What if they had matching outfits? đł
Why do people talk about how harrowing Watership Down was but never mention Cowslip's warren... There are a group of anthropomorphic rabbits in this children's fantasy novel that have accepted their role as living meat. They've convinced themselves that to kick and struggle is to defy the will of a god confined to the tortured ramblings of their poet caste, who beg for their throats to snap under shining wire as their kin look on in polite fascination. They speak with lobotomised tongues and shun their culture for that of their devourers, pushing stones into walls, digging agoraphobic atriums under which to sit in silence, awaiting a fate they are forbidden to name. Why don't we talk about this
Will you accept a mad dany arc if grrm does it in a different, more sensical way or would that always narratively suck for you?
it has nothing do with my personal feelings regarding the character. i dislike speculation of dany having a downfall arc because it reveals a misreading of the text and the narrative role she plays within it. i don't believe it can be done in a satisfying way because she was always intended to be a heroic character. the 'mad dany' reading relies on certain initial assumptions about her character that are being problematised within the storyâwhich is difficult to discuss because grrm's intent regarding dany is at odds with the orientalist framework he employs in the construction of essos, but i'll try to be comprehensive about it. so dany is an exile, homeless and perpetually seeking a home. she was told by viserys that westeros is "our land" but she's not culturally westerosi the same way the rest of our cast is because she's also never known westeros. all she has are second hand, romanticised accounts from viserys (These places he talked of [...] they were just words to her). dany has lived her entire life in essos and absorbed their cultural norms and slavery is normalised in most of essos (There was no slavery in the free city of Pentos. Nonetheless, they were slaves), it's especially apparent in her first chapter which pointedly draws attention to the various slaves serving at illyrio's manse, something dany doesn't express any moral objection to, because nobody has taught her this is wrong. and that understanding only comes after viserys sells her to drogo and she personally experiences a similar loss of autonomy.
Do you know what it is like to be sold, squire? I do. My brother sold me to Khal Drogo for the promise of a golden crown. Well, Drogo crowned him in gold, though not as he had wished, and I . . . my sun-and-stars made a queen of me, but if he had been a different man, it might have been much otherwise. Do you think I have forgotten how it felt to be afraid? DAENERYS II, A Storm of Swords
and when mirri reveals to dany that her act of 'saving' her was no saving at all. rescuing her through the offer of a place in drogo's khalasar is a meaningless gesture since it does nothing to address the systems that have enabled mirri's enslavement in the first place. yeah, she's fourteen and possesses no power in her own right and is not complicit in drogo's crimes but mirri's presence in the story is meant to teach her that lesson. dany does not arrive already possessed with a political consciousness that opposes slavery, she learns and reorients her worldview just as jon did once he became familiar with the free folk. this is an important detail because without it her crusade in slaver's bay is no longer a story about a former enslaved and sexually abused girl being provided the means to begin a revolutionary counter-struggle against a culture of dehumanisation, but about a civilising mission where a culturally westerosi (westeros, where slavery is outlawed. westeros which is clearly imagined as the occident to essos's orient) character with superior ideals travels to foreign lands to educate the barbariansâwhich would've made her a straightforward white saviour figure. this IS undermined by the way her storyline is rife with orientalist tropes and i'm getting to that, but my main point is that dany's character is very deliberately written to be someone who is stateless and doesn't belong anywhere. she is an other. which is compounded by her targaryen heritageâthe targaryens are narratively imagined as white enough to co-exist with the rest of westeros but they're also being othered because they're a family originating from the east with 'depraved' inbreeding and blood magic practices (practices that are reviled throughout the whole continent), which simultaneously makes them too other to ever fully assimilate despite the family being culturally westerosi in all the ways that matter. this especially comes through in the coin quote, every house has had occasional despots for rulers but people only bother to pathologise the targaryens and that's because they're foreigners. "the gods flip a coin" is presenting this dichotomy of targaryens as either mad - violent barbarians from the east, or great, in which case they're exoticised as otherworldly, above the laws of gods and men. and the final thing that serves to other her is her association with the dothraki. the dothraki are initially introduced as violent savages, but that view has been challenged since then as dany adopts dothraki customs and comes to love their people as her own and even sees herself as more of a khaleesi than a queen. and i must emphasise that this is no way done well because a) the dothraki are constructed out of offensive stereotypes about steppe cultures b) five books later grrm hasn't bothered to give any of them interiority because he clearly doesn't care about the dothraki, they're an afterthought in his narrative about dany and c) i think the subversion of their introduction as the inferior racial other basically amounts to "they're noble savages".
