It's So Frustrating Because We Have Characters Like Marc And Nathaniel And Rose With Powers That Fit

Thoughts on Justine Flanner

She doesn't appear in a lot of fanfiction, but she's usually cold, blunt, and aloof until something happens to make her warm up.

I don't think she's like that.

Her first (chronological) appearance was in "Grudge Match" when she was shown at the Robot Rumble. She seemed to be friends with the other fans - she was shown to sit with some of them, laugh, and gossip, so she has no problems socializing with people who share her interests.

In "Partners" she's shown to not want Kim's help on the project, but lets her help after Kim admits to going over her work and looking up about half the words to understand it.

(She also had no problems autographing a picture for Professor Allenford when he asked.)

So, it appears that she was more impressed that Kim tried than if Kim had understood immediately.

And, since she appreciates people trying, it's probably not an issue of thinking herself above those less intelligent than her, it's an issue of not typically having a partner who even tries to understand what she's doing.

She had no problems with Kim after Kim put in the effort to understand her project.

That probably doesn't happen a lot, which is why she was dismissive at first.

But she is shown to have friends, or at least people she likes spending time with. And she is shown to be kind to people when they actually try. She doesn't require people to have the same natural intelligence as her, just to be willing to put in the effort.

I'm sure everyone, at some point, has understood having to carry a group project on their own. And understood the hatred of group projects that comes with it.

So, if she's a bit cold and distant at first, I can't really blame her.

Could you?

Not sure if you considered this, but does Ms. Bustier's partner agree with her teaching methods, given how supportive she was in canon?

I imagine Giselle gets a very...biased reimagining of what happens in Bustier's class. She's only got Caline to go off of sooooo...

You know, now that you mention it...

The girls at my elementary school had crushes, but definitely not on adults. Teenagers were the oldest they had crushes on. The boys were the same.

Adults just seem so old at that age, so Jimmy's mom, Beautiful Gorgeous, and Princess Quin Shi "Peggy" Sue should've just seemed old to them, not hot.

I mean, they are attractive, to adults. And teenagers. Prepubescent children, not so much.

And, while I'm sure 11-year-olds were allowed some freedom, "One of Us" has Cindy returning from a competition out of town, and she exits the bus alone. That's an amount of freedom Cindy wouldn't have been allowed for legal reasons.

Not to mention, "Men at Work" has them getting jobs, despite being 10 at that point. Again, legally, this would not have been allowed.

It's a cartoon, not everything has to be accurate, I know. I'm not asking for accuracy, I'm asking for shows about children to remember that the main characters are children.

The show had some great plots that make sense for 11-year-olds:

Jimmy's upset at being the shortest in class

Jimmy's upset over not being athletic

School science fair

Candy-selling competition

Trying to make the perfect candy

Sheen's afraid of being held back (again!)

Jimmy doesn't want to pick up his clothes

Sheen's action figure goes missing

And more

But as the show went on, the romance aspect got emphasized a lot more. Of course, by that time, most of us were invested in the main ships, but looking back, it seems weird how much romance they put in the show.

I don't hate romance, but it feels weird to make it a central plot element in a show about elementary school-aged children. Especially when some of those romantic feelings are directed at adults.

Not to mention having it be such a flip-flop, back and forth, will they won't they thing.

The show would have been fine if the romance aspect wasn't so heavily emphasized at the end. Even though we liked the main ships, they weren't why we watched the show.

Well, time for another opinion! This one's about an older Nickelodeon show, Jimmy Neutron! It's very simple: the show would've made way more sense if the characters were teenagers instead of 11-year-olds. Things like:

Jimmy being allowed to fly around the world in a homemade rocket

Jimmy being allowed to fly into space

Jimmy being allowed to work in his lab unsupervised

Pretty much anything Jimmy does

The kids routinely go places like amusement parks or Cafés by themselves

The boys developing crushes at the drop of a hat

Cindy & Jimmy flip-flopping back & forth on their feelings for each other

Carl's crush on Jimmy's mom (still creepy, but makes more sense if he's a hormonal teenager)

The boys' brief crushes on Beautiful Gorgeous

These are all things that would make sense if the characters were teenagers. 11-year-olds just don't act like this. Trust me, I was 11 when the show was airing. I was in that age group, no one at my school acted like that. Crushes were only on classmates or teenage celebrities, we weren't allowed to go out by ourselves, and we would've needed supervision just to cook, nevermind the kind of science Jimmy was doing.

