Riddler Is Such An OCDiva.

If I stare really hard into the void, maybe the secret of how to life will be revealed.

Bat-family ages in Batman: Wayne Family Adventures

In Batman: Wayne Family adventures, Damian’s age is given as 9 (Ep. 13) and Jason's is given as 19 (Ep. 53).

Bruce’s age is not given, and neither are Steph’s, Tim’s, Cass’s, Alfred’s, Barbara’s, Duke’s, Harper’s, Jim’s, Kate’s, Luke’s, or Selina’s.

According to Ep. 35, Dick became Robin 16 years ago (from current time in WFA), and according to the WFA wiki, Tim figured out Batman and Robin’s IDs at age 9. By adding the typical age Jason dies at (15), Dick’s usual age when Bruce takes him in (8 or 10), and how old Bruce typically is when his parents die (also 8 or 10), along with the typical age ranges of the Bat-family members compared to each other and their apparent ages in the webcomic, we can use some (dubious) math to extrapolate the (at least general) ages of the Bat-family at certain points on the timeline.

Ages of Bat-family members when…

Bruce's parents died: Alfred Pennyworth - late 30's or early 40’s, Jim Gordon - 24 or 26 (figure that looks like Jim seen among background police in Ep. 132 of WFA), Bruce Wayne - 8 or 10 (typically when it happens), Kate Kane - Kid, 13 or under, Selina Kyle - Kid, 13 or under, Barbara Gordon - Infant or 2, Dick Grayson - Not born yet or infant.

16 years ago when Dick became Robin (WFA Ep. 35): Alfred Pennyworth - 40’s, Jim Gordon - 34, Bruce Wayne - at least 18 (would have to be a legal adult to take in a child), Kate Kane - late teens or early 20’s, Selina Kyle - late teens or early 20’s, Barbara Gordon - 10 or 12, Dick Grayson - 8 or 10 (usually how old he is), Luke Fox - at least 4 or 5, Jason Todd - 3, Cassandra Cain - 1 or 2, Harper Row - 1 or 2, Tim Drake - Infant or 1, Steph Brown - Infant or 1, Duke Thomas - Infant or 1.

Damian was born: Alfred Pennyworth - 40's or early 50's, Jim Gordon - 41, Bruce Wayne - at least 25, Kate Kane - mid or late 20’s, Selina Kyle - mid or late 20's, Barbara Gordon - 17 or 19, Dick Grayson - 15 or 17, Luke Fox - at least 11 or 12, Jason Todd - 10, Cassandra Cain - 8 or 9, Harper Row - 8 or 9, Tim Drake - 7 or 8, Steph Brown - 7 or 8, Duke Thomas - 7 or 8, Damian Al Ghul-Wayne - Infant (newborn). 

Jason became Robin: Alfred Pennyworth - 40's or early 50's, Jim Gordon - 41 or 42, Bruce Wayne - at least 25 or 26, Kate Kane - mid or late 20’s, Selina Kyle - mid or late 20's, Barbara Gordon - 19, Dick Grayson - 17 (most likely since he's typically not living at the manor at this point and you can be emancipated at 17), Luke Fox - at least 12 or 13, Jason Todd - 10 or 11, Cassandra Cain - 9 or 10, Harper Row - 9 or 10, Tim Drake - 8 or 9, Steph Brown - 8 or 9, Duke Thomas - 8 or 9, Damian Al Ghul-Wayne - 1 or 2. 

Tim figured out Batman and Robin’s IDs: Alfred Pennyworth - early or mid 50's, Jim Gordon - 42 or 43, Bruce Wayne - at least 27 or 29, Kate Kane - late 20's or early 30's, Selina Kyle - late 20's or early 30's, Barbara Gordon - 19 or 21, Dick Grayson - 17 or 19, Luke Fox - at least 13 or 14, Jason Todd - 12 or 13, Cassandra Cain - 10 or 11, Harper Row - 10 or 11, Tim Drake - 9 (according to WFA wiki), Steph Brown - 9 or 10, Duke Thomas - 9 or 10, Damian Al Ghul-Wayne - 2 or 3. 

Jason Died: Alfred Pennyworth - 50's or early 60's, Jim Gordon - 45 or 47, Bruce Wayne - at least 30 or 32, Kate Kane - 30's, Selina Kyle - 30's, Barbara Gordon - 22 or 24, Dick Grayson - 20 or 22, Luke Fox - at least 16, Jason Todd - 15 (typical age he dies), Cassandra Cain - 13 or 14, Harper Row - 13 or 14, Tim Drake - 12 or 13, Steph Brown - 12 or 13, Duke Thomas - 12 or 13, Damian Al Ghul-Wayne - 5. 

