Buggy D Clown - Blog Posts

Become the shallow end

Oda being a writer of heavy themes doesn’t mean every random interaction is abuse, that has nothing to do with the fact that Shanks and Buggy are not an abusive friendship. They literally fight over things the way they did as children. Shanks isn’t some helpless guy being abused, nobody thinks this way when they look into them, Buggy having a rough attitude and Shanks being the even-tempered one has always been their dynamic since they were kids. Shanks is capable of tricking Buggy by lying about a treasure map, he knows how to work Buggy, they can bicker and bite back at each other. It’s not even that shitty, it’s just a typical One Piece friendship between men. No one is stopping you from disliking it, it’s how you police other fans from liking a typical dynamic in the story that’s not even presented as toxic.

Posttimeskip, what has Buggy done to Shanks that feels terrible or abusive at its worst? They seem to be living their own lives. What have they done besides being typical enemy pirates working on different things and not talk to each other? Buggy canonically doesn’t even hit Shanks unless Shanks is also hitting him back like Nami does with the Strawhats. Buggy just says he’s angry over the treasure map. You could say objectively, even if Nami hits for the right reasons that’s still bad, beating up someone whenever you think they deserve it and they don’t fight back is still bad.

I basically mean you’re treating the shitty thing as unacceptable because it seems to be one of the crimes Buggy committed against Shanks. What change of behavior? He left to start his own pirate crew, neither of them sought each other out, what change of behavior are we supposed to see? They’re both enemy pirates going after the One Piece, at this point a sudden behavioral change doesn’t make sense and serves no purpose to the plot.

Nothing better to add then Buggy didn’t turn him down civilly. We’re suddenly judging characters by how civil they act in a show about pirates? Their father figure just died it was a pretty emotional moment. It was supposed to be a bad time  and emotional fallout.

I’m explaining why that dynamic exists from the characters’ portrayal in the story. I’m not saying Shanks can ‘handle it’, I’m saying in his view the argument would be so meaningless he would either fight back equally petty or completely forget about it, because that’s who his character is. Most of these arguments are just stuff that annoys them, because there hasn’t been anything they seriously have to fight about, or it just highlights their differences. While Shanks seems to care about fun and adventure, Buggy cares about piracy the connection between him and Shanks is based on their shared life of piracy. So when their views of piracy don’t align they have to separate. When they fight about the North Pole and South Pole, it’s an equal disagreement and we don’t know how it started. When Shanks lied about the treasure map and Buggy gets mad, neither of them actually seem victimized, Shanks just looks smarter and like he knows Buggy well for being able to trick him. That’s their canon dynamic, and the author writes it as a funny way to depict old friends. Friendships have that kind of dynamic where you’re both reckless with each other. You see this kind of dynamic in characters and pairings throughout One Piece. It’s not even about abuse it’s about friendship dynamics being able to do things everything without it becoming a matter of hard feelings, close friends are able fight and be flawed that can be lighthearted without it being overly sensitive about every little thing, realistic close relationships argue and act like idiots. Sanji can simp and Nami can beat people up because they’re close enough they can act like idiots with each other and know it’s not seriously harmful.

What’s the worst thing they have to apologize for? The separation at Loguetown? That was Buggy’s choice as his own free person. Shanks or Buggy could’ve sought out each other for twenty years in East Blue if they wanted to. Neither of them have to apologize, both of them likely have regretful feelings, it was an emotional night where they saw Roger die. As a reader, we should know Buggy doesn’t pose serious harm towards Shanks.

I’m not downplaying Shanks’ emotions. I’m saying between them there aren’t any major fights that are worth taking seriously, besides maybe Loguetown, but even that separation was for the best. Even objectively, it’s not a crime to go their own ways. Any serious fight, Shanks would fight back as he’s not shy about doing so with Buggy, but when he doesn’t it’s because it’s a superficial matter. Or Shanks also has flaws and the problem dynamic goes both ways. Just because Shanks doesn’t visibly shout or get angry doesn’t mean he can’t also be a flawed person and bad partner. I’ve seen your post being angry over the idea Shanks would shower more and drink less if he was with Buggy. Those are both completely inconsequential things that don’t hurt Shanks, it’s just a habit of his that someone could nag him about. Most of the fandom content you seem to complain about aren’t actually as serious as you claim and not worth screaming toxic over, you think even a slight attitude is toxic. I’ve never seen content where Buggy genuinely considers Shanks trash and Shanks suffers through the pain to treat Buggy preciously but you act like it’s everywhere. I’m not sure what example you’re talking about when it comes to serious arguments where Buggy treats him like trash over something genuinely serious and Shanks just doesn’t fight back. Most seem either like a joke or an inconsequential fight like the fruit and map, or because of the Loguetown fallout which was a miscommunication as kids anyways, so what other serious matter is there?

So many of these characters would be crazy in real life, if I was constantly thinking about real life I wouldn’t be able to watch the Strawhats because they’d be so much worse in real life. Buggy having an attitude and still being simped after looks incredibly tame compared to viewing the other characters through a real world lens. But this is a fantasy story where the bad attitudes play a role in entertainment and over-exaggerating character dynamics.

I understand if you just don’t like a character dynamic, but this is a fantasy story where every character dynamic is exaggerated for entertainment in some way. They’re enemy pirates, they aren’t even currently on speaking terms. One is the one who holds no grudges, the other still does, and fans just play on this existing dynamic because it aligns with their characters. It’s not even that absurd because Buggy is someone close to Shanks, they separated, had a petty fight, and are separately operating their own crews. Personally I don’t care for the overuse of Shanks as a lovesick dog but that’s a general fandom issue and not even that big of a deal.

So you refuse to accept that others might have a gentler interpretation of Buggy’s character by denying canon itself. Yet you claim this is not a bad faith reading at all, yeah, sure.

