This Is Literally How I View The Wrightworth Relationship Progression Through The Trilogy.

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#i feel like i'm gonna get thrown tomatoes for this but#he's terrible for that but honestly i get it #it's the courtroom. not a therapy session #on my replay #i got to that part yesterday and i thought it would make me mad but as someone who's similar to adrian... #being slapped with reality like that works in waking you up sometimes #like yes it deeply hurts when things like that get unearthed but by ignoring it and refusing to talk about it........ it's more damaging yk #but ofc it's different for everybody #idk man.... bc considering he's also suicidal.... well. Well. it has certain implications #and imo he didn't mean it......he just wanted the truth out of her rather than telling it himself i guess #not defending him tho. irl that's unredeemable in my eyes lol <-- previous tags

No, no, you're right! And that's pretty much what I was trying to say. Ruthlessness is not inherently a good or bad trait. What Miles did was hurtful... but it was necessary in the end. And I truly love this part of his character, how he's so adamant about dragging the truth out and dismantling people's delusions. I wish this side of him was acknowledged more in the fandom.

(tw: mention of suicide) Did we, as a fandom, just collectively forget how ruthless Miles Edgeworth can be sometimes? And I’m not just talking about his demon prosecutor era, I mean also after his redemption arc. Because I was just playing through Farewell My Turnabout and watching him reveal Adrian Andrews attempted suicide in court after she begged both him and Phoenix not to… I was sitting there with my mouth open thinking: damn Edgeworth, was that really necessary??

And you know what, I love it. I love how he was ruthless in getting a guilty verdict in the past, and now he uses that ruthlessness to find the truth. Because I'm not just here for the traumatized, socially awkward, emotionally constipated, caring Edgeworth. I'm also here for the ruthless, intimidating, competent, morally grey Edgeworth. I'm not here for a watered-down version of Edgeworth. He wouldn't be my favorite character if he didn't have this nuance.

(Edited to adjust my argument).

I think RTFA confirming that Miles Edgeworth didn't intentionally forge evidence aligns with his established character in the first four cases. It does take away some audience interpretation but personally I'm fine with that.

First of all I don't think the rest of AA1 ever confirmed it one way or the other. There are a few instances where Phoenix thinks of Edgeworth as an evidence forger but it's not like Phoenix would know for sure either. (Do correct me, with specific lines please, if I'm wrong though).

But more importantly, if you only look at the first four cases of AA1 Edgeworth being an evidence forger doesn't make sense with his character. Why would a prosecutor forge evidence? Not including reasons like being blackmailed. 1) If they don't care (enough) about the truth (prioritizing things like success over it), or 2) if they truly believe the defendant is guilty and are desperate for a conviction (aka the reason Adrian Andrews forges evidence in 2-4).

Does Edgeworth care about the truth, before the start of his redemption arc at the end of 1-3?

Yes... kind of. I don't think he prioritizes the truth or consciously cares about it. As the "Demon Prosecutor", Edgeworth cares about justice, and achieving it through punishment. However, convicting the wrong person would not be justice to him. Which is what makes Edgeworth change sides to convict the right person in 1-3. So in that sense, he does care about the truth.

You could argue that Edgeworth had already lost once to Phoenix and thought "screw this, my perfect record is already gone, another loss wouldn't change that fact". But compare him to two characters who are actually obsessed with their perfect records. Manfred, a perfectionist control-freak, getting a penalty (not even losing!) unraveled him so much that he killed Gregory in the heat of the moment. Franziska after losing in 2-2 declares that: "That spirit channeling trial was a sham! I refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy! It did not count!" She doesn't even want to admit that she lost. Edgeworth, on the other hand, doesn't act like someone who truly prioritizes his win record over the truth.

Because Edgeworth didn't just let himself lose in 1-3, he made himself lose. He made Vasquez testify again. She would have gotten away if Edgeworth didn't say anything. And after the trial he tells the judge "Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural… not a miracle."

Okay but if Edgeworth does care about the truth (to some extent), and believed that every defendant being guilty was the truth, he could have easily gone down the path of forging evidence to ensure the verdict reflected what he believed to be true. That leads me to my next question:

2. Does Edgeworth truly believe that every defendant he prosecutes is guilty?

Actually no. He says this in Turnabout Sisters: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

Yeah I think that line speaks for itself.

Miles Edgeworth can't bring himself to consciously care about or prioritize the truth, but the moment it's presented in front of him he also can't bring himself to ignore it. He doesn't think it would be just to knowingly convict an innocent person, but he's so disillusioned and distrusting of people that he's lost faith in finding the truth.

