Nightreign Looks Really Cool But I’m Definitely Not Looking Forward To People Using It In Lore Discussion

My personal undertale headcanon is that Flowey isn’t emotionless and incapable of connecting with others because he lacks a soul or is inherently “bad”, it’s because he was deeply traumatized from watching his best friend/sibling kill themselves in an incredibly painful way only to die violently himself hours later at like, the age of 11?

That would break anybody. To make things even worse, he woke up an undisclosed amount of time later in a body wholly alien to him, unable to move, completely alone until Asgore found him. If that wasn’t bad enough he then had to directly face the consequences of his and Chara’s plan, and the deep pain that it caused everyone in the underground. His father, the king? Broken. His mother? Missing. His people? Devastated and hopeless. Chara? Gone.

And to make things just that much worse, when the pain and grief of everything gets too much for him, and he deems himself broken beyond repair and decides to take his life he finds out that he has complete control over time itself.

He then spends an unimaginable amount of time experimenting with this power, constantly trying to do the right thing, constantly trying to help people and make the world better. But he’s never satisfied. He’s never happy. He does this, again and again and again. He grows older and older but never actually ages, he sinks deeper and deeper into his own tiny world, becoming even more distant and disconnected from the people around him as situations repeat themselves and peoples lives loop and loop without end. 

Eventually he becomes so unbearingly bored of the endless, unescapable cycle that he starts to experiment with more negative situations. Afterall, his actions no longer have consequences, right? Anything he does, he can and will undo eventually. Even the most horrific actions hold no weight in Flowey’s impermanent world. The only person who ever has to deal with the consequences of Flowey’s actions… Is Flowey himself.

So he does it. Slipping deeper and deeper into his delusions. Falling deeper and deeper into genuine insanity as the years repeat themselves onto eternity and Flowey disconnects completely from the world around him.

At this point, he feels that he’s experienced quite literally everything the world has to offer. He probably lived as Flowey far longer than he ever did as Asriel by now. He’s befriended everyone, he’s hurt everyone. He’s saved everyone, he’s killed everyone. He’s done everything. Even violence doesn’t interest him anymore. So what does he do? He stops.

I’ve always wondered how Frisk even had the chance to fall into Mt. Ebott and usurp Flowey of his powers if he was constantly resetting the timeline, but I think I finally get it.

Flowey probably just… Stopped completely at some point. He stopped resetting, stopped interacting with the world and sat himself at his best friend's grave and just… waited. Waited for something, anything new to happen. Eventually enough time passed for a new human to fall, a human who inherently overpowers Flowey’s control of the timeline and so, for the first time in what must have felt like eternity Flowey was finally free from his power.

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After everything that Asriel experienced leading up to and during his death, he probably would have needed intense therapy to overcome the trauma. But that’s not what he got was it? He didn’t get therapy. He didn’t get the chance to heal. He got the powers of a god and the curse of his actions no longer having consequences. I don’t believe Flowey is incapable of connecting with others or feeling true happiness or love. I think that’s just a lie he told himself so his situation wouldn’t hurt as much.

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But, even after all of that I believe Flowey still has a chance at happiness. We see his character shift dramatically after the Omega Flowey fight. After he is once again stripped of his power over time, he has an intense moment of vulnerability that shows what I believe to be his true colors, followed by him coaching Frisk on how to get a better ending for everyone.

Sure, this was likely a trap for Flowey to take everyone’s souls, but once again, after his defeat as Asriel and returning to Flowey’s form, he has yet another character shift.

He’s genuinely happy at this ending. He’s happy that everyone escaped the underground, happy that Frisk gets to live their life. He begs the player to just leave everyone to their lives and to move on themselves. He doesn’t want his power back, he doesn’t want the cycle to continue anymore.

For the first time in god knows how long, Flowey is satisfied.

And maybe if the alarm clock dialogue is anything to go by, given time Flowey can finally heal. Flowey can finally find happiness and love again.

This is an idea I've been thinking about for a while now. I find it really suspect that despite the fact Godwyn is presumably the only demigod who has canonically reproduced the "usual way", meaning that he must have had a partner at some point there's absolutely zero details about any sort of consort to Godwyn anywhere in the game. It's as if there's been a conscious effort by the Golden order to cover up any sort of information on that part of his life.

Take that and combine it with Godwyn and Fortissax's very close yet very vague companionship and Godrick's thing with the dragon and I think there's a real case to be made for those two having been together at some point.

Like who else could realistically have been the secret companion to Godwyn which has seemingly been entirely erased from history if not a past enemy of the golden order, Fortissax themselves.

Godrick is 100% Godwyn’s son with Fortissax. And his frail body is due to the dragon blood attempting to change him like it does when you do dragon communion, but his demigod blood prevents a natural evolution. It is also why he can easily graft the young dragon onto him and make full command of it.

“You need to spend dozens of hours reading item descriptions and watching lore videos to understand the story of fromsoft games” factoid actually just statistical error. Lore hunter Georg, who spends upwards of hundreds of hours analysing the story and lore of these games and cross referencing interpretations of the plot is an outlier and should not have been counted.

