Pro Team Green - Blog Posts

Questions I would like to ask Rhaenyra

As part of a thought experiment, I want to become an interviewer for the show!Rhaenyra Targaryen and ask her the most awkward questions, for which I would lose my journalist license (I don’t have such a license due to the fact that I’m annoying, suffer from ASD, and actually a lawyer, but If I had one, I would have lost it).

But here are some questions I would DEFINITELY ask, risking my hypothetical license:

1) Is it true that your second husband despises your half-siblings based on their mother's lineage? Did he find your mother, Aemma Arryn, equally disgusting? Do you agree with Daemon on this?

2) If Aegon were Aemma's son, would you have a problem naming him heir? If Baelon had survived but your father had married Alicent anyway, would you hate Aegon?

3) Hypothetically, if Aemma could give her opinion on the situation where you swore on her behalf that Daemon did not touch you, knowingly lying, what would she say? Would she be disappointed in you, since you are tarnishing her name and the sacrifice she made, undermining your own rights as an heir with your antics?

4) If you and Daemon believe that Alicent's children are not true Targaryens, can the same be said for your children with Harwin? They are not even 50%, but about 30% Valyrian, considering that you yourself are only 75% Valyrian. Has Daemon ever expressed disgust towards your older children?

5) At Aegon's second birthday party, were you really jealous of the baby, since he was the center of attention, not you? Is that why you went out of your way to ruin the party? Did you enjoy it?

6) Why the fuck didn't you find a father for your children with Laenor among the dragonseeds or the Velaryon bastards? Why Harwyn?

7) Did you really want to torture Aemond during the trial in Driftmark? Someone is trying to say that it was a trick, but we both know that a woman who fucks Daemon at the funeral of Daemon's wife doesn't know much about tricks.

8) Why didn't you ever visit your father after you moved to Dragonstone? Then it wouldn't have been such a shock to see him in his condition when you visited him to seek support against Vaemond and his petition. You weren't exiled (unlike in the book), so you could have seen him. Was it because you didn't want to or were there circumstances?

9) If Laenor hadn't gone along with the fake murder plan, what would you have done? Would you have let Daemon kill him? Didn't you feel sorry for Rhaenys and Corlys, who lost two children one after the other?

10) Do you realize that you have either four or five bastards? Your marriage to Daemon can't be considered official, considering that Laenor was still alive for some time. If he had returned to Westeros, your marriage to Daemon would have been annulled, and Aegon and Viserys would have been recognized as bastards.

This is just what came to mind right now, no deep thought. Besides, in five minutes Daemon would have appeared and chopped off my head for insolence.

Rhaenyra would never kill her own kin? Say it with your hand on the Bible and watch the Lord punish you for perjury

Team black stans is being almost hysterical, trying to convince us that Saint Rhaenyra would never dare to kill Alicent's children, that Otto and Alicent are the second and third coming of Satan, and they are must be blame for everything, from the birth of the Night King to the end of the Daenerys arc, and if it weren't for these two, Westeros would have already installed electricity, invented penicillin and learned to wash their asses more than once a month.

As proof, you are given quotes from a book that these fans have hardly read in its entirety, their own opinion, which, of course, is an indisputable fact and, sometimes, even "well, she would have killed some greens so what, why make such a fuss about it."

These people don't know how to work with a narrative, and it shows. Stories like Dance of the Dragons require you to dive into the personalities of both teams so you can understand the tragedy of the situation - a civil war between family members that will nearly destroy House Targaryen and Westeros.

Now imagine that you, Alyssa/Baelon Targaryen, are Alicent's fifth child. And this is a fanfic (show), not a book, so we're going to base this on the events of the adaptation.

Your father doesn't care about you, and you don't understand why. Did you do something wrong? Why does your father love your half-sister and her children, but not you and your siblings? Why doesn't he protect you from your nephews' bullying?

You don't get a dragon egg because they are few and far between, and Rhaenyra has another child who needs one more. You get the egg that comes later, or you ride a full-grown dragon.

Your half-sister Rhaenyra HATES you. She shows no shame in showing her disdain, barely tolerates your existence, and never punishes her children for bullying you. She won't talk to you, won't play with you, and even seems to hate your name.