so you see all this at work when in-universe those who revile her speak of alleged violent tendencies, that she's coming to burn the continent down, that she hatched her dragons through foul blood magic and that she tricked her khal husband into murdering her brother and has acquired an army of savages, that her court is made up of foreigners and 'honourless' westerosi men (jorah, barristan, and soon tyrion), while others talk of her supposed otherworldly beauty ("The last of her line. They say she is the fairest woman in the world.")âthe mad dany reading of her is taking all this at face value, it's falling for that in-universe narrative her enemies have come up with, which associates her and her allies' foreignness with moral depravity. (this is also what the show did, which i said "achieved her s8 ending by fully leaning into the horror of the savage oriental horde come to oppress the civilised westerosi landowning class" and that hysterical randyll tarly speech "at least cersei wasn't a FOREIGNER"). a very early example of this is in the first book. robert wanted a teenager dead because she was a targaryen: aerys's daughter, rhaegar's sister, because she married a khal and adopted dothraki customs as her own. and it was ned who put up a fight against this. ned is flawed in my ways but do you suppose the narrative will diminish ned's legacy in this, in his stance against dehumanisation. and asoiaf is primarily about that, every major character has had experience with being othered (cripples, bastards, and broken things is about this) and within this narrative dany is meant to be The Other who is working to end institutions of otherisation. her upcoming invasion of westeros is not playing into the the threat of the foreign invader but raising questions of whether westeros is also in need of some reform (at one point tyrion directly compares a serf to a slave, something that might be narratively painting westeros as not culturally superior at all for having outlawed slavery). the problem, of course, being that the way grrm subverts the image of essos as the inferior racial other is by first populating it with orientalist stereotypes. he parallels some of the violence found in ghiscari culture and the dothraki raid of the lhazareen village with ramsay and amory lorch and gregor clegane et al operating in the riverlands in acok but the ghiscari are also portrayed almost as a monolith, as uniformly morally suspect individuals because our only introduction to them is through the slavers. it's the way dany is the only active abolitionist with a narrative voice in essos (there's the shavepate. but he's also a scheming violent extremist so), i said her story is not a civilising mission but when you fail to give any of the ghiscari oppressed a voice it doesn't result in great optics. and it is undeniable that the story is About Westeros, dany's great narrative destiny lies over there, when the long night arrivesâan apocalyptic threat meant to affect the entire worldâthe battle for the dawn will also take place over there, i doubt the essosi will play a role in that.
What if you wanted to be KING but your niece and nephews were BASTARDS and your brother was GAY and STUPID and everyone HATED you and you couldnât find a DENTIST for your teeth you ground down and a PRIESTESS told you to kill your DAUGHTER and a CLOWN was there
imo kai (who i think was probably bi and was definitely dating jennifer) wanted to be with mickey because she had just witnessed her partner die gruesomely and was struggling with the concept of mortality for herself & her loved ones, which sheâd never really faced before.
she wanted mickey because he would always be reprinted and she wouldnât have to suffer the pain of losing him forever. she would be âsafeâ from facing that grief and pain again because mickey canât die permanently, as she sees it.
also, heâs a sweet guy.