Currently in WFA: Alfred Pennyworth - early or mid 60's, Jim Gordon - at least 40's but probably 50 (going off of when he's present in GCPD, and his greying hair), Bruce Wayne - at least 34 but likely early 40's, Kate Kane - 30's or 40's, Selina Kyle - 30's or 40's, Barbara Gordon - 26 or 28 (a few, probably 2, years older than Dick), Dick Grayson - 24 or 26, Luke Fox - at least in his 20's (MMA Fighter, definitely an adult compared to the other kids), Jason Todd - 19 (given in Ep. 53 of WFA), Cassandra Cain - 17 or 18, Harper Row - 17 or 18, Tim Drake - 16 or 17, Steph Brown - 16 or 17, Duke Thomas - 16 or 17, Damian Al Ghul-Wayne - 9 (given in Ep. 13 of WFA). 

What is the purpose of a mouth if not to scream?

For Halloween, Selina and Bruce would absolutely dress up as Morticia and Gomez Addams and commit to the bit so hard the batkids are still gagging.

Danny Phantom Headcanon - Vlad Has to be Invited into Dwellings

Like a vampire, Vlad has to be invited into a dwelling or he cannot enter. Whether invited as himself or while overshadowing someone, he will be welcome to enter anytime until explicitly told, to his face, that he is no longer welcome by someone who lives in/has a claim to the dwelling, or regardless of his knowledge if the owner of the dwelling themself revokes his welcome. He won’t be compelled to leave if currently in the dwelling, but will not be able to enter again after leaving unless re-invited.

Danny constantly tells Vlad he is not welcome, but since Jack keeps inviting/welcoming him right back into their home, it does practically squat.

I love this post so much, the breakdown on the different fandoms and the fanon phenomenon is so accurate and really helpful, honestly. I also like that you’re not putting down any of these things so much as lamenting improper tagging so that people can find what they actually want.

Personally, I find the best characterizations of the batfam to be well rounded to include positives and negatives from their most common portrayals in comics, movies, shows, and yes, even fanon.

I myself have not read many of the comics, but would like to. It is difficult to do so without spending money, or finding a good starting point, especially for someone who wants to stick within a more PG13 zone of material, and avoid explicit content entirely. Mature is fine, but I prefer to avoid it, which is difficult in Batman comics.

I’m a member of the Danny Phantom Phandom, and have watched the show, but the true joy really does come from expanding on the bones of it, taking the concepts from the show, and working out a larger world, with its own rules, science, and history. I like to try and keep close to canon while expanding on the events and science, but AUs and crossovers are pretty fun as well. I really like to see where things could go after the show, (especially minus Phantom Planet, or in the case of AGIT, after both of those) taking Danny, Jazz, Sam, Tuck, Dani, and even Dan and Vlad, sometimes Jack and Maddie, and seeing how they would change.

When a concept is really good, people play with it, teasing it out in all the different directions they could see it going, creating variations of it, staying close to canon or going far afield. It’s all fun and helps develop the fanon, as well as providing content to the people, and expressing the creativity and thoughts of the creator.

@profandomhopper i was going to reblog the original post this comment was left on but i felt it divorced itself from the original topic so much, you get your own post for giving me delightful permission to ramble about this. buckle in people this is long.

so, DC is a big fandom that expanses a lot of different types of content, and like anything, is subject to crossovers. the obvious ones like Marvel are for the reason of being a similar and equally popular superhero world, so it's easy to transpose the worlds onto each other and overlap the characters. both of these worlds deal with multiverses and endless, endless heroes. it makes sense and there's no real stretch to think Batman and Spider-Man could co-exist. i mean, there have been canon crossover comics. and even some more random crossovers like White Collar have pretty easy to trace origins, being an actor in WC was a popular Dick fancast back in the day so there was some bleeding over that led to a well-loved niche crossover space.

but Danny Phantom and Miraculous Ladybug are where it gets interesting. because at a surface, MLB sort of makes sense. it's a superhero world, you're following a teen girl superhero and sure the mechanics are pretty contained, but the crossover should make sense. but when you compare it to the crossover numbers of other superhero media like say My Hero Academia, Ladybug takes the *crown* with such a bizarre popularity. and of course, DP feels like it makes even less sense. sure, you *could* lump it into at the very least, superhero-adjacent media, but it's not a true hero world like MLB or DC is.