You hear rumors that your nephews are bastards. You know that having bastards is wrong and against the Faith, and you don't understand why Rhaenyra is never punished for her bad deeds. You saw Aemond being scolded for standing up to our nephews, why is no one scolding Rhaenyra?

At Laena's funeral, your brother Aemond becomes a Vhagar rider, and Luke cuts out his eye for it. When the argument happens, you are afraid, scared, and crying, because father is angry at Aemond, and instead of comforting and protecting him, he demands something from him. Rhaenyra demands that Aemond be tortured, and no one protects your brother from her. Your father yells at Aegon because Aemond said that Aegon is the one who lied about your nephews being legitimate Velaryons. You don't understand how words can be as bad as your brother's injury. No one ever scolded or punished Rhaenyra for anything, so what if her children were called a bad word? Your father declares that there will be no punishment for your brother's injury, as if a lost eye is like a scratched knee and nothing bad happened. Your mother is angry at Rhaenyra and tries to hurt Luke, and suddenly she is the bad one and it's all her fault, and everyone has forgotten that Rhaenyra wanted to torture Aegon, who was hurt, as if it doesn't matter.

You are scared to get your dragon. What if Rhaena decides that this dragon was meant to be hers and you are a thief too, just like she accused Aemond? Will they cut out your eye too?

Laenor dies, and you hear that Rhaenyra has married Daemon, ignoring the mourning period. You remember this man - he laughed at Laena's funeral and frightened your mother with his presence. You have heard terrible things about him, and you are afraid to be near him - but thank the gods he does not come to the Red Keep, so you sleep peacefully. You are afraid to think about how exactly Laenor died, and whether Rhaenyra and Daemon were involved.

When your half-sister finally appears at the Red Keep, her first act is to claim Driftmark for her bastard son. When Vaemond Velaryon, your distant relative, calls her a whore and her children bastards, Daemon cuts off his head, and none of the Blacks look sad, even though he was a close relative to Rhaenys, Baela, and Rhaenyra's three eldest sons (presumably).

And that's just part of the shit that goes on in your life. If it were possible, you'd demand a refund.

If someone told you that Rhaenyra wouldn't kill you for the sake of her peaceful reign, would you believe them?

PS. not a native speaker and it shows, so what?

TB stans: the greens ones feel sorry for Jaehaerys for his cruel death, but they don’t feel sorry for Lucerys, who is exactly the same child!!!

Excuse me, but why is Lucerys a child? Do you need to be reminded that at the age of 15, Robb Stark led an army and went to the South to avenge the death of his father and rescue his sisters from captivity?

Remind you that Arya was exposed to the cruelty of the world at a young age when she was captured at Harrenhal and forced to watch the cruel deeds of Tywin Lannister?

Do you finally need to remember Shireen, whom her own father took on a hike in the dead of winter? She never once complained about her age.

Finally, think of Tommen, who also had to face the fanatics of the High Sparrow at a young age. I’m already silent about Bran and Rickon - they were in exile from a young age and wandered through foreign lands in search of help, and Bran generally went beyond the Wall and lived in the wilderness.

And after that TB stans call Lucerys a CHILD? what kind of child is he if he was sent as an ambassador on a responsible mission to gain the support of a great House for his mother? Would a child be sent on such a dangerous journey for dangerous negotiations? Or are you saying that Rhaenyra is so stupid that she didn't find anyone better than a child to be an ambassador? shut your mouths and be silent. stop comparing the deaths of a truly INNOCENT CHILD and a person who was a FIGURE in the war that started.

…And guilty of conspiracy to commit murder … and a sexual predator …and incompetent …and married to a serial rapist, pedophile, murderer (thrice over by now) …and sheltering a terrorist.

it's always both sides are bad :( when one of them is a rapist incompetent usurper and the other is... a woman

Sorry my friend, but your mixing up roles, protections and purpose here. Lucerys was a messenger who should have been and was protected by guest right in neutral territory. Aemond did not attack him in Borros‘ hall, as Borros guaranteed for his safety and attacking him wouöd have been an affront to Lord Borros. He then proceeded to leave that protected space.

And at that point it is important to remember what his mission was. The group of people that you must not attack and I assume you are thinking of are parlamentarians. But they come in to main flavours

1. To negotiate an end to hostilies, either by offering a surrender of their own side or terms and conditions for a surrender by the opposition.

2. For humanitarian purposes, like exchanging prisoners, evacuating non-combattants, evacuating the wounded, in ancient times asking for permission to recover the dead after a defeat.

