Ml Writing Salt - Blog Posts

In Defense of Marinette

I like Marinette. While there are many valid criticisms of her writing, the same can be said for literally every other character and she's actually doing pretty well given that she's the main character. After all, in a show where consistent characterization is an ongoing issue, the one with the most screen time will probably be the one who's the biggest victim of the issue.

This is heavily exacerbated by the rule that supposedly governs Miraculous. Namely that, in each story, Marinette must make a mistake. Or, at least, so says the head writer:

I really do not care what this guy says on Twitter or anywhere else. I only care about what's in the show because, if you have to go outside the text to understand the text, then you have no idea how to tell a good story.

However, unlike many of the tweets that I've seen, this one isn't some BS bit of lore. It's a writing rule and it has substantial backing in the text. It's extremely rare to have an episode where Marinette comes out smelling like roses and that's a problem because Miraculous has over 100 episodes. In other words, to follow this rule, the writers have to come up with over 100 ways for Marinette to be wrong so of course she's going to come across poorly. Why would you do this to your main character?

It's extremely common for kids shows to have a "lesson of the day" element to them. Someone always needs to learn something, but I've never seen a show misunderstand the assignment so badly. Learning a lesson is not the same as doing something wrong.

It's been a while since I watched the 2010 version of My Little Pony, but it really leaned into that whole "lesson of the day" thing and it actually knew what it was doing, so I'm going to talk about it briefly to discuss things that Miraculous should have done.

The first thing to note is that MLP had an unambiguous main character - Twilight Sparkle - but Twilight was not the one who learned all of the lessons. She had a pet dragon and a crew of five friends who would, occasionally, be the ones to learn the lesson because there were lots of lessons that simply didn't fit Twilight's character. Instead of warping Twilight to make the idea work (cough cough Ikari Gozen cough), the writers just let someone else have the spotlight for a bit.

This is an excellent way to build out your cast and Miraculous had plenty of opportunities to do it. For example, Lila should not have been Marinette's issue. The fact that Lila hates Marinette could have certainly stuck around, but the one who takes her down and learns to investigate her sources? That should have been Alya. A liar is the perfect enemy for an investigative journalist, but a poor enemy for someone who shines as a battlefield commander and overthinks when she's given too much time.

Another way that MLP would teach lessons was to have someone other than Twilight or the main crew cause the issue that they then had to deal with. This leads to one of the best moments in children's television:

And, frankly? Marinette deserves a moment like this. That poor girl has been through hell and is never allowed to make the right call when it really matters. The show will even completely rewrite its lore to make her fail (see: Strike Back). That is such an awful thing to do to your lead! Shows about female empowerment should include women feeling powerful and, no, Lila and Chloe don't count!

Also, the show is literally about Gabriel taking advantage of people who are upset. You don't need to have Marinette make a mistake to shoehorn in a life lesson. Akumas are life lesson fodder and season 1 actually seemed to get this. I'm not sure why they switched gears to "Marinette is the star and, therefore, must always be wrong."

The final way that MLP taught lessons was to have Twilight do something wrong because having your main character do something wrong is a totally valid way to teach lessons. It just shouldn't be your only way because you know who is always wrong in children's media?

Villains.

They wrote Marinette like a villain.

And a large part of the fandom hates her for it because of course they do.

You're not supposed to like villains.

And it could've set up some interesting plots, too.

Nobody wants Chat Noir to start working with Hawk Moth, but literally not having a choice leads to opening the door for a lot of questions about what it means to be human, be a person, and how far he'd be willing to go to secure his freedom. Probably not too far, but it'd still be a great plot.

Morality crisis after learning that Felix, Kagami, and Adrien are Sentimonsters and Ladybug and Chat Noir have destroyed a bunch of them? That'd be good too!

There was so much potential that they decided not to do anything with.

Sentimonsters Vs Tropes

It's no secret that I hate the fact that Adrien is a sentimonster, but I figured I'd take a minute to clearly explain why it bothers me so much because I don't think that I've done that and I should. There's obviously the issue that he will never have true free will and that's deeply upsetting, but my dislike of this theory came long before canon made that issue clear, further fueling my hatred. My baseline dislike is routed in the heart of the theory and the tropes it's brushing up against.

There are two standard tropes that you usually see with something like the sentiplot. The first trope is the humanization of the outsider and the second is the questioning of what it means to be a valid living creature. Let's quickly define both of these.