This isn’t Buggy is a tsundere argument, I never even used that word. The treasure map specifically is used as a joke and coverup in canon. We literally see Buggy using that as an excuse during Loguetown separation, when his true feelings were actually hidden, did you miss that? The treasure map is the petty thing you did that your old friend keeps bringing up. Buggy’s anger at Shanks is because of their separation at Loguetown. His inner thoughts and spoken words were different, because his inner thoughts were his real feelings. That’s what the men of One Piece are like, they don’t genuinely say their emotions because they have too much pride as men and pirates. By having Buggy use the treasure map excuse in Loguetown, it makes us understand the feelings he had everytime he said that before.

In Impel Down, there was an instance where Luffy was also very happy to see Buggy alive. Buggy is clearly treated as an annoyance like Mr 3. You don’t have to be a saint, more like understand that in the world of pirates fights happen all the time, and you learn to choose which squabbles are worth your time. Buggy is like a rock in his shoe, he’s annoying but he’s not someone like Blackbeard or Akainu. Luffy doesn’t like Buggy but he recognizes Buggy’s just a loser with some petty grudge against Shanks. If Buggy was seriously harmful towards Shanks he wouldn’t act so nonchalant with him. You think Buggy is going to be the villain that’s hardest to forgive? Buggy obviously is being shown in a more positive light when he made the speech about the One Piece and roped in Crocodile and Mihawk, when he sent money to a man’s dying family. The Roger Pirates still think well of Buggy.

We can’t really say why Rayleigh left, he’s also a mystery when it comes to his motivations and thoughts. Buggy leaving was the right decision anyways, you can’t be the subordinate to someone else if you have conflict with them and don’t agree with their goals. Look at what happened with Usopp and Luffy, that kind of conflict tears the crew apart and places a burden on the Captain. Buggy leaving was the best decision for both of them. Otherwise Shanks would’ve been like Luffy and prioritized his friend over his role as Captain. Buggy would’ve been a bad friend and bad crewmate had he joined Shanks and disrespected him as Captain and duelled him, but he never joined, they stayed apart as two fellow Captains on different paths.

The business of pirates is a lot like the mafia or criminal gangs, you have to hold your own and protect your reputation. I know some fans were shocked that Shanks’ crew blew up Bartolomeo’s crew even when he displayed such loyalty to Luffy. That’s just how the business of pirates is. 

I think it’s important to consider Shuggy in the context of the One Piece story, that’s where the authorial intent is. Especially for Shanks who still has many mysterious motivations and subtle readings to his character. Buggy acts like a regular pirate, and his attitude towards Shanks has constantly been regarded as petty beef between close friends. Amongst the many over-exaggerated character dynamics in One Piece, it’s not meant to be harmful, even outside of the author’s intent it just seems like a typical close relationship between two guys, and they’re extremely chummy for two enemy pirate Captains. Even Kinemon and his wife’s story was more ‘toxic’, he constantly stole money from her and he gambled it away and she paid off his debts while he was ungrateful. So many relationships use bickering and nagging as a way to signify closeness. Compared to canon couples the level of ‘harmful’ Buggy was towards Shanks wasn’t even that bad. You just seem extremely biased towards Buggy as if he’s a real person without understanding the common tropes utilized in the story and that he’s meant to be shown as someone important to and liked by Shanks. You say Shanks’ feelings are important, but Buggy’s feelings are also important since his dreams and desires have been given such spotlight as one of the Four Emperors. There is more to Buggy and he’s not just a harmful presence, his feelings have been given meaning and validation in the story.

I can understand if you just dislike Buggy on his own, nobody has to like a character, but tagging your hate about how harmful Buggy is while acting like you’re in a parasocial relationship with Shanks and policing others on the ship, you’re being completely irrational. 

I’m trying to explain why the dynamic exists. To us, we already know Shanks’ life is cool and admirable, but for Buggy that’s not what he wanted, while Shanks did want Buggy with him. If Buggy is so worthless in your eyes, then leaving was him doing what’s best for Shanks, despite Shanks’ wishes. Shanks loves his friends and loved ones more than anything, nothing can compare to that, you should know that as a fan. It’s not Buggy specifically, it’s any one of Shanks’ friends. If Yasopp suddenly left the crew to go back home, it would also be like Shanks lost someone precious, Yasopp is precious to him. That’s just Shanks’ character, his friends are his most precious treasure.

I knew you’d bring up Usopp since you’re not understanding the story. Usopp joined the crew and accepted Luffy as his Captain, then he belittled Luffy’s authority and challenged him to a duel to win the Going Merry as its Captain. When he tried to beat up Luffy and lost he even got pitied by being given the ship. Luffy not chasing after him wasn’t a matter of personal feelings, it was his responsibility as Captain and for their pride as pirates, and even then afterwards Luffy eagerly wanted to get Usopp back without apologies needed, but Zoro was the one who stopped him and couldn’t ignore the duel with the Captain and demanded he apologize. It’s a completely different situation from Buggy who turned down Shanks before he could accept him as his Captain. If even Luffy wanted to go after Usopp after the major disrespect and conflict he caused, of course Shanks would wish he could go after Buggy. I don’t think Buggy is particularly precious, but he is an important enough friend to Shanks for him to be that way.

Maybe Shanks will be revealed to be whatever you think he is, but we can’t be completely sure that’s what’s going on with him. He sure does seem like a good sacrificing hero. It’s more about how you thinks Shanks gets utterly wronged by the slightest offense because he’s some holy suffering figure, and that restricts your ability to see him as a fully fledged person. I think in ships and stories people prefer to think of Shanks as a human who is flawed and can be made fun of like other characters and not make everything about how great and noble of a sacrifice Shanks is. So fandom tends to blow up flaws because we see so little of him, like him being a careless drunk or giant baby, but that’s a general fandom issue. We know Shanks is cool, strong, goodlooking, most fans know that Buggy can’t match up to him, but to his close friends he can just be a normal guy without the pressure. Everyone probably worships or acts careful around an Emperor, so it’s more precious when someone treats him like a casual friend. In a relationship there has to be a reason why Shanks likes Buggy, he must love Buggy because he treats him like he did when they were kids. That’s a very possible interpretation that has nothing to do with toxicity.