This level of drama, romance, and personal freedom, would make more sense for teenagers than children. Shows about kids can be fun, but you need to remember to have them act like kids.

Reblogging from myself to add an update: Upon recent rewatch, Kim offers to help Bonnie, Bonnie doesn't even ask, certainly doesn't force her to.

Then Kim leaves on a mission with Wade, forcing Ron to set up the Meet the Queen event to find Bonnie a new boyfriend, a job he didn't want at all, which leaves me with all kinds of conflicted feelings.

When the team decides to head to Italy, Bonnie is upset at feeling abandoned, so Ron offers to have her come to Venice with them.

So, Kim offers to help, and then immediately abandons the job, forcing Ron to pick up the slack. Not happy about that.

Also, I don't blame her for harshly rejecting Larry since he was picking his ear when he approached her.

Nor do I blame her for being so upset that Brick dumped her, since he had apparently promised that he'd be back for homecoming.

I do blame her for moving in on someone else's boyfriend. Regardless of my feelings on Ron/Bonnie as a pairing, moving in on Ron when he was already dating Kim was uncool.

What are your thoughts on Bonnie cheating to become the homecoming queen and the fact that she tried to steal Ron from Kim, going so far as to kissing him. Not to mention the audacity of her asking Kim to find her a new boyfriend not caring if she’s bothering her or not.

That was definitely a horrible thing to do. I don't justify that, nor do I condone it. This is one thing I do not excuse. I'm not overly fond of Kim, and I clearly prefer Bonnie, but I do agree that I'm on Kim's side on this one.

That being said, I don't actually recall Bonnie asking Kim to help her find a new boyfriend, I think Kim just did that on her own.

Actually, Ron was the one to set up the "Meet the Queen" event to find Bonnie a new boyfriend.

But, it has been a while since I saw that episode in full, so I could be misremembering things.

I know it's an old show, but my sister proposed one of the craziest possible AUs for Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Background info: We're both convinced that the Ty sisters are descended from air nomads. They're all good at acrobatics, and their faces look just like Aang.

So, for the AU:

Firstly, Kuzon never claims to be from the colonies, just that his family does things a bit differently

When Kuzon gets into trouble, the school doesn't ask to meet his parents, they say they've already contacted his parents.

See, a free-spirited kid who disrespects the teachers, dances, gets into fights, and "does things differently" has got to be from the Ty family.

They assume no one ever mentioned Kuzon because, compared to his sisters, he is quiet and respectful, so he must get overlooked quite often.

Mr. and Mrs. Ty did show up. They were planning to just clear up the misunderstanding, but then they see a young boy who looks just like their daughters, and is on the verge of a panic attack, and just roll with it.

"You know why we know that the history book is wrong. We're not going to punish him for being right."

"He didn't start that fight, so we're not going to punish him for defending himself."

"Kuzon, sweetie, you can't dance while playing the tsungi horn, you'll hit the other students."

The Ty family might not show it often, but they are nobility, so it's not exactly the best idea to get them upset.

Mrs. Ty has air nomad heritage, and she and her husband disagree with most of the current Fire Nation policies. They've hoped to make good changes, but it's not easy.

Aang tells them he's the avatar after he finds out about their heritage.

The promise not to sell him out, and ask for air bending lessons.

Not much else planned here, but Ozai does get defeated quicker.

Not the same anon but Kim has the right to get annoyed at the coupon thing, that scene gave me second hand embarrassment and i think is incredible ooc when Ron in previous seasons had already done things like get a job and being good at it and done things like buy Kim jackets plus there were the Naco royalties.