Humanization of the Outsider

This trope takes some external group and presents them as bad. They are the irredeemable enemy who must be stopped at all costs, the lesser race who are fit to be nothing more than slaves, or some other inherent disparity that's just a base part of this world. Whatever the setup, the story then introduces a member of this external group as a key character in the story and somehow creates a connection between that character and the "good" guys. Through that connection, we come to learn that this individual is, in fact, not inherently lesser or bad or what-have-you. They are just as valid as the "good" guys. From there, we are forced to reassess our assumptions about every member of the external group. If this one individual isn't what we thought, then are any of them? For a well-known example of this, think Toothless from How to Train Your Dragon.

The point of this trope is to make people question the way they view others. To suggest that maybe you're viewing a situation through biased eyes. Is any group inherently bad/lesser or do you just not know the whole story? What have you been taught and why?

What Makes You Worthy of Life?

This trope is basically the inversion of the humanization trope. Instead of focusing on how we view others, it focuses on how we view ourselves. It says that you're valid no matter where you come from or who your parents are. That you are not defined by others or arbitrary catagories. For a well-known example of this, think of that Mewtwo line that people love to quote:

“I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.” ― Pokemon, The First Movie: Mewtwo Strikes Back!

Combo Attack & Variations

Before we circle back to Miraculous, it's worth noting that these two tropes are often used in tandem. A non-human or outsider may question if they're valid and, though that struggle, teach others in-universe to question their prejudice. You can also have variations such as the non-human or outsider viewing themselves as totally valid without being part of a larger group, leading to the type of discussion that you'd expect in the humanization trope even thought, setup wise, it's more in line with the validity trope. Star Trek: The Next Generation has several episodes about this one, mostly focused around the character Data. Heck, Stark Trek hits every one of these tropes at one point or another because they're incredibly standard Sci-Fi tropes. A large amount of Sci-Fi is all about philosophical questions! This brings us back to Miraculous.

Dunking on Miraculous

When you use a standard setup like the introduction of a non-human who is supposed to be seen as human, you are joining a vast canon of literature that discusses this topic, adding your voice to thousands of others, making your statement on humanity and personal worth. Or, at least, that's what I expect to see when you introduce this type of setup. The problem with Miraculous is that it doesn't add to those conversations. There is no discussion of Adrien's worth or the worth of any other sentimonster. If anything, Miraculous has so far spat in the face of these tropes. To show you what I mean, let's look at what canon has given us from two directions.

Direction One: What makes a sentimonster valid?

Their creator. Adrien was made to live like a human and so we must treat him as one. If a sentimonster wasn't made to be equal to humans? Then no worries, go ahead and destroy them! They don't matter because their creator - aka their parent - decided that they're worthless. The circumstances of their birth define their fundamental right to exist.

Direction Two: What did finding out about their sentistatus do to Felix and Kagami's perception of their own self worth? Does finding out a sentikids' sentiness status change how others see them?

Canon seems to have no interest in even acknowledging that someone might ask these questions. Felix has known what he is for years, but doesn't seem to have any hangups about it. He wants to ensure his freedom, but that's not unique to sentimonsters or saying something about his self worth. Once he has his ring and the peacock, his lack of true free will and the whole remote-self-destruct issue don't seem to bother him. You could replace his status with any sort of magical control and get the same plot because the plot is about acquiring macguffins and nothing else.

Even Colt's abuse is only used to make Felix a sad little uwu who can't be held accountable for anything and not as a setup to Felix questioning his worth. We see Felix called "monster," but Felix has not been shown to have taken that insult to heart. He doesn't view himself as a monster. We don't even learn about the monster insult until Felix is "good." The most I can say is that there is a vague sense that Felix probably views humans as lesser, but it's hard to be sure about that based on the actual text of the show even if the word of god is that Ladybug made Felix trust humans. So that's a bust on Felix addressing this issue even though he's the best character to do it. What about everyone else?

Kagami seems to learn the truth in the middle of season five and she's totally fine. Not really human? Not a problem! Her love life is far more worthy of attention. Make her a human who feels in love with a sentimonster and, once again, nothing changes.

Marinette is implied to learn the truth during Felix's play and has no reaction. The fact that she's Miraculous Ladybugged away sentimonsters and even tossed a few in the sun doesn't appear to even cross her mind. The only impact this has on her is that she now has more secrets to keep from Adrien. Her view of him, Kagami, and Felix has not changed.