Oh yeah, that dastardly kid. How dare he eat a fake devil fruit and keep a treasure map he found from an enemy pirate? The crew freely gave that fruit away for anyone to eat, and yeah, he’s a pirate who stole a map from an enemy. Maybe it’s just me, but in this story where the characters literally commit many crimes, a kid stealing on a pirate ship is not that bad. This is the same crew that was going to disband a year later anyways and leave Shanks and Buggy to fend for themselves.

There’s a difference between admitting a character is bad and what you’re doing. You talk about Buggy as if everything about him is an atrocity towards Shanks, and that everybody else has to feel the same. At most, it’s likely that Buggy is just meant to be greedy and dumb but harmless. Zosan or Shuggy, they are pretty similar in that they’ve both got a dynamic as naturally opposing forces, they both misunderstand each other and don’t fit over their differences. It’s not that Shuggy can’t be toxic or angsty, it’s literally filled with tons of angst content and messy exes content, but it’s not all because Buggy is the worst friend and undeserving which is how you make it out to be. It’s as if someone demanded reformation from Zosan fans for having Zoro loving on Sanji when it should be Sanji redeeming himself in Zoro’s eyes for his sexual harassment and for leaving the crew and Sanji should be asking for forgiveness from Zoro for beating up the Captain he gave everything for.

Shanks swooning over his lover is literally in every Shanks ship and Shanks x reader and Shanks x oc. Shanks being written as a sad and mentally unwell man is not that common anywhere. You literally just said that you think Shanks would be a simp in any ship, so every Shanks shipper is guilty of this. A lot of Shuggy content is when they’re younger too when Shanks didn’t have those problems, so you’re just saying things that other Shanks ships are more guilty of as they’re ‘pretending a troubled Shanks has a clear mind and being all lovey dovey’. I actually think then there’s too much Shanks and Luffy content that erases Shanks’ troubles over Uta and not enough Shanks and Uta content. Shanks might be depressed, but he’s still gonna try to have a positive mindset and maintain his old personality. If anything, Shuggy shippers are the only shippers who act like Shanks is flawed and unwell and copes badly, thus the jokes of he doesn’t wash and drinks too much. He isn’t alright because he misses Uta and Buggy. So shouldn’t you like Shuggy shippers because of this? Outside of Shuggy, people say Shanks is a whore who sleeps around and he has too many kids he abandons and neglects. But Shuggy shippers saying Shanks misses and longs for Buggy fits right into your characterization of him as a sad man who holds in his feelings.

I do agree Shanks has inner struggles going on. I think the ship doesn’t worsen or cheapen his struggles any more than others. Plenty of characters made sacrifices, they are both pirates and grown men, I very much doubt we’re supposed to clutch our pearls over people not treating him delicately. You’re too focused on characters not having the proper attitude when that’s just a typical friendship in One Piece. We don’t even have the whole picture of Shanks’ character and his plans. I’m not even saying I understand Shanks completely, but that’s why there’s gonna be different interpretations. He can have issues and still show love and happiness like many people do, he doesn’t have to be sulking and brooding all the time. Even in the middle of Marineford when Ace was dead a few meters away, Shanks was smiling at Buggy and happy to see him. So doesn’t that mean Shanks’ mood got lifted just because of Buggy? But all you keep saying is Buggy harmful, Shanks the victim in their toxic relationship. Plenty of fans have biases and they freely admit that and just have fun with it. You can’t even admit you have a bias, it hinders your ability to read correctly. The author certainly doesn’t care if fans are loving Buggy too much and not focusing enough on the problems he brings to a relationship.

There are are countless metaphors, you could’ve used the one about cattle. We’re talking about petty hate, comparing that to speaking out against colonizers isn’t even anywhere near the same topic nor the same level and I prefer not to stoop to that.

Dude. This isn't about canon one piece. Obviously in canon one piece they don't have a toxic relationship. They aren't even near eachother. This was never about canon one piece. Never. You keep bringing up canon one piece and their relationship there to "disprove" me when it was never about that. It was about Shuggy. Nor did i say Shanks isnt a grown man. He is. Though you are downplaying his sacrifice as "well something pirates just do" like every pirate out there would give an arm to save a kid. Plus, Shanks wasnt even the one to take the initiative to shoot down Bart, it was Yassop. Shanks was ready to just let it slide for Luffy, but Yasopp took initiative to remind Shanks that there needs to be consequences. Also about you "Knowing i would bring up Usopp" yeah obviously. That moment is the closest gotten to what Shanks and Buggy have gone through, theres no 1 to 1. I don't know why you're using that as a "gotcha". I kept using your points and using one piece moments to argue against it but now that I have you're just bringing up their canon relationships when it hardly matter because they don't itneract. Anyone would react the way Shanks did when he saw Buggy, if i saw a childhood bully I'd react the same, its just someone familiar and like you said they were children so the bickering didn't matter it was just bickering. Of course Shanks isnt some helpless guy in canon, no shit. I wasn't talking about canon, I was talking about the popular and normalized Shuggy relationship. Like 85% of this is trying to defend Buggy and Shanks's relationship in canon saying it isn't toxic 10% of it actual argument and the other 5% is bringing up that damn metaphor again. Your argument with Zosan isn't even applicable because my while point in bringing up Zosan previously is that they're not toxic, just have some elements of argument. Yet they are more aware of that than Shuggy shippers and the toxification of their ship. Genuinely I want you to take away the percentages of this where you bring up things that don't matter because so many of your arguments is bringing up their canon relationship when they hardly even have one and I was going off of how they interact and how the Shuggy media uses it to paint Shanks as an infant that can't defend himself. Its not me saying that, i'm going off of them. As for my "parasocial relationship" what a way to put it just because I don't like Shanks being used as an accessory.