I actually stopped watching a gaming youtuber a while ago because they were playing a horror game and skipping all the lore notes, saying how it’s the same sort of stuff in every game, all the while complaining about world details that seemed abnormal, which were actually explained in those very notes.

It’s one thing to misinterpret the lore, but it’s another thing all together to go out of your way to ignore it and then complain that the world design makes no sense.

One detail I really like about Shadow of the Erdtree's final boss is that you can tell he's not fully there... (lore analysis under the cut)

...because his horse isn't with him! What you learn in the base game is that Radahn would never willingly separate from his horse. This man mastered a new school of magic fully so he could keep his horse with him at all times. He's the prime horse girl of the lands between. And yet when we meet him he is on his own, no horse in sight.

For the people saying Radahn being the final boss is somehow a cop-out, i vehemently disagree. This part of the lore was always going to be present, and it was clearly planned out since the start. There's a lore reason Malenia and Radahn fought now. Miquella was always going to be an evil little shit. Long before the DLC came out people had already figured out that Miquella as a character is heavily inspired by Griffith from berserk. Griffith, the quintessential betrayer of hopes in modern Japanese fiction. The guy who murdered everyone he ever loved for a shot at godhood. Sorry Miquella simps, but Miquella is right: it was his very fate to betray you.

Speaking of which! I really like the contrast between Miquella and Ranni in that aspect. Someone else already discussed how they mirror each other in terms of love and how they treat those who love them, but fate is another really interesting contrast between the two. Where Ranni in the base game goes to absurd lengths to escape her fated godhood, to the point of killing the most beloved man in the lands between just to get a shot at killing herself too; Miquella goes to even more absurd lengths to achieve his. Ironically, this, too involves getting rid of his body.

And the narrative supports Ranni over Miquella. She's right to escape her fate, she's right to value the love of others as much as she does, she's right in her attempts to stop people from sacrificing themselves on her altar. But she also deserves to not be alone. She deserves to have trustworthy companions at her side. If you choose to stick with her, she ends the game victorious, with a trusted consort of any gender at her side*.

Miquella meanwhile uses those who love him as tools and sacrifices everyone who ever valued him in his bid to follow the path fate laid out for him. He gets rightfully stomped into the ground at the end of the DLC for his troubles. zombie spouse and all.

*=unless you got the frenzied flame ending, you naked maniac!

This quote makes me think a lot of things...

If Miquella has removed all things golden from his very being, then I wonder if St trina and/or Messmer could be what remains of his respective halves.

If he removed everything "golden" (I assume erdtree/Marika/Golden order related) then how much of Miquella would actually remain? Would it be so little that it may as well be a different person entirely? I mean, Miquella is very golden. From his design, his lore, his lineage, his power and the very blood that runs through his veins, it all just screams "Golden." If Godwyn the golden hadn't already been born I'm half convinced Miquella would have been called "The golden".

After removing "everything golden" from himself would he even be "Miquella" anymore? Would he even want to be?

And what of the other half? Would that contain so much discarded contents that it itself could also be a new person? How would they feel or act knowing that they're merely the discarded, unwanted scraps of a larger, fiercely more powerful whole? Would they feel bitter? Wronged? Would they come to terms with it? Would they even care? They themselves were once part of the being that discarded them, so they may very well agree with what was done. Or they could despise the act and long for the day when the two could be reunited.

Malenia was able to (while likely accidentally) remove large portions of herself via her first aeonia bloom, which took the form of Millicent and her sisters, so what would happen if an Empyrean did the same with prior knowledge and full intent in what they were going to do?

I'd wager they'd be able to split themselves cleanly, and possibly become something entirely new in the process.

Messmer, Miquella's strength and flesh and lineage

And St. Trina, Miquella's other half and what remains of his ambitions and goals, but likely no means of carrying them out due to discarding their power.

I’ve touched upon this in the past, but there’s a couple reasons I don’t believe the vow was mutually upheld by the end.

Radahn loved war and the glory of battle, but he was also a deeply sentimental person, as we can see with a lot of his history. He initially learned gravity magic so he could keep Leonard as his mount, and he later used that very same magic to freeze the stars in place to protect Selia. When he cares about something he cares hard and clings onto it as much as he can. And the battle of Aionia destroyed all of that. All that he held so dear that he challenged fate itself to protect it. It infected his horse and decimated Selia and all surrounding locations.

He desperately clung to life, even past the point of being driven insane by the scarlet rot. It’s possible to read this as him just wanting to be put down in a worthy fight, but personally I feel like it goes further. That motherfucker did not want to die.

Presumably none of Radahn’s followers had any idea about the vow with Miquella. On Miq’s side at least Malenia knew, but none of the Redmanes had even the faintest clue. Not even his closest allies knew what the fight was about, which is odd considering how glorious a final honourable battle for Radahn to become the lord of a new age would be. It was just kept incredibly secret for some reason. Even when it comes time for the Radahn festivals, they’re specifically to put Radahn to rest in an honourable duel. Not to uphold any sort of vow he might have had.