but, the thing to always understand about DC, *especially* the Batfamily (which is where the crossover content propagates the most) is this: a *very* good chunk of fans don't interact with the comics. i would venture to say even most Batfamily fans don't read the comics and actively talk about it. we've all read a very fandom big Batfam fanfic where the author's note mentions the writer has never touched a comic in their life. typically, these fans are either cobbling together their understanding from fandom content, or by frankensteining unrelated DC adaptations to understand each character. you take Bruce from Batman: TAS, you take Dick from the animated Young Justice, you take Jason from Batman: Under The Red Hood animated movie, you take Damian from the DCAMU Batman vs Robin, and you read some fandom metas to fill in the rest and well, you've got some sort of an understanding of these characters. read enough incorrect quotes, some genfic, a couple of character metas, and boom, you understand the Batfamily fandom enough to start creating your own content. and of course now. now you have Wayne Family Adventures so it's even *easier*. a pretty easy to pick up webtoon that's filling in all the gaps for you. but i've been in this fandom long enough to remember before we had WFA and even then, this was still a common, if not the most popular way, to ween yourself into the DC fandom space. you cherry-picked the canon you liked and then plunged into the depths of fanon.

i'm not here to make in depth commentary on if i think this is a good or bad thing. trust me i have that commentary in my head, but that would need it's own post. i'm very split on it and my feelings are complicated. my feelings on WFA are even *more* complicated. because oftentimes, the attitude expressed by these fans who are frankensteining this version of the Batfamily/DC world they have in their head is they don't *want* to read the comics. the comics don't contain the content they're after. and to an extent, i understand that. if you're looking for light-hearted vibes of the Batfamily all getting along and having the occasional hurt/comfort moments but in the end, they hug and make up, you're right. largely, you won't find that in canon. of course there are so many comics to recommend for Batfamily interactions, but you have to get specific. you'll find them interacting in small groups, Tim and Dick bonding here, Duke and Cass bonding there, but largely, the comics don't care to balance the ridiculously large cast they've given themselves. but fandom does. it's easy to toss them all in a blender and ignore the parts you don't like. the default argument to ignoring the comics or writing something OOC is always "well the comics are OOC and inconsistent too" which, while a flawed argument that massively misunderstand how comics work as a medium, isn't an entirely incorrect one. you could serve on a silver platter to these fans, an easy and accessible way to get into comics and they wouldn't be interested. it's not what they're here for. fandom is always character-driven above all else. it's driven by character relationships and dynamics. if someone wants to consume content where Tim idolized and stalked Jason as 'his Robin' and now is trying to help him rehabilitate and they're super complicated but have this long epic forgiveness arc, why *would* they read the comics? because they're sure as shit not going to find that dynamic in the comics. it's laughably OOC and not canon at all, but that doesn't matter. what matters is the sandbox. most Batfamily fans care *far* more about the sandbox canon gives them than the actual canon itself. feel how you feel about that, this really isn't being negative toward that attitude, but it is a common attitude.

so, you have Batfamily fans playing in the sandbox and building their own narrative. common fandom headcanons are so common, you could practically write a guide on how the fanon Batfamily works with how consistent people are about it. or you could just read WFA, which is practically the new manifesto of it. even now, with this sudden spike in people talking about canon accuracy and "actually this happening in the comics", they don't actually care about the comics, just what they can cherry-pick for fodder. (even if they rob it of so much context they're just as OOC as they were before. see specifically: the recent phenomena with Tim Drake going from the woobified weakest member of the Batfam who everyone needs to save constantly and he's the smart boy but he's also the one with a sad tragic neglectful past who gets overlooked being the way Batfamily fandom played with Tim for years. but recently, people seem to be pushing this idea of a ridiculously badass Tim, Tim who *totally* has a kill count because of his actions in RR (2009) if you take them completely out of context, Tim who bested Ra's and is even more badass than Jason and he's the 17 yr old CEO of Wayne Industries being cool and flawless it becoming the new fandom zeitgeist. neither of these versions of Tim are canon, and the second fundamentally misunderstands his arc in RR (2009) but the shift has undeniably happened and it's been fascinating to watch. the same thing happened with people suddenly deciding Jason isn't the "angry violent Robin", he was a sunshine sweet boy who was perfect as Robin. neither of these are true, but the second feels more transgressive and new to fandom from cherry-picked panels.) the point is largely, Batfamily fans would rather build their own canon than play with the actual canon.