So honestly if you want a proper reply to this "argument" you need to write something bringing up SHUGGY. Because right now I was using the Shuggy basis and bringing up canon to show both of their psyches and how it would work in a relationship like that, using the Shuggy dynamic as a mold. What you're doing is bringing up the canon relationship and then trying to use that to "debunk" me saying that they have a toxic relationship in canon when the only time i said that was that Buggy was a bad friend and at worst abusive. You said you were a "Shanks fan" but this is really reading as you're just a Shuggy fan that likes Shanks and how he is a cute little puppy simp in Shuggy despite the only way he would be like that when Buggy would treat him how its popularized is if there was a toxic dynamic, again, me using Shuggy as the mold, not the canon current relationship. There hardly is one. Im not even gonna tag this one Shuggy because there is nothing Shuggy about your reply to me, you were just bringing up the canon as a mold and "gotcha"ing me because Luffy doesn't have a 1 to 1 Buggy reference and that my metaphor was too crazy for you.

As a Shanks fan I need you to stop tagging your posts and making us look bad. The more you write the more clear it is this is a bad faith reading, bashing while not understanding the writing. Your only precedent on examining these characters is based on stacking morality points on how nice and good they are, rather than their roles in the plot and their thematic relevance as narrative foils, their longstanding history and familiarity, the continued relevance of their intertwined journeys and emotional energy in the story. You seem set on seeing them as abusive when that’s clearly not what Oda means, their character dynamics play a role in telling the story and I assure you it’s not a message of abuse. But of course, there are fans who think Nami hitting the Strawhats is abusive so I shouldn’t be surprised. You can’t even seem to reflect on your own self and realize your own views are infinitely more toxic.

So Buggy left when they were both 15 and traumatized and somehow thats the most unacceptable thing. Yeah, whatever, hate them for petty things, but don’t act like you have some superior understanding when it’s just the most typically shallow reading. Your dislike is your own, but policing others because you lack the ability to comprehend is not okay.

Is this apologizing business really some big thing to cry over? Shanks wanted Buggy to come with him, Buggy turned him down. They were ex-comrades and pirates, obviously Buggy was free to leave and start his own pirate crew, Shanks even said they both should. Many of Buggy’s complaints are just petty things Shanks probably doesn’t even care that much about. But to Buggy it does matter so he cares more about getting closure from that time. Shanks doesn’t even care about the fruit or the map, he’s just glad to see Buggy again. They might fight but ultimately Shanks cares more about Buggy than any petty grudge and is more likely to forgive and apologize for little things, even just jokingly or to appease him, because it’s not a big deal for him to do it. To Shanks, friends are what’s important, so words and actions needed for his friend are a small thing. Villainizing Buggy and resenting his rejection is probably the last thing Shanks would want in that situation. He’s not gonna be a spiteful victim because someone got mad and left of their own free will. He’d rather be a loser who apologizes and begs for his friend.

The whole issue with ‘apologizing’…it’s not a big deal. A lot of times it seems to be treated as a joke. The treasure map is supposed to be seen as a stupid reason not worth getting up in arms about. Buggy being mad over the treasure map is treated as a joke and an excuse as a way to cover up that he really cares about Shanks. But this whole thing just seems like you’re mad when Shanks simps for Buggy and Buggy acts like he typically would. How is it hard to believe that Buggy is important to Shanks and Shanks would express that to him? Are you really so caught up on just hating on Buggy’s personality and him being a regular pirate you can’t stand him being treated like someone important? He’s one of the Four Emperors going after the One Piece and you don’t think his desires and feelings have some significance?

Buggy may have left, but that was all within his rights to do so, even the other Roger Pirates left these kids. For the current Buggy to apologize he’d probably struggle to get over his feelings, but to Shanks why get hung up over petty grievances if it’s for a friend? That’s just their personalities. Sure, Buggy could apologize, but it’s just not like him, and it’s not even that necessary anyways. Obviously knowing Buggy’s character he gets overdramatic and too emotionally invested he can’t let things go, while Shanks will let go of things because he cares. Luffy too learns to forgive and let things go, it’s one of the things he learned from Shanks. We get hit on the head so many times by this kind of message. When Luffy happily bows down and passes up on the opportunity to leave Amazon Lily just so he can save a few people he just met…there’s nothing wrong with giving in and bowing down when it’s not worth it otherwise.

Shanks couldn’t communicate his real reasons and wanted Buggy to join him but got rejected, so as the Captain who was rejected by Buggy who was willing to be part of his crew, it seems like Shanks was the one who lost out. Of course Shanks longs for his friend and would care for him. Luffy would also chase someone if it was his friend. This isn’t an abuser and victim relationship, it doesn’t matter who was wrong because there was never any actual communication. We don’t even know Shanks’ perspective and his reasons, only Buggy’s, so we just see they had their differences and Buggy felt disappointed. They wanted to prioritize different things because that’s how they’ve always been as pirates, not because one is an abuser, they are grown men who used to argue a lot.

If Shanks wanted to truly protect Luffy he would’ve done something like actually reach out to him and communicate to him. Shanks knew the risks when he encouraged Luffy to be a pirate and return his hat. He knew Luffy would be in danger especially with his fruit. That’s how it is in the pirate world, you can’t make it if you don’t put your life on the line and fight others. Luffy had to survive and overcome that if he wanted to get anywhere near the New World, Shanks knew that. He knew people would try to kill Luffy, that’s how the pirate world is, but Luffy would never become strong if he didn’t experience that. Anyways, Buggy is obviously supposed to be a tame joke villain. He didn’t even kill the villagers in Orange Town, the villagers evacuated to a shelter beforehand and he just raids the houses and blows them up.

I think you have this image of Shanks as this delicate abuse victim and Saint-like Christ figure (ironic) when he’s just a pirate who knows he and others have had to make sacrifices. All I can say is, you really think that? Okay, can’t help you there. 

You just seem to really hate Buggy and refuse to accept any positive take on Buggy. You even hate him for harmless things he did as a literal child. You want Buggy to be portrayed as trash and dirt compared to Shanks, but in a ship where fans love both characters and Shanks cherishes Buggy that’s obviously not going to happen. It’s clear that you’re biased so you can’t reasonably have a good take on this, all you do is victimize Shanks. How hypocritical that you complain about others having no insight when you’re way worse.

There’s so much stuff about Shanks fandom to criticize but the fact that you fixate on Shanks caring about Buggy as the worst thing, that’s just mindless hate you shouldn’t be tagging. The best understanding of Shanks I‘ve seen was from shuggy fans, I’m gonna trust them from now on.