We don't even get Nathalie or Gabriel reacting to the idea of destroying sentimonster! For fifteen years, the only sentimonsters they've dealt with are Adrien, Kagami, and Felix. They appear to see these three as real human children and yet they have no problem switching to using other sentimonsters as canon fodder. If anyone should have reacted strongly to the death of sentibug, it's Gabriel because Nathalie is wielding the power to poof away his son and she just showed a total lack of regard for what is supposedly a fourth valid sentimonster, but we get nothing.

Given all these tepid non-reactions, I guess that the audience is not supposed to care about the fact that Adrien was the only character with no hopes or dreams in Wishmaker. That meant nothing about his worth or psychology! It was just a bit of fun foreshadowing! He's a real boy because his mommy and the writers said so. No greater discussion is needed.

What's the show's actual message then?

Now, do I think that Miraculous was trying to give us baby's first eugenics lesson? No. Absolutely not! This is, at best, incredibly clumsy writing that is trying and failing to tell a moral that I truly can't figure out. At worst, the sentiplot shows us that the writers have a fundamental lack of curiosity. A complete disinterest in using their massive platform to say something of value. They are here to shock audiences with poorly setup twists and nothing else. Whichever path you pick, it's not a good look.

I truly love these tropes and grew up consuming media that played with them. They have positively shaped how I view the world. That's why I find Miraculous' handling of this topic so incredibly depressing and upsetting. The problem is not that Adrien is a sentimonster. It's that he was made into one - robbed of his freedom and humanity - for nothing more than shock value. It's that other, "lesser" sentimonsters are being treated as disposable by one of their own kind. It's that there is no greater lesson here or, if there is, then it's going to be told in a way that completely fails to connect with the audience due to the show's terrible pacing and inability to use the type of focus you need to tell a coherent arc.

These are the writers who had Adrien give the high road advice at the beginning of season three and then didn't revisit that issue until the end of season five without so much as a flashback to remind viewers what the heck he was talking about. Rare is the viewer who can follow that plot and I don't expect the sentiplot to be any better assuming that there even is going to be a plot. If there is, then I already hate it! I don't want Miraculous discussing hard topics with superfans and no one else. I want it having those discussions in a way that the intended audience can follow. If it can't do that, then it never should have tread on such morally complex ground.

Yeah, the show fumbled this, big time.

It's like the exact opposite of all my Ron Stoppable posts.

In those, I point out how Ron is shown to be extremely competent and important to the success of the team, but even the narrative refuses to recognize it.

In Miraculous, Chat Noir is important, narratively, but is rarely, if ever, given a role that can't be fulfilled by anyone else.

Anyone else can distract the villain. Arguably, other miraculouses would be better for the job. Like pig, rooster, mouse, or monkey.

Anyone else can throw themselves in front of a villain to protect ladybug. Arguably, the turtle and ox miraculouses would be better for that.

And let's not forget that Adrien is shown to goof off as Chat Noir a lot. Desperada happened because he decided to tell Ladybug his identity instead of focusing on fighting the villain.

I can understand that Chat Noir is freedom for Adrien, but it's also a responsibility that he's not taking seriously.

Luckily, there's a Miraculous Cure, that Chat Noir isn't needed for, to fix things, including bringing Chat Noir back from the dead at least once.

On the one hand, it does seem unfair to expect teenagers to behave perfectly in every situation.

On the other hand, Marinette/Ladybug is shouldering most of the responsibility herself because Chat Noir/Adrien refuses to take the job seriously.

And it's extremely unfair to her.

And that's not even getting into how the romance was handled.

Ladybug: Chat Noir is most important member of The Miraculous Team.

Chat Noir's "important role":

"Distraction Grot: Once per battle, in your opponent’s Shooting phase, before making a saving throw for a model in this unit, it can deploy the distraction grot. If it does, until the end of the phase, models in this unit have a 5+ invulnerable save.Designer’s Note: Place a Distraction Grot token next to the unit, removing it when this unit uses this ability."

Does Ladybug ever say that Chat Noir was the most important member of the team? I honestly don't remember that. Either way, I fully agree that the show failed to make him feel like a pivotal member of the team. That's extra true after the season five final. It's really hard to get excited about Chat Noir when he didn't even try to get to his Lady's side in the final fight. Super weird choice for both a romantic lead and one of your main heroes. What is his arc even supposed to be if he's never going to have a meaningful confrontation with his father? And what's the point of his place as Ladybugs main partner if he's allowed to sit out the show's most important fight? He really is just one of the team now.