I feel like at that point, money shouldn’t be an issue specially for Ron, this is a case where the narrative ignored previous episodes to make a situation feasible. i didn’t like it either because Ron was made to look pretty bad as well.

His comedic relief status allows this scene to happen and is juts harmless comedy at the end of the day , but I wasn’t fan of how his character was portrayed in season 4 Ron usually got flanderized just for some cheap humor.

So, honestly, I'd be embarrassed, too.

Though, I can't remember the last time a high schooler, even a senior one, put so much stock into going to nice restaurants and not having to use the coupon and/or kid's menu to pay for it.

A real high schooler probably wouldn't care too much about how much the dates cost, but they would be embarrassed by the "doofy" and "stupido" thing, so I'll give you that.

Let me try making my complaint clear; Kim could fix the problems with their dating sitch herself, she just won't.

If Kim is embarrassed, she could offer to pay. She got a job way easier than Ron did.

Not to mention that, according to the narrative, Ron lost all his Naco money, and isn't shown ever getting more, so it's not like she thought he was rich again.

But Kim doesn't offer to pay, and also complains about how their date nights have gotten stale.

Again, I can't remember real high schoolers putting so much stock into doing something new and exciting for dates.

When Ron takes her to a nice dinner at the Actuary of Year Awards, where Ron's dad is receiving an award, she mopes the whole time.

She doesn't even pretend to be happy for Mr. Stoppable, she just mopes.

Can you imagine being happy if your significant other, one you've known most of your life, moped and pouted at a ceremony where your dad was receiving an award?

I don't think either of them is too OOC in "The Big Job" - Ron doesn't really like doing a lot of work for things he's not interested in, and Kim has a bad habit of caring too much about the price tag.

And that's honestly the worst part; they are acting in character.

But that doesn't make it right. Or fair.

Why does Ron get criticized for a having to use coupons to fund their dates to places most high schoolers couldn't afford to go to anyways?

Why is it bad that Ron doesn't pay for their dates without coupons, but not bad that Kim doesn't pay for their dates at all?

Sure, the whole "you're twelve" thing was embarrassing, but Kim's complaint wasn't about that one incident, it's about him using coupons at all.

If Kim thinks their date nights have hit a rut, she should probably offer ideas for dates, instead of just complaining about it and moping when Ron actually does take her to a new, fancy event for a date.

Okay, I get that the Actuary of the Year Awards probably wasn't very exciting, but it was Ron's dad receiving an award, she could have at least been happy for him.

But she pouts instead.

Basically, it feels like Ron is putting all the effort into pleasing Kim, and Kim keeps complaining about it. She offers no actual solutions, or gratitude for how hard Ron's trying, but complains about it all the same.

And she's not putting in that same amount of effort to please Ron.

Why don't they ever do something Ron would like for a date? Like go see "The Finger Guy" or a wrestling event?

I mean, they probably go to Bueno Nacho all the time, but it's not as though Kim doesn't like the place - she's willingly gone there without Ron before.

So, why is Kim the only one who gets special dates?

They're supposed to be partners, but their dates only reflect Kim's desires and interests; none of Ron's desires or interests are shown for their dates.

Ron seems to be the only one putting in effort to please their partner.

And that's not how healthy relationships work.

Thoughts on Bonnie?

I have been waiting for this ask.

I'm probably going to get hated for it...

I don't think Bonnie's as bad as we're supposed to believe she is.

Sure, Bonnie's catty, mean, rude, petty, shallow, selfish, and more.

But that seems to be targeted 90% to Kim, 5% to Ron, and 5% to everyone else.

In other words, Bonnie doesn't seem overly mean to anyone but Kim.

Her fellow cheerleaders are seen hanging out with her instead of Kim quite often. And if someone as nice as Tara or pragmatic as Crystal prefers hanging out with Bonnie over Kim, there's probably a good reason for it.

And it might be the fact that, had it not been for Kim, Bonnie would've never stooped to sabotage in the first place. ("Return to Wannaweep")

Or it could be the fact that Bonnie can actually keep her commitment to the squad, and was willing to put in a lot more work to help the squad. ("Number One")

(I still don't think she willingly gave up the Captain position, especially not to Kim.)