These are communications that need to take place even (or especially) during war time to avoid the war turning into a completely senseless slaughter of everyone that cannot end until one side is entirely killed off. And most crucially they do not harm any side but instead benefit both.

But Lucerys fits into neither category. He was not there to negotiate a surrender, as here had not been any hostilities between Rhaenyra and the Baratheons by that point and the humanitarian option doesn‘t make sense either. So even if we _weren‘t_ explicitly told we could very much infer what his purpose was: he was there to secure/raise an army for his mother. To make sure Borros Baratheon fulfilled the oaths his father had sworn to Rhaenyra. That means he was there in a military capacity, (as was Aemond btw.) and was a valid military target according to the rules of war. That is not to say he wasn‘t „innocent“ war is not just but he was certainly a valid target.

To illustrate that point further. It is a warcrime to shoot a soldier who leaves throws down his weapons, raises his hands above his head, waves a white hankerchief in the absence of an actual white flag and shouts „I surrender“ (actually that declaration is enough) even if he killed dozens or even hundreds of your friends, comrades or even family members, you are not allowed to kill him at that point. But a truck carrying ammunition to the battlefield you are allowed to destroy and kill the driver of, even if said driver is a seventeen year old fresh out of college, who was forced into service and never hurt a single living thing.

If you want to make the point that war had not broken out, I would argue that by that point blood had already been drawn by Rhaenys at the Drageon pit and even if the outbreak of further hostilities could still have been averted, his Graces Council was justified in operating in warlike conditions.

If you want a real world example of a somewhat similar situation in our world I encourage you to check out the Trent Affair during the American Civil War where to Confederate Diplomats where taken prisoner by the Union Navy vessel USS San Jacinto. It nearly ended in war between the US and Great Britain and was only averted by the release of the Envoys. This site here provides actual insight into british grievances. Note the conspicuous absence of „a Diplomat was taken prisoner“ as a complaint. The main issue is, that they were captured aboard a british vessel and british neutrality was therefor not sufficiently respected.

U.S. Naval Institute

The Trent Affair and its Implications

How the U.S. Navy seizure of a vessel carrying Confederate emissaries to Britain caused an international stir.

Regardless of our difference in opinion regarding the works of G.R.R.Martin and their HBO Adaptations, I hope you have a most pleasant day or night.

Best wishes.

Calling an envoy, a soldier and a threat, is quite literally the dumbest thing you can say. They are basically postmen with diplomatic immunity. It really sums up the extent of intelligence I have come to expect from team green fans. Lucerys was innocent and he will keep being it, murdering him was a war crime + king slaying being a taboo.

You can take your stupid posts somewhere else. Him saying "I will not fight you" isn't a joke, he is representative of borros's enemy and his only Job is to take a letter and bring back an answer, if he joins in fighting he starts a war.....like aemond did.

I might be having a brainfart here, but should Luke have been protected in the first place?

Parlamentarians, bearing some sort of white flag are protected but they tend to come in two flavours

1. to negotiate an immediate end to hostilities (usually involving the surrender of either party)

2. to negotiate for humanitarian measures (e.g. To evacuate the wounded or recover the dead)

But Luke‘s mission wasn‘t that. He left with the clear intention to return with an army for his mother to use. Either as additional bargaining weight or in war. He served the exact same strategic purpose as the ravens the Lannister host sent to Harrenhal durig the Battle by the Lakeshore, all of which were shot down by the Riverlanders without it being treated as anything particularly despicable.

Luke was and should have been protected by Guestright and the status of Storms End as neutral territory. But when he left, Aemond should have been well within his rights to engage him as an enemy combattant, because realistically that‘s what he was.

I am not saying Aemond should‘ve killed the little guy, but he would have been well within his rights to take him prisoner.

I might be completely wrong about this, but this thought just occured to me.

HotD Episode 10 reaction under the cut.

(These aren’t my initial ones since I forgot to do my initial comments, but yeah. I’ve also added the “boundless watches HotD” tag. I will be using that for season 2 block that and “boundless watches” if you don’t want my future opinions or to be spoiled!)

Rhaenyra you did nothing to earn it.

You are not perfect and your dad did diddly squat to prepare you.

Rhaenys… baby… you did start this war. What about all those people you killed?