Also are you seriously trying to compare your petty hate of a fictional character to speaking out about the literal atrocities done by colonizers of America? Please think before you speak.

Okay im tired of explaining this just as is so im just gonna take bullet points and say my piece and thats it because ive made two posts now explaining as best as I can and still somehow its being misunderstood as me being some sort of toxic Shanks fan thats making them look bad for some reason. This is literally me analyzing him and showing the problems of Shuggy people don't want to accept.

"The more you write the more clear it is this is a bad faith reading, bashing while not understanding the writing." Im not saying this in bad faith. That is why i tagged it as Shuggy. Not for some sort of ragebait or to spew hate i just really want the dynamic of angst fix-it stuff to change or atleast be more popular. And again, I understand the writing perfectly well. I'm rereading the manga and literally have not just been saying whats on the top of my head im looking into it.

"Your only precedent on examining these characters is based on stacking morality points on how nice and good they are, rather than their roles in the plot and their thematic relevance as narrative foils, their longstanding history and familiarity, the continued relevance of their intertwined journeys and emotional energy in the story." If this is how even if Buggy is bad it means they can still be together because they work well i literally agree its the dynamic. I cannot stress this enough i don't know how this isn't going through.

"You seem set on seeing them as abusive when that’s clearly not what Oda means, their character dynamics play a role in telling the story and I assure you it’s not a message of abuse." Oda has included abuse, suicide, addictions in his story and you really think he wouldnt sprinkle in the fact that Buggy was an abusive friend. Im not even saying he 100% was i said at worst. An abusive friendship is different than one thats a relationship too, and again i said at worst.

"But of course, there are fans who think Nami hitting the Strawhats is abusive so I shouldn’t be surprised." What she does was objectively bad, and she's toned it down a LOT post timeskip. Part of her character development that now you can safely say when she hits they either kinda deserve it or she doesn't really go rough with it.

"So Buggy left when they were both 15 and traumatized and somehow thats the most unacceptable thing. Yeah, whatever, hate them for petty things, but don’t act like you have some superior understanding when it’s just the most typically shallow reading. Your dislike is your own, but policing others because you lack the ability to comprehend is not okay." I never said it was the most unacceptable thing, i meant it was the most shitty thing he could do. You mentioned somewhere elsr they were 15, which is true, but as time goes by and Buggy doesnt change that excuse is out the window.

"Is this apologizing business really some big thing to cry over?" Its a major thing, and is something thats used for Shanks to Buggy that is seen as a major thing i dont know why im being posed as overly dramatic when i say it would be way better if it were buggy apologizing to Shanks.

"Shanks wanted Buggy to come with him, Buggy turned him down. They were ex-comrades and pirates, obviously Buggy was free to leave and start his own pirate crew, Shanks even said they both should." You're acting like Buggy turned Shanks down civily and it was not a decision of emotion.

"They might fight but ultimately Shanks cares more about Buggy than any petty grudge and is more likely to forgive and apologize for little things, even just jokingly or to appease him, because it’s not a big deal for him to do it. To Shanks, friends are what’s important, so words and actions needed for his friend are a small thing. Villainizing Buggy and resenting his rejection is probably the last thing Shanks would want in that situation. He’s not gonna be a spiteful victim because someone got mad and left of their own free will. He’d rather be a loser who apologizes and begs for his friend." And this is the problem! this! Just because Buggy cares more than Shanks doesn't mean that Shanks doesn't deserve to be atleast understood. Shanks would rather act like a loser to get Buggy than value himself is literally a toxic behavior for relationships. I beg of you to think of this in real life. Imagine Shanks as some chick and Buggy as the boyfriend and its very very clear that you just brushing it off as "oh well Shanks can handle it" sucks! It sucks! I've seen relationships like that and they suck! Its okay for comedy the same reason Nami's hitting is or Brook's panty loving is but when you're writing or drawing it seriously you can't just paint it as something okay when the reason why Shanks would put himself down for Buggy is because Shanks is mentally unwell! He deserves a Buggy that would actually treat him preciously instead of the now normalized "oh you're trash but ill forgive you I guess" Its not even a point of "oh well Shanks wouldn't mind!" You're right! But YOU should! Because you are the outsider looking in, the one that can look through an objectjve lens where you arent a dependent man that needs any sort of companion.

"He didn’t even kill the villagers in Orange Town, the villagers evacuated to a shelter beforehand and he just raids the houses and blows them up." This literally doesn't matter since Buggy has talked about killing before and I don't even think is true. There was a shelter because he just likely didn't kill all of them, but "just" some. And doing that is pretty bad in of itself.

"Buggy being mad over the treasure map is treated as a joke and an excuse as a way to cover up that he really cares about Shanks." Here with the "oh but Buggy's just a tsundere" If i never do anything for you ever because you made me drop my icecream 10 years ago does me being a tsundere just make it okay. This isn't even fully true. It's not a cover-up Buggy isn't just some little cute tsundere he holds malice. He IS mad about that still its not a cover up because oh well he still cares it can be both, and its mostly just actual anger. Because why else would he bring it up even when he doesn't have to cover up affection.

"Luffy too learns to forgive and let things go, it’s one of the things he learned from Shanks. We get hit on the head so many times by this kind of message" Letting go and liking the person is two seperate things. You're acting like Luffy is just some angel when he has also been shown again to really not like Buggy and some people. In impel down he doesn't want to rescue Buggy but ends up doing so so he can get to Ace "which buggy tries to betray" and in basically every instance where Buggy is brought up around Luffy Luffy has literally only bad things to say about Buggy so idk why you're acting like Luffy is some saint that would forgive anything. Im rereading impel down and he also didn't want to forgive Crocodile, he just needed the help, still doesn't like Crocodile too. Luffy shows dislike, its just not super loud, he shows it through not helping. He even only helped Hachi during pre ts only when Nami said it was okay. Shanks doesn't forgive everything either. The lesson Shanks taught Luffy wasn't "forgjve everyone". Thats what Luffy THOUGHT it was when he was a little kid. But thr actual lesson was just to be more mature, to be careful. To not fight at every chance because you could be endangering others. Difference between forgiving someone and just letting it not bother you so that you can use them, as Luffy has showed.

