiences as OA.

I totally understand the feeling of having "too much trauma", and I feel like many survivors in general, not just ones of RAMCOA, can relate to that sentiment. "It's just too unlikely for all these things to have happened," I'll say to myself, "I must be exaggerating." Something that's helped me is the idea that some predators can smell blood in the water, and if all you know is hardship, it's hard to break out of hardship. Experiencing layers of trauma isn't... Rare, and you're not lying about it.

Once again, thank you. If you need any resources specific to the troubled teen industry, let me know. There's not a ton of research on it in the context of RAMCOA like I said, but I'm sure I'll find something of use.

Wishing you a gentle and fulfilling recovery. Aisling

I do want to say a thing I missunderstood about DID when I was "new to it" was that I thought all repressed memories were things I did not remember happening, and while some of them are like that, MOST of the "recovered memories" was more often things I had written off as normal, didn't realize how much damage it took and only realizing it then, or things that were blurred over that I cpuld guess what happened but not actually see it clearly.

For the first year or two we said we never had any sexual trauma, not because we didn't know OF the events, but that we did not remember how bad it was or the damage dealt. We later recovered some of that lost details, emotions, and damage and was left to process it as a "recovered memory"

Lineart by @theywhoshantbenamed

Colours by @freshwolfprofessoreggs

You can't pick and choose which mental illnesses you support.

Yes, keep supporting people with autism and ADHD.

Keep supporting people with Depression and Anxiety.

But also support people with Schizophrenia and Dissociative Identity Disorder.

Also support people with ASPD and NPD.

Also support people with OCD and BPD.

There are so many more, and you should support these people with them.

They are struggling with these.

They did not choose to have these.

Types of Timeloss

This is based completely on personal anecdote. Hope this is helpful for someone.

Soft time loss: There are a lot of different forms of soft time loss. Zoning out and feeling numb/dissociated is one of the most clear signs that you are being influenced by an alter or that one is co-present. If you can only remember the gist of what is happening in your life, you are losing a lot of time actually.

It can be helpful to remind yourself of what you’re doing day by day and month by month. As you close your day, keep a journal and remind yourself of what happened. At the end of the month, try to remember what happened, then re-read your daily journal. At first, the separation between alters may make this feel weird. There is often a lot of dissonance for multiples when they try to look at and remember the activities of other alters - a reflexive feeling of shame, fear, disgust. If you push through it, it’s so worth it because it begins the process of integrating past those barriers. I found that unless I reminded myself of what was happening, within a month things would fall away from me.

Some people experience a form of time loss where they will remember things better if the alter responsible for those events is co-present, and will find they have an inconsistent memory where sometimes they remember another alter’s activities, and other times they do not. It’s not uncommon for someone to initially remember what happened but for this knowledge to then become compartmentalized to the identities responsible for it over the course of a few days or weeks, leaving things that seemed clear initially in the dark.

Hard time loss: A sudden jump in time. This may be severe enough to be noticed by the main active parts of the personality. This is often caused by active trauma. A lot of people, especially multiples who are no longer being abused and traumatized, don’t have a lot of episodes of this. A certain degree of integration happens when safety is attained that makes it less likely. Instead, people who are safe will often experience co-consciousness or when they switch, they retain awareness of their actions.

Sleep-induced time loss: Alternate identities can switch in during sleep, although not everyone has this form of switching. I’ve noticed people with this type of switching generally have a comorbid sleep disorder like narcolepsy. This is usually caused by alters trying to hide their activities from another alter. If someone is abused in an organized ring as a child, they may have been trained (by doing things like associating different alters to different phases of sleep) to automatically switch during certain states of mind. People who have sleep induced time loss can sometimes end up trapped in their internal world as a lucid dream. This may not be noticed for a very long time by the person because they think their dreams are normal dreams - but actually, while they are dreaming, they may be active in another identity, making this not a true dream but rather is indicative of being stuck in the internal world while another identity is fronting. People who learn lucid dreaming can learn to cross the barrier between this type of extreme switching by forcing themselves to wake up while another identity is active (I did this once and woke up in the middle of a programming session.) It can be difficult to tell if you are dreaming or stuck in the internal world and it may be a while before you can catch yourself. I once caught one of my alters trying to go on an online date when I accidentally woke myself up during what I thought was a lucid dream in my internal world.

Co-consciousness amnesia: Some people have the problem where they will lose time when they are present because another alter who is actively observing/fronting will do something for a short amount of time, like say a few things to another person or take a few steps towards making breakfast, and the other identity will not notice they’ve done these things or will feel as though they have zoned out and will have a vague awareness of their actions.