One of the things that confused me about Mickey 17 was Kai's character cause what
I thought the barebones of her character was interesting, a harsh and steadfast individual, who is compassionate but not actually easy to get close to, and how is unwaveringly loyal to the system but does not care for the leader of it (honestly she's exactly the type of character I like)
And then she tried to jump on Mickey, which was especially confusing cause isn't she a lesbian
Like I genuinely thought that the dinner scene were they continually called her and Jennifer friends was meant to show how little the Marshall's cared or understood the people they ruled because it really seemed like they were trying to say that she and Jennifer were more than friends and Kenneth who hadn't even got Jennifer's name right or Yifa who only cares about image and not at all about people, just didn't care enough to know or even consider that they were more than friends
And sure, she clearly cared about how Mickey was being mistreated but I thought that was because she was a good person
So to go from the dinner scene to her trying to jump Mickey was whiplash
And then the last scene we see her in was one where a different female character was draping themselves all over her
So I'm just confused
And you can argue that Kai is bi, entirely possible, but then why Mickey, because if she is bi and was dating Jennifer than why did she try and jump Mickey after the dinner party where she is clearly still upset about her girlfriend's death, and once again why Mickey, what about Mickey is attractive to her
But then if she's not bi and she and Jennifer are just friends, what's with the lesbian subtext, why include it, at all
I'm just confused
What was the point of it all
âit is the parents responsibility to keep their children away from media that contains any vulgar/mature content and we shouldnt blame the media creators for itâ and âhazbin hotel has writing that specifically appeals to fandom teenagersâ are two opinions that i feel like can coexist
art parallels Letters to Milena | Franz Kafka On The Seashore | HanuĆĄ Knöchel Lovers | PĂĄl Szinyei Merse Spending More Time, The Warmth of The Sun | Ron Hicks Homecoming | Hans Adolf BĂŒhler Returning Home | Alex Venezia Vampire | Edvard Munch
and i enjoyed it for the most part. itâs a fun little show and i think thatâs how people ought to treat it. iâve a few thoughts below the cut. iâve read a lot of glazing and a lot of hate and tbh i think iâm somewhere in the middle which seems like a rare thing in this fandom lmao
my favorite characters were fizz and moxxie & millie (tho the camp episode was so boring oh my goddd) and also ozzie however his design drives me up a wall why does he look like that. however his VA is sooo good
why do they say fuck so much
it feels like a show made for edgy high schoolers idk like itâs fun but itâs 90% sex jokes, âwittyâ one-liners, and ship content
they interact with issues shallowlyâlike classism in hell and possibly racism (? if imps are a separate race ? idk)âand tbh i think they should stick to shallow examinations. social commentary is not their strong suit. things wonât hold together if they try to go deeper with this; itâs not a serious show and it should not be taking itself seriously. it works best when itâs interpersonal
i have a big issue w how viv/the writers/character designers portray fat ppl. i rly didnât get the fat jokes about moxxie in that one ep like was it supposed to be a running gag? the character designs make everyone thin as a toothpick except for mammon who also happens to be the one sin they portray as being the worst and most disgusting. even bee who literally *is* gluttony is disgusted by mammon in that one scene where heâs chowing down in the courtroom. like what sense does that make.
which gets me to my real question that consistently bugged me throughout the whole series: what is the standard of morals in hell? the sins are personifications of their domains, so why are most of them decent folks? does this imply that people are sent to hell based on very conservative christian viewsâlike is that the moral standard in this universe (i havenât seen hh if this is explained)? like there genuinely werenât a lot of indications for me for why a sin was a sin. ozzie emphasized lust being consensual; bee was concerned for blitz overindulging; but then verosika and her friends sexually assault moxxie and itâs implicitly brushed off as funny and not a big deal because oh well it is hell after all. idk it just felt inconsistent to me and iâm not sure why everyone and everything was so sanitized if this is supposed to be a terrible place
i liked the backstory episodes those were fun
i feel like they babygirlified stolas by making stella so unlikeable. it feels like the show runners were begging for us to sympathize with him when i thought he was a plenty decent character on his own and they could have made him much more morally complex by letting stella be an actual character. i was hoping there would be a little more ambiguity to it (rather than âyay stolas is finally divorcing that bitchâ) because i genuinely was a little confused by why octavia was so mad at him at the end of s2 when the show covers his basesâshe saw that stella wasnât letting him call? idk i feel like the conflict shouldâve come around the stars episode not the end one it just didnât make sense to me. her struggle with the divorce made sense in s1 but by s2 theyâd made stella such the clear-cut villain that it seemed like she never had a happy family to mourn the loss of. it felt forced that they transferred the conflict she seemed to be set up for having with her mother to stolas just to give him something to be upset about.
iâm not a big fan of stolitz im gonna be honest. idk why they like each other. they went from stolas essentially being a funny thirsty character to making their relationship the main plot line. it felt forced on blitzâs end especially like he went from not caring about him to âno actually heâs just too insecure to admit his feelingsâ to madly in love?? within the space of a few episodes? there was also the problematic classist overtones as well but i think giving them an overtly toxic situationship wouldâve been better and more fitting to the fact that theyâre in hell than airbrushing things away so they can be an uwu yaoi pairing.
i enjoyed some of the songs especiallyyy the asmodeus one is s1 that was groovy as hell
i love fizz and ozzie theyâre really cute :)
some of the designs got on my nerves (like ozzie and striker etc) but some of them were pretty cool (like fizz and stolas!)
in closing, i think the show is fine and a pretty fun watch it just shouldnât take itself too seriously because then it breaks down.