Daemon did not look like he liked being called Prince

And Jace being a bad brother, knocking Luke down and being forceful. Brother of the year. Even Aegon didn’t push Aemond down. Actually the only time we saw Aegon and Aemond actively fight was when Aegon was trying to leave King’s Landing.

Really do think they are going to play up hot headed Jace the coming season.

I actually wouldn’t be surprised if they had him man handle Baela in season 2 in his anger and frustration, mimicking his grandfather and Daemon. Like I don’t mean he’ll be as physical as Viserys or Daemon, I just mean he would act roughly.

And man… Rhaenyra refusing feminine help while delivering her baby… causing the death of her daughter. Carrying on the cycle her father started. Quite literally ripping the baby from her body and then mourning the child because she would not accept help. Her maids (or whatever they are meant to signify) were begging to help.

Also, people complaining about the Greens making a “show” of Jaehaerys’ death as though the Blacks did not do the same for baby Visenya’s. Gathering all who were there to the funeral and then having Rhaenyra crowned at her own child’s funeral. Like??? Not the time

Also, the Black Kingsguard twin bowing and doing his vow looking up at Daemon rather than at Rhaenyra’s feet.

Rhaenys, you chose a side as soon as you fled. Bend the freaking knee

Is Rhaenyra supposed to be queen of the Rhoynar yet? Isn’t that Dorne?

Lady, why isn’t your heir your cupbearer?? Or at least your husband’s betrothed? The supposed next queen?

Lady, House Baratheon has wanted someone of their blood on the throne for ages and there is no Baratheon blood in your boys, Rhaenyra. Stop pretending they do because that is what actively put Luke in danger later.

RHAENYRA YOU JUST HAD A TRAUMATIC MISCARRIAGE!!!!! WHY ARE YOU ON FREAKING DRAGONBACK?!?!?!? You were in so much pain with Joffrey, and could barely walk?!?!?!?

All of Rhaenyra’s kids are given good options and positions if they had accepted Aegon’s terms.

What would the Green kids have gotten had Rhaenyra been made queen? What positions? What holdings?

Rhaenyra… sweetie… why do you think Otto owes you any loyalty? You made him lose his job when you lied to your father, who knew full well you lied.

And that stupid page was pointless.

Why not have Alicent write a letter??? Or go herself????

Also??? Why didn’t Rhaenyra offer any terms in return for the Greens to contemplate?

Rhaenys, why are you still there? Like you are doing nothing

Why is Rhaenyra shocked that Daemon doesn’t know? Daemon was only informally the heir? Viserys wouldn’t have shared the dream with Daemon because he was actively trying for a son.

And the stupid abuse plot that will no doubt be used to make it so Rhaenyra does not have to be held accountable for her actions. “Oh, she’s being abused so she can’t publically condemn Daemon’s actions”

It actually would have made more sense if Alicent had written a letter saying Viserys had shared his dreams with Alicent and said that Aegon must carry on his dream. That would have made more sense for why Rhaenyra was being hesitant because she might think that Viserys shared Aegon’s dream with Alicent as well as the SoIaF, and with Daemon not knowing, would have given Rhaenyra pause on staking her claim to the throne. Then, her going to war after Luke, would have made it more of her active choice against what she believes her father would have wanted. It would have been a good dilemma or her end.

Corlys… you have been passed out, how did you know Viserys died but not that your brother died?

Corlys, you should now be thinking Daemon is the reason your daughter is dead, your son was murdered, as was your brother. Like???

And Corlys? Even if you wanted to stay neutral, Daemon sure as heck would not allow you to.

Jace, Luke, and Joffrey were given the chance of being heir to both Driftmark and Dragonstone. They wouldn’t be left with nothing, nor would they seemingly be placed in any danger. I would argue Aegon the Younger and Viserys would be the one with some danger as they would have been at the Red Keep. “Aegon” offered that. They would have lived, your grandchildren would have been fine.

Yeah. Where is Daemon?

They swore oaths when it was either you or Daemon. Your father should have had them all rewear to you after his son was born and survived.

Love that the only people not allowed to have revenge is House Velaryon, the racially Black house.

AND AGAIN, RHAENYS ALREADY PARTICIPATED IN AN ACT OF AGGRESSION!

I love how they are only focusing on House Hightower, as though the entire Reach is not really freaking important too.