and then, you have Danny Phantom. i'm not into DP and have no interest to get into it, but what i know about it via fandom osmosis is this: DP fans sort of also don't give a fuck about canon. once again, the canon of DP is a sandbox, not a rulebook. the concepts and the characters are the draw, not the plot itself. i've seen DP posts explaining characters who are essentially OCs, but have become so dominant in the fandom via fandom osmosis. there are concepts and ideas about how Danny's powers work and potential concepts with his ghost nature that either aren't in canon or only happened once in canon and fans decided to expand on that and doesn't care about it's own in-universe logic. i've seen a lot of DP fans also express they haven't seen the show and they don't have plans to see the show. because the show is just some children's cartoon with some inconsistencies and a simple plot, as you'd expect from CN. the show isn't the point. no one cares about it's plot, they care about it's characters. they care about pushing the concept of half ghost boy to a logical extreme and seeing what you can get out of that. can you make it weird and fucked up. how much can you highlight on his trauma and body horror. what identity crisis can you give him and how can you build his interactions with other characters in his world around that and also make those characters fun and unique on their own. sure, the skeleton of canon is there, but the meat lies all in the fanon.

Miraculous Ladybug also exists in this similar vein. the characters, the concepts, those hold intrigue. and not even mentioning the fact the original concept for this show was supposed to be aimed to an older audience, so you can see the bones of something a bit more mature and nuanced under this typical, villain of the week magical girl transformation show. the show itself is a bit shallow and that's not a *bad* thing, it's just the medium it exists within being aimed towards children. but the concepts of a teen girl who's basically a sort of chosen one, a boy who doesn't know his father is the big bad of the show, and their weird identity porn love... square thing. those dynamics are *so* complicated and such a fun sandbox to play in with character-driven fandom.

so, at the core, you have three fandoms that care more about the culturally accepted fanon than the canon, with a good chunk of people often not even consuming the original canon content. and well, DC is an *easy* world to transpose just about anything onto. a boy who's half ghost and fighting supernatural threats? that makes sense, DC has ghost heroes like Deadman already. a girl who has this magical item that gives her animal themed superpowers? i mean that's practically the same thing as Vixen's Totem so that one makes sense too. they fit in pretty easy, no needing to change the world to accommodate them. and of course, if you're a fan of *one* fandom where you don't care for the canon content and only like the fandom sandbox, chances are, you'll get drawn in pretty easily to another fandom with similar mechanics. if you can teach yourself the DP fandom rules/concepts, you can teach yourself the Batfamily fandom rules/concepts. and well, since there's so much crossover in fandom members, why not write the fanfiction? crossover fics will always exist, but with such a shared member base, you have a really big boom.

it's why the characters you see DP interact with in DC are *always* characters who are far more driven by fanon than canon. Danny and John Constantine is a *massive* concept. for people who don't read Hellblazer comics. my poor partner, @divine-dominion has lamented to me pretty often about finding DP content in the Hellblazer tag that is essentially turning Constantine into an OC. because whatever version of Constantine is being written about isn't one bit comics accurate, and really, isn't trying to be. and the same thing happens with Shazam. you watch Young Justice and understand him well enough, you get drawn in by the character concept that you just run with it. people put their favorite blorbos in the same place because hey, wouldn't ghost boy be pretty cool in a city like *Gotham*. how would Batman even react to him. and then, the shipping. because ages for the Batfamily can be easily hand-waved and moved around based on where you plop Danny into the timeline, you have your pick of the litter with him, and same with Ladybug. of course there are the most popular ships but largely, the world is your oyster.

i don't think this is the worst thing in the world for either fandom. it's not hard to filter out the crossover tags and scroll past content i don't like. and sure, i see the appeal of making your blorbos from two different places meet. i've got my drafts *full* of DC/MHA crossover ideas because well, i like them both and think that would be cool. i think my only gripe with it is when DP or MLB crossover content seeps it's way into the wrong tags. using the above example, if you're writing about Danny and Constantine but there's zero content of the actual Hellblazer comics, i don't think you need the Hellblazer tag, just the Constantine character tag. tbh i wish this extended onto Ao3 and people utilized fandom tags better. if you're writing Batfamily fanfiction that is very clearly and obviously WFA driven in characterization and concepts, i would far prefer those fics be tagged with the WFA fandom tag rather than the Batman (comics) fandom tag. because well, you're not writing about the Batman comics. and there's nothing wrong with that, but it helps if you don't confuse yourself for content striving to interact with canon more. (this especially extends to Young Justice, by the way. if you're writing for the Young Justice tv show please, please stop using the Young Justice (comics) fandom tag. i'm at my wit's end- /lh)