I have a post somewhere that I don't feel like digging up, but my stance is that - at the very least - they should have let Adrien fight his way to Paris where he could hand off the ring to Luka since Luka knows both identities, but heaven forbid that plot point lead to anything interesting or that Adrien be allowed to do anything more than motivational speeches. I think season five was the first season to not have the famous "you and me against the world" line, which is really funny when you remember that Ladybug was literally up against the world.

It's so frustrating because we have characters like Marc and Nathaniel and Rose with powers that fit their personalities and interests and they don't get to use them very much.

Instead, we get a season where the villains get to use the powers, and they get to be much more creative with them.

It's frustrating. The villains were using the powers better than their chosen holders.

Nathaniel used Genesis to make a wand, but Nathalie used it to make a box of supplies.

Marc used Sublimation to give himself the power to always score a goal, but Tomoe used it to give herself an enhanced sense of smell, and Gabriel used it to give himself invisibility and flight.

Rose used it to make Juleka and Gigantitan calm down, but Mr. Damocles used it to distract multiple people and Miss Bustier used it to start a revolution.

The villains were using the powers more creatively than the heroes were.

(Note, it's not just a problem with these three, but they were the ones that best explained the problem.)

This makes it seem like the chosen holders aren't cut out to be heroes, despite what Ladybug says.

If Marinette and the villains are using the powers better than them, what's the point of them?

They could have been more, but the creators didn't want to work for that.

They want us to believe that these people are perfect for their Miraculouses because they said so, even when the show itself contradicts it.

And, honestly, that's terrible writing and unfair to the characters.

Ladybug Vs Avatar's use of the supporting cast and the problem thereof.

I'm not sure if this has been covered before, but there's a serious problem with Marinette being the be-all end-all of everything in Miaculous.

And it's not just because "she's stressed" or "it's all on her". Her being the most important, talented and plot-relevant character in every situation is.

Let's make a comparison to the Gold Standard:

In Avatar the Last Airbender, Aang is the axis of the story. He holds incredible powers beyond anyone else, can bend every element and could conceivably end the entire conflict that plagues his world with relative ease- which he eventually does.

However, for 99% of the story he cannot do so. Because Aang is untrained, he cannot access that divine win-button of the Avatar State at will, and using it carried enormous risks to himself and those around him- making it functionally unusable for common conflicts. Furthermore while he does technically have the capacity to use all four elements, he had only mastered one and needed to learn the remaining three.

Indeed, Aang has outright difficulty with learning Earthbending despite his innate talents and while he's a quick study for the other two, he doesn't demonstrate the same effectiveness with water and fire as Katara and Zuko.

This means that Aang cannot do certain things as well as the others in his team. This means that for the majority of the story, even though his first and preferred element provides him with useful abilities" Aang has weaknesses that he needs others to cover and provide for.

Enter Katara, Sokka, Toph and Zuko.

Katara is a waterbender who teaches Aang and later advances her powers to include the all-important power of healing and the disturbingly effective (though situational) Bloodbending.

Toph is an earthbender who is also one of Aang's teachers, and whose tremor sense later allows her to both detect liars and invent Metalbending.

Sokka is seemingly just the comic relief normie. However his technical mindset allows him to serve as the general of the group, and even plan and lead in that role for entire armies later in the show.

Even Zuko who joins later and becomes less a teacher but a fellow student alongside Aaang in firebending is a skilled infiltrator and melee weapon expert. (This is less of a case than the others since it's not used as much, but it's more of a concrete example than his insights into the fire nation and his potential utility as a replacement Fire Lord).

They each provide far more than those short summaries, but it's important to note that in each case, even when Aang does learn the elements and starts growing into his role as the Avatar: he never gains the full range of abilities that his team offers. He never assumes the fully strategic mindset of Sokka, and even though it's downright implausible that no Avatar before him never learnt healing, he never demonstrates that ability or any Metalbending prowess even in the Avatar state.

There's also the enemy trio of Azula, Ty Lee and Mai. Azula is a powerful firebending genius, but Mai's prowess with her throwing weapons are a close match- and Ty Lee's chi-blocking can outright cripple enemy benders for any given fight when combined with her insane agility: something that not even Azula can do with her firebending. They are an incredibly dangerous combination and when Azula loses them, she becomes far less effective for their absence.

In both teams despite the leader being a powerful, talented bender who is objectively the strongst person on their respective side: there's no doubt about each member of the team contributing something that said leader cannot.