"Buggy may have left, but that was all within his rights to do so, even the other Roger Pirates left these kids." Rayleigh leaving Shanks was not a good thing for Rayleigh to do, especially since Rayleigh also knows whats going on, but he just left a 15 year old to just deal with it because he wanted to toughen the kid up or something idk, theres a lot of "just suck it up buttercup" in One Piece because thats what Oda thinks is cool and nice and manly, he isn't perfect. Also Buggy did have the right to leave, the problem is that he didn't leave because he wanted to start his own crew or find the one piece himself it was just because of the conflict between him and Shanks. It was not a clear decision.

"If Shanks wanted to truly protect Luffy he would’ve done something like actually reach out to him and communicate to him. Shanks knew the risks when he encouraged Luffy to be a pirate and return his hat. He knew Luffy would be in danger especially with his fruit. That’s how it is in the pirate world, you can’t make it if you don’t put your life on the line and fight others." I agree with this and I also feel it was the right thing to do unfortunately, s Luffy has a huge thing he needs to do even if he isn't aware of what he's doing. However, this is what Shanks chose, Buggy didn't go for Luffy because he wanted to toughen Luffy up he went for Luffy because he hates Luffy and his strawhat that reminds him of Shanks and the fact that he's also developing the same complex with Luffy that he was with Shanks, though not as strong since they aren't really together often.

"But this whole thing just seems like you’re mad when Shanks simps for Buggy and Buggy acts like he typically would. How is it hard to believe that Buggy is important to Shanks and Shanks would express that to him? Are you really so caught up on just hating on Buggy’s personality and him being a regular pirate you can’t stand him being treated like someone important? He’s one of the Four Emperors going after the One Piece and you don’t think his desires and feelings have some significance?" I don't know how you came to the conclusion this is what I think. Im not against Shanks simping for Buggy, I believe Shanks would be a simp in any relationship, this is more about how Buggy reacts in turn. Would be fine if it was just some shyness but its not. Buggy's harmful. I really don't know where i said I don't think Buggy is important. I just hate him as a person. As a character hes funny and a good character objectively and I think that he matters in the story I just don't like him as him. I'm not some person that wishes he would stay unimportant, i never said that. This is not about the story of One Piece this is about Shuggy.

"Shanks couldn’t communicate his real reasons and wanted Buggy to join him but got rejected, so as the Captain who was rejected by Buggy who was willing to be part of his crew, it seems like Shanks was the one who lost out. Of course Shanks longs for his friend and would care for him. Luffy would also chase someone if it was his friend." Would missing out on being a crewmember of a famous crew not be way more of a loss than not getting an already disloyal person as a subordinate. Shanks was important to Buggy too, I don't know why you're acting like Buggy is so precious in comparison to Shanks that its only Shanks that could miss out. Also, my friend, did you miss the ENTIRE ARC WHERE LUFFY LET GO OF A FRIEND BECAUSE HE WAS DISLOYAL!??? Did that just disappear in your mind?? The difference between Buggy and Usopp is that Usopp actually manned up and apologized in order to get on the crew. The entire point of the last scene was that if Usopp did not apologize they were actually going to leave him! Luffy is different from Shanks because Shanks would depend on someone toxic, atleast in the Shuggy that's normalized, while its canon that if a friend was truly toxic and a crewmember was bad that Luffy would leave. Cmon man! Why are you telling me I don't understand the story like I'm stupid when you just completely glossed over water 7 😭

"I think you have this image of Shanks as this delicate abuse victim and Saint-like Christ figure (ironic) when he’s just a pirate who knows he and others have had to make sacrifices. All I can say is, you really think that? Okay, can’t help you there." Its funny how you say ironic when it is ironic. Thats the point. That Shanks is a sacrifice. That is what Oda is alluding to with Shanks if not consiously than unconsious. I beg of you to think about it. A person that has sacrificed everything, their dreams, their friendship, their sanity, and even their limb, for a God of Freedom to help free the world. That is what Shanks is, a sacrifice for the greater good. Just like how they were trying to portray Robin's death/servitude in enies lobby as a sacrifice for the greater good. It is not "ironic" it is the point. It is not the first time Oda has pitted someone as a sacrifice for the greater good.

"You even hate him for harmless things he did as a literal child." Ah yes the harmless actions like creating an entire fake devil fruit to eat so that he can pocket the actual one and sell it for money to use to kickstart his own crew and find treasure on a map that he kept from the same crew that raised him with care and freedom. He didn't just do that on a whim, he planned that shit. It was only stopped by Shanks interruption. If not he would've straight up left the crew that raised him and done what he wanted. Im not saying him being a child doesn't constitute some slack but theres only so much slack you can give when it was so very clearly thought out on his end to betray.

"You want Buggy to be portrayed as trash and dirt compared to Shanks, but in a ship where fans love both characters and Shanks cherishes Buggy that’s obviously not going to happen. It’s clear that you’re biased so you can’t reasonably have a good take on this, all you do is victimize Shanks. How hypocritical that you complain about others having no insight when you’re way worse." ????? You can love both characters of a ship and admit that theyre bad. Crocodile shippers do it all the time. So do people who like all sorts of other villians. Kaido, Crocodile, Akainu, a lot. It really feels like Buggy is the only villian that people ship and use while pretending like he's not been truly horrible. Zosan shippers are more aware of the toxicity that could be between them, and use that as a story point and not something to just brush aside or even romantisize without some sort of angst thing where they know its toxic. And their dynamic isn't nearly as toxic as the normalized Shuggy one. It really feels like you have more bias than me since the plot points so far some of them have clear holes or are ignoring huge things. And again with the Shanks thinking, a toxic relationship can be toxic while the victim thinks everything is okay. A lot of bad relationships stay relationships because of that.