Or that she would've been better able to be Chair of the Dance Committee, since she could fulfill her obligations and get Smash Mouth to perform, but Kim didn't care if Bonnie was better, Kim's own pride and ego, and rivalry with Bonnie, were more important than actually getting the job done. ("Queen Bebe")

Even Ron couldn't see a problem with Bonnie being the Chair of the committee.

(And I still have no idea what "throne" Kim was referring to.)

I wouldn't blame other people for deciding Kim is too competitive to hang out with regularly. She doesn't seem to put a lot of value in enjoying things, just doing them, and doing them the right way (her way).

And from what we've seen of Bonnie's romantic relationships, she dates guys who are genuinely nice and doesn't seem to be very mean to them either. She says Brick is "cute" when he can't think, instead of just calling him stupid or dumb. And the date we've seen her on was to a horror movie, so either Bonnie likes horror movies, she let Brick pick the movie, or some combination of both.

(I don't blame her for dumping soda in Kim's lap, Kim was talking throughout the movie, and being rude and condescending about it to boot.)

And from what I remember of high school, no one who's as mean as Bonnie supposedly is would actually have that many friends. They wouldn't even really have a lot of followers.

And Bonnie didn't just win the vote for Captain unanimously, she won it with everyone other than Kim being enthusiastic about her being Captain.

I think Bonnie's biggest issue with Kim is that Kim quite literally has things handed to her, doesn't have to work for much, and people are too enamored by the hero to notice the person. And Kim treats her best friend horribly which, shockingly, is not something we actually see Bonnie doing.

I think Bonnie's biggest issue with Ron is that Ron is so slavish towards Kim, and Bonnie sees it as pathetic and loser behavior. When Ron distances himself from Kim, she not only has no problems hanging out with him, but dates him, or tries to, and is unequivocally supportive of him. Which is...interesting, as it implies her issue isn't with Ron himself, but with how Ron acts around Kim.

But more to the point: the "mean girl" of the show treats people better than our hero does, and that says a lot about both of them.

Thoughts on "The Ron Factor"

So, obviously, this is an episode I have a lot of thoughts on.

I will acknowledge that Kim does have some cool moves in this episode.

But, it also seems fair to acknowledge that, despite those cool moves, Kim didn't defeat the bad guy.

That was done by Ron, with a little help from Rufus.

It's also worth mentioning that, yes, Kim is dependent on Ron to succeed on missions, as shown in "Bueno Nacho".

And it's not fair to anyone, Ron especially, that, after Ron defeats the bad guy, he decides to give Kim all the credit.

Kim has impressive skills and definitely demonstrated them in this episode, but that doesn't mean Ron isn't a factor in her success.

And a role model would recognize that yes, Ron is important to her success, but that doesn't mean she's not amazing too.

She'd be supportive of Ron and happy for him, while still making Global Justice see that she's still amazing.

(And, no one said she wasn't amazing, they just said Ron was probably the key factor to her success.)

Other thoughts, in no particular order:

So, did Betty and Sheldon actually lose their eyes, or are they just being dramatic?

(I wouldn't put it past them.)

Is Sheldon's robotic hand prosthetic or some kind of glove? If prosthetic, how did he lose it?

Realistic sibling relationship: Betty and Sheldon immediately resort to childish squabbling when near each other, despite having spent the entire rest of the episode being ominous and brooding.

(The Cain Instinct is strong with these two.)

Honestly, that Chaos Theory thing might not be far off. And if Wade thinks there's some merit to it, I'm inclined to believe him.

I realize they said Ron was a "non-factor" at the end, but there is canon evidence that contradicts this.

It's probably that Ron is a factor, but not in any way that would actually show up on tests.

Thus, they assumed there was no "Ron Factor".

Yeah, Kim feels unrelatable. Her life is too perfect, she's too naturally talented at everything, her parents are too permissive, etc. Kim's life is not relatable. At all. Sure, she's a great fantasy, but when you're older, you want relatability more than fantastically perfect.