Going off of the previous point about their respective followers. The Redmanes and The Cleanrot knights fucking hate eachother, to the point where their spirits continue to battle in the wardead catacombs to this very day. This, to me, doesn’t read as a mutually agreed upon and honourable duel to the death. It comes off as there being extremely bad blood between the two groups. The malice between them is so palpable that they won't stop fighting each other even in death.

Radahn doesn’t really come off as being “present” in his promised consort bossfight. When it comes to every other major demigod in the game, they all have something to say. Every single one of them talks to the player before, during and after their boss fights. Radahn however, says nothing. He barely makes a sound throughout his entire fight. It’s like he’s just going through the motions. Like a spirit ash, or a puppet. He’s even able to make use of some of Mohg’s bloodflame abilities, which he shouldn’t be able to do if it was actually just Radahn.

Y'know, I've been thinking about the vow between Miquella and Radahn a lot recently, and I feel like I've come up with a possible explanation for why Radahn seemingly agreed at first but later backed out of the deal.

If Radahn truly did agree to become Miquella's consort, what are the chances that it was made under the pretense that he'd be the next elden lord in the golden order? Continuing the legacy and age of both his personal hero and father, alongside Miquella as the new god of the age, but things remaining overall the same.

Once Miquella became disillusioned with Marika's age and decided to do his own thing, and create his own age, Radahn probably lost interest in becoming his consort because he wouldn't be the lord of the age he loved anymore, infact he would be a major factor in it ending. Something that he historically does not stand for.

This probably lead to a disagreement between the two that lead to Malenia invading Selia. Miquella feeling betrayed because Radahn was now refusing to uphold his promise, and Radahn feeling betrayed because Miquella turned his back on the golden order he loved and was now trying to bring it to an end.

Just want to point out to all the people saying that Zelda would never have kids that her bloodline quite literally needs to continue. Her family are genuinely the only people with the sealing power needed to fight off Ganon whenever he attacks the world.

It’s definitely a pretty fucked up responsibility, but that’s sort of the theme of the franchise as a whole. Link, Zelda and to a certain extent even Ganondorf are all victims of this constant, never ending cycle that they’re all stuck in.

Until Demise/Ganon is finally stopped Hylia/Zelda’s bloodline needs to continue, and the hero/Link's soul is going to keep getting recycled.

The quiet tragedy of shadow of the erdtree is playing through the DLC, encountering cross after cross along your journey and slowly coming to the haunting realisation that Miquella, the person you’ve been tailing throughout the entirety of the DLC, the creator of the Haligtree and protector of its denizens, the most fearsome and kind demigod of them all… Is long dead.

He’s not at the divine gates seeking godhood. Not really. The person known as Miquella is buried at the base of each and every cross in the land. Survived only by a few select ailing entities. St. Trina, slowly wilting at the bottom of the world, The Scadutree avatar who inherited his greatrune, and Miquella the Kind at the very peak of Enir-Ilim.

He not only abandoned his flesh, but went so far as to fracture his very soul. His doubts, his fear, his love. All abandoned in an attempt to fashion a perfect god. To right the wrongs of his mother and people and finally bring the world peace.

His flesh, his power, his birthright, his fate, his fear, his doubts, his love… after leaving all that behind, how much of what’s left is actually Miquella?

Miquella may have hurt many people in his quest for godhood, but he himself was never spared from that very same pain. He may have stripped Radahn and Mohg of their dignity and sense of self to fashion into the perfect consort, but he was just as willing to do the same to himself to fashion into the perfect god.

(I know this isn't about comparing character morality but I really wanna write my thoughts down on this real quick, sorry) Honestly Ranni’s acts are significantly more justifiable than Godfreys. Ranni only did the bare minimum she needed to separate herself from the greater will and eventually overthrow it. She was desperate, and I can’t blame her because from the way she describes the GW it sounds like it’s hardly more than a controlling parasite. Bottom line is that Ranni wouldn’t have had to resort to doing the things she did if she was allowed even a slither of autonomy over her own flesh, and wasn’t predestined to become the GW’s puppet.

It's also important to note that the shattering and everything that came from it was mostly Marika’s doing. I’m not entirely comfortable with blaming her for every atrocity her children committed but she definitely has to shoulder a significant amount of the blame for the whole “ordering her insanely powerful family to fight over the titles they desire all the while giving them a massive power boost via the shards” thing.

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Godfrey on the other hand is absolutely batshit. I love him but the dude really needed to chill the fuck out. Even before he became Marika’s lord he was presumably a bloodthirsty warrior who would fight and kill anyone and anything he could. And after becoming Marika’s lord he played a pivotal role in the destruction of pretty much any society who fell outside of the GW’s very strict circle. And after leaving Marika with the tarnished they presumably went back to fighting anything and anyone they could find. He was the aggressor in every single conflict he ever fought that we know of. I'd argue that purely from a moral standpoint he's probably worse Radagon, who atleast attempted to find peaceful solutions to the wars he was waging. Which is odd because Radagon seems to be the more disliked out of the two.

“it’s fine and actually heroic to violently conquer nations and kill thousands just because their existence threatens your empire as long as it makes your empire prosperous and benevolent and benefitting everyone’s well-being! wait what do you mean the empire is slaughtering albinaurics and omen and making misbegotten into slaves”