Why does Baela not go with Luke? She has actual Baratheon blood? Why does Baela not go at all?

Jace is like “we have dragons” but only Jace and Luke are sent? What about Baela?!? She can apparently ride and fight on dragonback next season!

Rhaenyra? Why are you having them swear to the Seven? Those oaths mean nothing since they don’t seem to hold to that Faith! And besides! Jace is going North! Where they hold to the Old Gods anyway!

Also, why the heck does Rhaenys not go????????? She’s more closely related to the Baratheons even if Luke was related to them!

“He’ll be honored to host the Prince of the realm” when have you ever spent any time playing up the Baratheon connection? Borros’ daughters could have served as companions to Baela and Rhaena! Borros’ heir would have been a girl seemingly and you could have offered to foster her as a female heir yourself Rhaenyra.

I feel like it would have made more sense for Daemon to have taken Rhaena to see if she could claim a dragon rather than him stupidly singing for a reason we are just not given in the show.

Luke, why would you not leave as soon as you saw Vhagar?????

Like, you KNOW Aemond has a beef with you and the only reason there was no retaliation is because someone else was there to stick up for you

Also… you just had a letter. You could have had it passed on and then left!

Also… the fact that Rhaenyra and Rhaenys are seemingly unaware that Borros can’t read is astounding.

“I will not fight you.” If I were Aemond, I would have said “why, because you do not have three to help you fight me?”

Luke hasn’t even flown in battle and I assume he hasn’t flown in a storm either. Like? Why not request time to stay and talk things out? Hear more of a possible offer? Hold him hostage for the king you now apparently serve? That would have been the smart thing to do

Also, Luke drew his sword, so does that not mean he’s no longer bound to be protected as a messenger?

While Arrax did so without Luke’s command, once more, it is the Blacks that incite the first physical act of violence. Rhaena or Baela punching Aemond first. Jace punching Aemond first when he didn’t like what Aemond was saying. Rhaenys escaping on dragonback instead of just fleeing and killing multiple people in the process. Arrax breathing fire on Vhagar.

And love (*sarcastic*) how the Greens are made to feel bad when they retaliate to aggression they did not necessarily start (although Aemond is fully at fault for being the one to set out after Luke and Arrax)

Great final shot of Rhaenyra? But I honestly don’t feel like it was a strong end to the season.

Bonus for next season:

I hate the whole “eye for an eye; a son for a son” thing because there was never an eye for an eye.

I just feel bad for the Green Kids. Viserys showed he cared far more about Rhaenyra than he does them. Aemond literally gets his Eye slashed and Viserys is more concerned with the rumors of the Strong boys lineage (rumors that are largely as result Rhaenyra’s actions). And he’s just supposed to get over it according to Team Black. Aegon clearly has self worth problems, likely in part to Viserys’ blatant favoritism. And poor Helaena just wants it all over with. And Team Black wants them to just…ignore it all and blindly follow Rhaenyra.

Sorry for the rant, but some of the attitudes from the Fandom give me the creeps.

Honestly, it feels like the problem is that a lot of the HOTD fandom can only see things through Rhaenyra’s POV, and as a result everyone else’s POV or opinions are considered as an afterthought at best.

The Greens are just supposed to accept and love her. Criston is just supposed to accept being her loyal dog and let her use him as she pleases. The Lords of the realm are just supposed to ignore her obvious flaws and shortcomings, it goes on and on. Everyone’s supposed to take her crap with a smile because she’s such a girlboss qween.

THIS.

her stans just can't acknowledge the fact that rhaenyra has done shitty things & people that she hurt has the right to hate her. criston is a great example. rhaenyra coerced him & treated him horribly after. he was genuinely hurt by her. his anger does not justify him killing another man, but he has the right to hate rhaenyra for what she did it him. but for some reason, he's branded as this women-hating incel who's just bitter. completely ignoring the fact that criston was very loyal to rhaenyra and her claim until ep 4, and that hating rhaenyra doesn't equal to hating all women.

not supporting rhaenyra = evil characters that deserves to be punished by the narrative -[ especially if they're women. ]

like alicent has a lot of reason for wanting her son on the throne, but rhaenyra stans just make it all about alicent's jealousy and hatred towards rhaenyra - completely ignoring that the main reason that alicent wants aegon on the throne is to protect her children's lives.