At some point, it just stops being fun to watch someone who's life is unattainably perfect.

I actually left out the pre-school Halloween costume because, due to his age at the time, I wasn't sure if that would count as a disregard for gender norms.

Also, in the episode "Grudge Match" his rules were that Zita was out of his league and he shouldn't even try asking her out because of it. Less to do with gender norms and stereotypes, and more to do with his perception of himself.

(He's also more surprised that Vivian's boyfriend isn't as good looking as her and that he's a robot than he is that she's a scientist.)

Kim did call his rules ridiculous, but the early part of the episode makes it clear that, despite this, Kim actually does believe Ron doesn't stand a chance with Zita.

Ron: What kind of chance do I have a girl like that anyway? Kim: Honest opinion or best-friend fudge? Monique: Fudge it, girl! Kim: It doesn't hurt to ask.

And it's a bit offensive, because they knew nothing about Zita at the time, so the only reason to think Ron doesn't stand a chance is because she just has a low opinion of Ron in general.

(I'm not going to get into it here, I have several other posts about it.)

But thanks for your commentary, because I really do appreciate it.

I believe that Ron Stoppable is neurodivergent. Many of his traits line up with being neurodivergent.

Disregard for Gender Norms

In "Mind Games" Ron mentions liking the skirt on Kim's cheer uniform.

In "Attack of the Killer Bebes" he got a movie makeup kit as a birthday present.

In "Two to Tutor" he is revealed to love baking and is mentioned as being interested in interpretive dance.

He becomes a fan of the Oh Boyz in "Oh Boyz".

He becomes a fan of "Kim Style" in "Kimitation Nation".

He is implied to be interested in Britina dolls in "Queen Bebe".

These are all things typically regarded as feminine interests, but when Ron has his crisis about being a man in "Ron the Man", none of that stuff is what he's concerned about. He's not afraid any of that stuff makes him less of a man, and he feels no shame about them (most of the time).

Lack of Concern for Popularity

There are several times where Ron is shown to not care about popularity, though there are also several times where Ron is shown to care a great deal about how others perceive him.

Obsessive Tendencies

In "October 31st" Ron is shown to still be interested in going trick-or-treating, despite the fact that most people would have outgrown this hobby by this point.

In "Grande Size Me" Ron becomes obsessed with proving Barkin wrong about the food pyramid, and begins behaving in a defensive manner over it.

(Of course, Ron invented the Naco, which was the specific item Barkin was criticizing, so it's a bit understandable.)

In "Dimension Twist" Ron spends three days straight watching cable television.

Ron has a tendency to become obsessed with his interests, and defensive if someone doesn't like them.

Hobbies and Interests

In "Monkey Fist Strikes" Ron is revealed to be interested in video games, and this is mentioned again in "Steal Wheels".

In "Larry's Birthday" it's revealed that Ron has regular meetups with Larry and Larry's friends.

In "Queen Bebe" Ron is implied to have an interest in Britina dolls.

Ron is a fan of the Oh Boyz in "Oh Boyz", even when they're so unpopular no one goes to their concerts. In addition to this, he doesn't even realize they're no longer popular.

Ron may not having been looking for a naked mole rat specifically, but he does consider them to be cool pets.

In "Two to Tutor" there is a brief mention of Ron having an interest in interpretive dancing.

He's still interested in trick-or-treating in "October 31st".

Many of Ron's interests are things typically regarded as "uncool" or "childish", things his peers are usually not interested in.

Social Life and Anxiety

Ron is frequently shown to lack social skills - bad at picking up intonation, doesn't have many friends, has a hard time dating, and is generally believed to be unpopular.

There's also Ron's tendency to panic, and his occasional bouts of paranoia.

(Though his belief that Barkin is targeting him specifically was apparently correct.)

In fact, Ron's anxiety reached a breaking point when, in "Odds Man In", he experienced such bad anxiety, he locked himself in some kind of panic room.

(Also, where was this? When did he have it built?)