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Now let's look at Miraculous:

Marinette is the "Greatest Ladybug" of all time despite being fourteen, only having had the earrings for less than a year, and having a list of predecessors that go back literally thousands of years and include Joan of Arc.

She is also the Guardian of the Miracle Box. Specifically she is the Guardian of The Mother Box that is the most important of all the boxes, despite there being at least a full Temple's worth of actually trained candidates somewhere in Tibet who should be far and above more capable than her or her mentor Fu. However, her supposed superior Su-Han seems entirely convinced that she's already surpassed any teachings his order has by how often she breaks said teachings in his face only for him to roll over like a dog. There's not been a single time when Marinette has been confronted by some shortcoming in her responsibilities as a Guardian where she has had to learn anything from the multi-millennia old Order of Gurdians.

Marinette has also worn almost every single Miraculous in her Box at the same time, a feat that supposedly risked serious harm to her but merely made her woozy for an afternoon (if that). As of the season five Finale, she has also unified her earrings with her partner's ring: a scenario that in earlier seasons seemed to imply great risk: yet she was able to use the powers flawlessly.

As Ladybug, she is also the lone hero who has unlocked any new advanced powers with her Miraculous (unless you also include the arbitrary "adulthood" that she and Chat Noir achieved that allows them multiple uses of their Miraculous before detransforming), and on the occasions when she's used anyone else's powers has shown no sign of being any less capable than they are with them.

Ladybug does everything as well if not better than everyone else.

Marinette can not only unify with any Miraculous she needs for a given mission, she can use the powers as effectively as their "dedicated holder" can and without any restrictions. Unlike the majority of the cast who are still under the child-power limit. She can even unify with multiple miraculous at the same time without any drawbacks.

And without those drawbacks, without anyone on the cast being able to use the power of their Miraculous more effectively than Marinette: everyone else on the team is more or less superfluous.

Sure, Marinette has tossed out the Miraculous to her team like candy now. But when you get down to it: the real lesson that she should have learnt from Strikeback to just put some damn security on her Yo-yo/The Box. Because this just means that she has to wait for the hero in question to show up when she could have just pulled off whatever plan she has in mind herself.

And that superfluous label includes Chat Noir.

As frustrating as it is to come to the this conclusion: as of right now, there's no real reason for Adrien Agreste to be anything but a temporary holder. Certainly you can point to his experience with Plagg's power, and a few examples that seem to imply he can do more with it (in his second outing he was able to reconstruct part of the Eiffel Tower into a makeshift extension to catch someone from). Things that imply that if he perhaps received any actual training in the show like Marinette did from Fu, any guidance whatsoever from the Order or their Grimoire he might be able to achieve more.

But there's no solid evidence to expect that Marinette wouldn't be as effective, and the narrative precedent does not lend itself to the idea that anyone could overshadow Ladybug as a holder even of their own Miraculous. If anything, the sheer ability Marinette showed as Bug Noire implies that her having a partner instead of just keeping the ring herself is a detriment to any given situation.

If you can justify exposing the ring to potential capture in the first place considering that there seems to be no requirement to do. By all rights the practical thing to do is just keeping Plagg in the box instead of risking reality.

Of course we wanted to be generous, Adrien could still be of some use. He's the resident meatshield and narrative jobber. So long as he has a Miraculous he could continue faithfully serving in those roles, eating up mind-control beams and taking hits for Bug Noire so she can save the day as usual.

But everyone else on the Miraculous team might as well turn in their furry super-suits and go home.

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You couldn't get a more black white depiction of the value of others outside of the protagonist. in Avatar, Aang is literally a semi-divine being who still needs to be humble and learn while the others around him still have useful special talents and prowess that he can't simply attain at will.

While in Miraculous, there's only one person of actual true competence. From Paris to Shanghai, Marinette alone is the capable one- barring the odd episode in the limelight (Alya and Felix stand up and take a bow. Adrien can stay seated).

There is a word for a character that is impossibly more capable than any other in spite of all reason and logic. And Marinette is increasingly fitting that mold as the show goes on. There's also a term for characters that ultimately contribute nothing good or bad to a story; wasted space. You can't have an entire ensemble of characters as part of the cast and have them provide nothing if they're supposed to have even a smidge of narrative value without making them something the story would be better off without.

Just as you can't just have one person at the centre of everything, make them capable of everything and not eventually have the story they're in turn into (at best) a power fantasy.

And it's a shame. Because Miraculous seemed like it could have been a lot more.