Dissociative Psychosis: The apparently normal part(s) of the self are completely overwhelmed by emotional parts that are stuck in an active flashback. People with a lot of alters may end up in a cycle of flashbacks through different portions of their memory, and may spend most or all of the time in a flashback. These flashbacks can become severe enough to cause psychosis where the person can no longer tell people from the past and present apart. The person generally feels as though they are living in a fugue state. This is usually due to active trauma or a medication side effect causing rapid integration into a traumatic part of the memory. Dissociative psychoses can mimic manic episodes.

Really what you’re doing is making RA systems who aren’t polyfrag less able to access your community

RAMCOA is classified as “extreme abuse” for a reason. And especially MC, which is really why the HC-DID label is a thing at all.

MC quite literally breaks a child down so the abuser can create whatever they want and make the child do whatever they want. The process that abusers use to create MC-based systems is inherently complex and will as such create an extremely complex and multifaceted system structure.

The label “HC-DID” harms no one. Nobody is being forced to use it. It is a label for a smaller group of severely traumatized people to create a community under.

Some Roles within DID/OSDD Systems:

Protectors:

Protectors are alters who assume the responsibility of safeguarding the system from harm, both internally and externally. They may manifest as fierce, assertive, or even aggressive identities, employing strategies such as vigilance, hypervigilance, or assertiveness to shield the system from perceived threats. Protectors may emerge as a response to past trauma, aiming to ensure the safety and survival of the system.

Caretakers/Nurturers:

Caretakers or nurturers within a DID/OSDD system play a pivotal role in providing emotional support, guidance, and care to other alters. They exhibit qualities of compassion, empathy, and tenderness, offering comfort and reassurance to those in need. Caretakers often act as a stabilizing force, fostering a sense of security and nurturing the well-being of the system.

Gatekeepers:

Gatekeepers possess the crucial role of managing access to memories, trauma, or specific information within the system. They act as a protective barrier, regulating the flow of information to prevent overwhelming experiences or triggering events from inundating the entire system. Gatekeepers ensure that the system maintains a balanced and manageable level of awareness regarding past experiences.

Host/Primary Identity:

The host or primary identity is the alter who assumes the role of fronting and interacting with the external world most frequently. They often serve as the primary point of contact and may possess the most comprehensive understanding of the individual's life experiences. The host identity typically manages daily responsibilities, social interactions, and the coordination of tasks within the external environment.

Executive Managers:

Executive managers are alters who possess organizational skills, problem-solving abilities, and the capacity to oversee the functioning of the system. They excel in coordinating tasks, managing schedules, and ensuring efficient communication and collaboration among alters. Executive managers often contribute to the overall stability and productivity of the system.

Child Alters:

Child alters represent younger aspects of the individual's personality. They assume childlike roles within the system, embodying innocence, vulnerability, and curiosity. Child alters may hold memories, emotions, or experiences from specific developmental stages and may require nurturing and support from other alters within the system.

Communicators:

Communicators serve as mediators, facilitating internal communication among alters within the system. They bridge gaps in awareness, mediate conflicts, and ensure that information and experiences are shared effectively. Communicators contribute to the cohesiveness and integration of the system, fostering understanding and collaboration among alters.

Helpers:

Helpers are alters who possess specialized skills, talents, or knowledge that contribute to the overall functioning of the system. They may excel in areas such as creativity, problem-solving, artistic expression, or specific domains of expertise. Helpers contribute their unique abilities to support the system and aid in individual and collective growth.

Conclusion:

Roles within DID/OSDD systems showcase the multifaceted nature of the identities that exist within an individual. Protectors, caretakers, gatekeepers, hosts, executive managers, child alters, communicators, and helpers all play vital roles in the internal dynamics, functioning, and healing of the system. Recognizing and understanding these diverse roles is crucial for fostering empathy, facilitating effective communication, and promoting integration within the individual's journey towards wholeness and well-being.

Adhd really is like... bedroom is slightly messy it would be nice to tidy it some

bedroom is very messy I really should tidy up

bedroom is chaotic I NEED to tidy but my brain says no. Why. Whyyy.

I guess I’ll just have to watch where I step in here for the rest of my life. The mess is everywhere. I’m one with the mess.

A sudden Need to Clean™ makes you get the room looking like some fancy homes magazine cover, and you think “I’ll never ever let it get that bad again, and then...

bedroom is slightly messy (uh oh)