Ron is also concerned about being replaced as Kim's best friend or sidekick, as shown in "Pain King vs Cleopatra", or boyfriend, as shown in "Ill-Suited".

So Ron displays many traits associated with neurodivergent teenagers.

And these also happen to be the traits that the show used to write him as a "loser".

And that's one of the reasons I dislike so much of the show's humor being at Ron's expense - because it often relies on poking fun at Ron not behaving in a neurotypical way.

And as someone who is not neurotypical, seeing the character that's the most like me being the "buffoon" character, the "inept sidekick" character, the one who is incompetent and incapable, well...it kind of hurts.

Because it kind of feels like they're saying what I and many other neurodivergent people have heard our whole lives - that you can't do anything, and you look foolish for trying.

Look, I realize this wasn't intentional. But, even unintentionally, Ron is very heavily neurodivergent-coded, and that happens too often in media - humor that relies on someone having neurodivergent traits and making fun of them for it.

And we've all grown past that.

Alright, addressing several points:

First, the examples @kim-and-ron gave of Ron keeping things to himself are all things that happened after the first episode. They're fairly recent problems, so I don't blame Ron for trying to solve those by himself.

And he didn't keep his self image issues a secret in "Ron the Man", nor did he keep his fears about their future a secret either in "Graduation". So those don't count as examples to your point.

Now, to my point: those were recent problems, but in the past Ron has told Kim about every other problem he's had; Wannaweep, gnomes, robotic horses, etc. Before the first episode, he had never kept his issues a secret from Kim.

@gothicthundra I do agree that it's totally reasonable to still be learning things about each other, and I will concede my point about Shaun as his reign of terror probably began fairly recently.

But if you can agree that the frequency of game nights meant Ron should have known about them, then surely you can agree that the bullying, which was more frequent, is something Kim should have known about?

And, these aren't just people who are mean to Ron, these are people who were attacking him, threatening him, and stealing his money. Since kindergarten.

Are we supposed to believe that at five years old, Ron decided to handle people beating him up and stealing his money on his own?

Are we really going to believe that, in the entire time it's going on, he never had an injury from them, or Kim never wondered were Ron's money has gone?

Or are we supposed to believe that Ron lied about those things, when he's canonically a terrible liar and had no reason to lie in the first place?

He's been getting robbed and attacked since kindergarten, and we're really supposed to believe it never came up before?

As for how I'd fix that scene in "Monkey Fist Strikes", here:

Ron: "I know you and Larry don't have a lot in common, but is game night with him and your Aunt June really so bad?"

Kim: "It's not the game, it's that I'm forced to listen to him talk about his conventions or his "LARPs", and that I've been forced once a month since I was three years old. Last month I learned more than I ever wanted to about that Fortress game."

And there, we have an exposition that explains things to the audience without Ron being ignorant of something that should've come up by now.

And, even though no one's asking, I have a proposal for fixing the issue of Kim not knowing Ron was getting bullied in "Mind Games".

Firstly, we'd have to have the bullying start recently, like Middle School.

Secondly:

Kim: "When you told me you were getting bullied, I thought you were just getting made fun of. I didn't realize it was this bad, and my advice definitely wouldn't have helped. I'm sorry I didn't help earlier."

Ron: "Yeah, I didn't know how to say it, and I figured just avoiding them would work fine. But, thanks."

Kim: "That's what friends are for. You can always come to me if you need help. And I'll try to listen better in the future."

Ron: "Thanks, KP. And hey, it's the same for me, you know?"

Kim: "I know, you'll always be there for me."

Rufus: *chirps*

Ron: "And Rufus!"

Kim: "And Rufus."

And, one final point:

I can kind of see the point about Ron keeping some of his problems to himself, but it seems strange that he never told Kim about his interest in baking. That's not a problem that needs solving, it's a new interest that he was eager to try and share, so why wouldn't he share it with Kim?

Honestly, I am grateful to everyone who's commented on this. I do enjoy hearing everyone's points, even if I don't agree with them.

Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.

And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.

"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.

"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.

"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.

"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.

"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.

"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.

I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?

Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?