the whole thing is fascinating. i've got zero interest in entering DP or MLB as fandoms because that's not my speed, but witnessing it as an outsider is my favorite pastime. i see a *lot* of posts going around the DC x DP space that are helping explain to people who's who, what's what, and understanding the canon/fanon of both of these properties so others can better enter the space. which is not something you'd need in a fandom driven only by it's canon content, but it is sweet watching others try to help newbies enter the space. it's a very inviting fandom space, i think, whether you lament it's existence or not. they're just sitting in their corner with their blorbos, and i gotta respect that. the posts explaining the Batfamily to DP fans are always fun for me to read, even if i disagree with some of the characterizations in them because it helps shine a light on what the fans of this crossover regard as "important" enough about each fandom to be worth including those sorts of primers. very fascinating stuff.

Little Baby Man Danny I decided to draw at 1am instead of sleeping

Danny Phantom Head Canon - Dani’s Shadow

A ghost’s trauma tends to stick around in one form or another, and reminders are never pleasant.

TL;DR:

Regardless of her physical appearance, current health, and stability, Dani/Ellie’s shadow always appears to be slightly dripping or melting, and more so in ghost form. It’s not overly obvious in human form, and people who notice tend to dismiss it as a trick of the eye.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ellie can’t escape her shadow. It catches the corner of her eye when she’s least expecting it, and her smile wavers. The dripping edges, that half melted arm… Dani looks away. She was never meant to survive.

Danny asks if she’s alright when she doesn’t respond as he’s telling her about his latest scuffle with Skulker, and Dani pastes on a grin, laughing and giving some inane excuse. Of course she’s alright. She’s fine, just fine.

Danielle Dani Ellie it’s Ellie, she’s her own person isn’t she? cracks a joke about the sequel being better than the original, and she’s more than just a failed copy, right? She doesn’t even have her own name.

Danny smiles and laughs, but if his eyes are concerned as he meets hers, carefully avoiding looking at her shadow, neither of them says anything.

He’s just a kid, he doesn’t know how to handle any of this, let alone raise the clone/cousin/sister/daughter he never asked for, and she won’t make him.

She leaves again, and she enjoys traveling, really, she does, but… does she really want to do it alone?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ellie eventually gains confidence in herself, both as her own person, and as Danny’s clone. Just like any kid taking after their parent, sharing his DNA doesn’t change the fact that she’s still her own unique person.

Eventually even the clone jokes are less of a nervous traumatic response and more because she finds them genuinely funny. (Her sense of humor and coping mechanisms definitely take after Danny. Death jokes anyone?)

One day, the dripping, melting form of her shadow will no longer haunt her, but for now… she’s taking it one day at a time.

Half-n-Half

One Halloween, Danny dresses up as a carton of half-n-half for his costume. Literally everyone in town is baffled by this except Sam and Tucker, who only increase the confusion when they react by laughing super hard. Sam is hunched over and holding her stomach and the only thing keeping Tucker from falling to the ground is the fact that he’s leaning on Sam. Danny just has the widest grin on his face as he shoots the two of them finger guns.

Danny Phantom Writing Prompt - Spirit Guide Dani

During her travels, Dani becomes a spirit guide to the afterlife for the ghosts and/or souls of lost, abandoned, and homeless children.

Feel free to write your own takes on this prompt or to continue from my take here!

~~~~~~~~~~~

Dani had seen and experienced a lot of things in her travels. Some were fun and interesting, like visiting the world’s largest corn maze, exploring New York, or learning from that one street performer in Reno. Others… not so much.

There were plenty of periods of monotonous travel, doing/acquiring the basic requirements for human life, and general interaction with people who’ll forget you the moment you’re out of sight. Ellie had done some busking, even some stealing— but, hey, a girl’s got to eat, and ghost powers meant she didn’t get caught.

She didn’t tell Template everything. Dani didn’t want him to lecture her, or worse, to worry. She didn’t want to be a burden. He worried enough when it was just about her being homeless or about her dubious health, and that was without everything else on his plate.

So… when she escaped another kidnapping, didn’t get enough food for the week, survived her first gang shootout, she just… didn’t say anything. It wasn’t like he needed to know. And when Ellie ran into other kids in similar situations… well.

Dani helped them when she could, but sometimes it was just too late. And, well, someone had to make sure they got to the afterlife okay.