"There’s so much stuff about Shanks fandom to criticize but the fact that you fixate on Shanks caring about Buggy as the worst thing, that’s just mindless hate you shouldn’t be tagging. The best understanding of Shanks I‘ve seen was from shuggy fans, I’m gonna trust them from now on." No. The understanding of Shanks that YOU want is with Shuggy fans. Because when you're a Shuggy fan you get to just deny that anything is wrong with Shanks mentally and that he's just a handsome man that can swoon over his lover and not someone who has very clear faults and mental issues. You can just pretend like Shanks is completely clear of mind so you can use him as a little puzzle piece to fit into anything you want to add a "simp" factor to a ship. Because if you really wanted the "best" understanding of Shanks you'd accept the fact that he is not a completely alright person. He doesn't "brush off" things like they don't matter. They hurt. He just holds it in. With Uta he bit the bullet and left for her sake, but he held it in. When he lost his arm and Luffy despaired we never saw him do anything to show distress over his lost arm, because he held it in. The only time we ever notice that he does feel pain is when he's talking with whitebeard and confesses to the scar on his eye stinging, and surprise surprise, it wasn't to vent his emotions, it was just in attempt to save Ace. Not for himself. He was sad that he's missing an arm, because in the same scene he even says "the scar that hurts most/more is my eye" not "the one that hurts" showing that his arm does hurt. Because losing a dominant arm would hurt anyone. Especially when it lost him Mihawk, another relationship he sacrificed to save something or someone. Yet unlike Buggy Mihawk still is somewhat amicable to Shanks. Mature. Even if he isn't perfect either (ex: completely okay with dying by Zoro's hand and doesn't have any goals now that he achieved world's greatest swordsman. His only friend was Shanks who he left once he couldn't be a suitable rival, showing a dependence on what he knows as Shanks was likely the only one that he had in his life to teach him any sort of friendship).

"Also are you seriously trying to compare your petty hate of a fictional character to speaking out about the literal atrocities done by colonizers of America? Please think before you speak." What the hell did you want me to do. Clearly just saying what I mean isn't working, metaphors are what usually help people finally understand. Yet instead of seeing the metaphor i used you just focused on that it was a cruel one like the point of me using it wasn't to show the cruelness. What other metaphor did you want me to use. You need to learn that a metaphor =/= me saying its the same thing. You brought that up just to make me seem like im a mindless hater that brought up atrocities for nothing. Do you get mad when people who talk about history compare the way slaves were treated to the treatment of cattle too? Since using your logic whatever a metaphor is must mean that you think they're the same thing. A metaphor or comparison is a just a tool. Unless you're gonna send some thing calling me crazy because i used another comparison.

No one is more annoying than you tagging your hate. Seeing how you guys act, only Shuggy fans will get my support and other Shanks ships get nothing but my hate. Shuggy fans are truly the only tolerable Shanks shippers. The rest of you need to get your act together or find something else to do because you don’t even understand the story or the characters.

I literally wrote this whole thing about the problems with Shuggy but i got distracted and accidentally closed the app so im just gonna say if you really think that I'm not understanding the point or the story or the characters then you need to reread/rewatch one piece because everything Oda has put out has not been shy or subtle in showing that Buggy is toxic. Buggy stomped and stabbed Luffy's treasure, tried killing him multiple times, then in impel down Luffy forgave and struck a deal with him and Buggy tried to fuck him over again despite acknowledging himself through inner dialogue that Luffy is incredibly trusting and only a monster would betray him, and then shamelessly trying to betray him.

The whole point of his character in Impel down/Marineford is that Buggy is horrible and his karma is that he's forced to help in order to save his own ass since at every corner he's ready to betray, just like Shanks and the Roger Pirates. Shanks tried to be brotherly friends, Buggy felt inferior so he constantly picked fights, The Roger pirates raise Buggy with love, Buggy tries to steal a treasure map and devil fruit so that he can sell the fruit off and go find the treasure for himself and blames Shanks despite the reason Shanks approaches him is to check on Buggy, but Buggy still blamed Shanks despite it being his choice to be an idiot and stuff the fruit in his mouth to hide it while letting go of the map. When the Roger crew disbanded and Roger died Buggy made it about him. He said he was willing to give up "everything" for Shanks or whatever and then Shanks betrayed him and thats the whole reason why Shuggy lovers coddle Buggy and demonize Shanks but Shanks also sacrificed everything basically. He stayed behind for Buggy when Buggy was sick and missed the last of the adventures with his father figure and being able to go to the last island. Shanks sacrifices everything. Buggy was mean to Shanks even before the "betrayal" which was just Shanks saying he didn't want to go for the One Piece.

Then he blames everything on Shanks and leaves Shanks at his most vulnerable time since as the story goes on we're learning more and more that clearly something traumatizing and burdening happened to Shanks that made him give up the One Piece at that time. It was his dream too. He was always so bright and happy and hopeful and he always tried his best yet Buggy was the one who actually betrayed Shanks, running away like a coward because of his inferiority complex when Shanks was doing everything in his power to lift Buggy up. But Buggy doesn't want to be lifted up. No matter how much Shanks tried Buggy always would rather drag Shanks down with him. Now Shanks is alone, he had to go through everything alone and clearly is not okay mentally because of it from his random bouts of melacholy and burden. He longs for some sort of companion but has nothing because Buggy left and he didn't give chase, sacrificing his want for a friend in order to let Buggy leave since Shanks felt that Buggy really must hate him and would be happier leaving, he sacrificed his dominant arm to save Luffy, severely weakening himself, gave what he had left of Roger to Luffy in order to cheer the boy up, another sacrifice. Then you'd think "oh he still has his daughter" and you'd be right, he took care of her when he found her in the chest, sacrificing his youth to take care of a baby on the ship, but he had to leave her. He made himself look like the bad guy to leave her, losing the last bit of compassion in his life.

He took it hard too, Oda drew in a little sbs thing im pretty sure of Shanks despairing over it. Then, canonically, Luffy is Shanks's last hope, for everything. Shanks doesn't have a companion, no little daughter to cheer him up, no lover because he likely doesn't want to bring them into what he has on his shoulders, nothing. Yet Buggy tried to kill that hope, multiple times. And only helped Shanks with Luffy when Shanks had to trick him into it (oh the horror what a devil that redhead/s). Shanks is just a broken Luffy, he was bright and sunny and had hopes but from likely learning about the prophecy or whatever that he was not going to be JoyBoy, so he gave up his dream for the world. All of this. All of these terrible things Shanks has gone through for everyone and everything and how Buggy tries to destroy every single one of it and somehow Shuggy shipper STILL manage to coddle Buggy and treat him like some cute tsundere that was wronged by Shanks and Shanks is the one that needs to chase after Buggy because evil Shanks betrayed him. That Shanks is the stupid longing ex husband that needs his wife back and that he messrd up when Buggy is a terrible friend at the VERY best and an abusive one at worst. That is why i "hate" Shuggy. I don't tag my hate post as Shuggy because i'm some sort of ragebaiter or slanderer trying to take away the happiness that is Shuggy its because I need Shuggy people to realize that the way they portray the ship is so utterly unfair to Shanks. The story goes on and on and you find out more and more about how Shanks sacrificed so much yet you're telling ME that i "don't even understand the story and characters" like the whole dynamic of Buggy isn't that he's horrible and its funny to see him get karma while somehow surviving and that Shanks's role is to be the sacrificial lamb to everything while having no one to take atleast some of the burden off.

Shuggy people and the way they portray it is toxic. Its not just they treat Shanks like the longing ex husband for the comedy, every artwork and fic and story i've seen its always Buggy needing to be apologized to and they're serious in that being the good and what should happen option and not, i don't know, the literal bad guy abusive person being the one to go "oh shit i need to change my ways and I have to apologize and help the friend I abandoned". No its always just adding more shit to Shanks's already about to break apart plate. It's maddening seeing it. It has so much potential to be an amazing ship that can explore the relationship between someone that used to be abusive learning that they arent the victim and atoning while finding love in eachother's comfort but instead its just victim blaming 101. Shanks could end up fucking dying horribly in One Piece while Buggy watches and goes "serves you right" and somehow Shuggy lovers would go "oh nonono its actually just him being a cute tsundere and look he feels bad deep inside so its all forgived and Shanks just dies ig idk anyway poor Buggy." There is so much wrong with the ship and how its treated that all that shit about shuggy haters trying to debunk it using some shitty half assed excuse like its "emotional incest" when theres so many other problems is if i looked at a history book and was like "Yeah the colonizers of the America were definitely wrong because their wigs were weird" like thats completely insignificant! Shuggy and the way its treated as if Buggy is the wronged one and always the loved and longed after while he has his poor hurt heart closed off from years of trauma like abandoning his friend and pillaging and killing innocent civilians while using their wealth to flaunt and pretend like he's big and strong.

Shuggy should not be a fix it via victim blaming Shanks and treating him like some dumb dog that loves Buggy so much it should be using the fact that Buggy has an inferiority complex and that he longs to be in the spotlight that he slowly learns that theres a reason why he's at the bottom. That is my issue. I'm not ignoring the story i am looking st the story with everything i possibly can because I even used to be kinda alrighy with Shuggy. It is literally now that we are learning more about Shanks and that im rereading One piece and remembering how horrible Buggy is that I'm realizing how horribly its treated. I mean look I started this off that I would try and summarize it but its so hard to summarize when theres so much wrong. I'm okay with shipping, i really am, but the ship is toxic, and the "fluffy" stuff is even toxic because its just making Shanks's misery worse. I need yall to realize that. This is not mindless hate.

hate that fuck ass clown. Sorry to all the Shuggy lovers but i keep trying to find shanks fanart and theyre all just shuggy shit and i HATE that fuck ass clown 😭. It sucks sm bc childhood friends is a ship trope i adore but i just hate buggy so much that its ruined for me. He's so insufferable as a person and was terrible to Shanks and it seems like all Shuggy lovers just kinda ignore that and act like SHANKS is the issue. Like "Shanks fumbled" or "He fucked up" and BUGGY has to be the one to "forgive" him. Buggy was never good! From the very start he was trying to steal the fruit then got mad when HE fucked up and accidentally ate it. Then held a grudge against Shanks because when he accidentally ate the devil fruit BUGGY dropped the map HE was hiding from the crew! He was a fucking cunt in the roger pirates then acts as if Shanks "betrayed" all of them just because he didnt want to go for the one piece. Like fuck you i hate him so much. Not only that! It gets worse! He was raised in a loving environment with Shanks as his friend and the Roger pirates who were all good people and despite ALL THAT grew up to be a horrible fucking person anyway! He pillaged villages, killed civilians, and is terrible to his very own crew. He was fucking horrible to Luffy, to Shanks, to the Roger Pirates, to people, to even fucking Crocodile and Mihawk. Whatever they do to him is honestly deserved and I agree with Mihawk A THOUSAND PERCENT when the swordsman is like "You had the potential to be amazing like Shanks but let your patheticness make you turn out like this" Yet despite ALLLLL this Shuggy lovers are always all about SHANKS being the one having to chase after Buggy and it just being like.. a good thing? Like its not even "He's chasing after Buggy and i know its wrong" its like they treat Shanks like some dumb dog that wronged poor innocent Buggy and Shanks is the reason why Buggy's life went to shit. I feel so bad for him when Shanks is the one who's actually been truly suffering all this time and clearly has a fuck ton on his shoulders from what we've been learning yet every shuggy art i see its Shanks the one begging even in angst art its always him apologizing him doing this and that and never Buggy once realizing that "Oh shit.. IM the one who fucked up and I gotta help my old friend and now boyfriend" Nono the dynamic is always Shanks its always his fault always his responsibility when hes already got a million fucking things on his plate and a dumbass ugly blue fucking shit eating cunt sucking micropenised chud incel pathetic useless disgusting greasy red nosed red faced black hearted rotten no good scum of the earth less than shit encrusted on a hoarder's toilet clown doesn't need to be one of them i need Buggy INCINERATED i HATE him. There is nothing but MALICE in my heart for that thing and the only reason i would POSSIBLY want him alive is to apologize to Shanks like what the redhead DESERVES.