So, he commits himself to getting guilty verdicts because he believes that's the best shot he has at enacting justice, even if he accidentally convicts innocent people from time to time.

And to me that aligns with his reaction to finding out he unknowingly used forged evidence in 1-5. Edgeworth was so disillusioned with finding the truth that he has accepted that some collateral damage would inevitably happen as a result of his mindset. However, because he still can't let go of his dedication to the truth, he wouldn't want to lie or rewrite the facts to achieve his verdicts.

Is it just me or is this piece of advice from Mia, "for a lawyer, the worst of times are when you have to force your biggest smiles", really sad?

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing inherently sad about it. I get that it's about not giving up, pushing through impossible odds and rock bottom for your client. Because for most people, being a lawyer is a just a profession.

But for someone like Phoenix? Someone who hides their pain behind saving others, who never talks about their trauma, who (subconsciously or not) considers being a lawyer not just a job but their entire identity...? All of a sudden, Mia's advice isn't just about the courtroom anymore, because for Phoenix being a lawyer was always about being good enough and able to save people. To Phoenix, Mia's advice is about pretending you're fine, not letting anyone see how you truly feel or else you can't save anyone.

Something I'm fond of saying is "The villain drives the plot but the hero sets the tone." Something that's very important about this is that the resolution to the conflicts presented need to match the hero's tone. If your story doesn't believe problems can be solved the way the hero wants to solve them... why is this the hero?

If you want your problems to be solved with brutal catharsis, then your hero should be someone who believes in brutal catharsis.

If you want your problems to be solved with forgiveness and reconciliation, then your hero should be someone who believes in forgiveness and reconciliation.

They don't have to begin there. This can be something they come around to over the course of the story, as they grow and change per their character arc. But by the time of their ultimate encounter with the villain, their values should be the values that drive the story forward.

There's this thing in D&D that some DMs do. Where, when you roll enough damage to deplete the monster's hit points, they'll turn to you and say, "That's a kill. Describe for the group how you take the monster down." And you're allowed to come up with some cool maneuver or something that your character did in order to deliver the finishing blow.

The hero's ultimate triumph over the villain is a lot like this. More than any other part of the story, this moment is their apotheosis. It should be a celebration of everything they are and everything they stand for.

You have defeated the villain; Now describe for the group what form that victory takes.

This!! I do get why slow burn wrightworth is so popular and I personally prefer them getting together right after the events of AA3 (Miles being there for Phoenix during disbarment is a NEED okay?), but I totally get this. Sometimes two less than healthy people getting together will end in ruin but what about hope? What about the fact that you don’t need to be fully healed to be loved? What about communication and trust and working together and finding the truth? They clash but also fit perfectly in court, so why not in their personal lives too?

And gosh, Farewell My Turnabout would hit so much harder if they were together in the trilogy (and by that, OP, I assume you mean all three games). “We aren’t some sort of heroes. We’re only human, you and I”— Love does not “save someone”, it does not fix everything but that doesn’t mean you should stop fighting.

Hell, all of Justice for All would hit so much harder. Now Franziska has more reason to believe Phoenix “killed” Miles. Now Franziska’s deep hurt disguised as a desire for vengeance has a whole new layer of pain: your foolish love killed my little brother, so I cannot show that I love him. I must fight him and I must win and then he will never leave me behind again.

And when Phoenix says “I decided that the Miles Edgeworth I knew had died… At least, that’s what I told myself”, it would hurt even more because the Edgeworth he knew wouldn’t have abandoned him, and the Edgeworth he knew would have been saved by his love.

(Side note, everything I said about JFA I believe to be true for canon as well. It would just be amplified and more heartbreaking if narumitsu were together during the original trilogy)

Also it is so hard to find fanfics with this concept but this is the closest I’ve found, enjoy! (We need more fanfics with this premise please)

I Turn To You (For My Comfort) Phoenix and Miles get together post Turnabout Goodbyes

if i woke up (next to you) Phoenix and Miles get together post Farewell My Turnabout

Turnabout Groceries and it’s sequel Home for (Almost) Christmas (which is not finished currently) AU where Phoenix and Miles adopt Trudy and Kay respectively before the events of the first game and narumitsu get together post Turnabout Samurai

Wow this is such a long reblog but OP you truly inspired me.

I can certainly see why people are obsessed about the slow burn reading of narumitsu, the one where they wait for 7, 9 or even more years before they ever do anything romantic together, but. Their relationship in the trilogy era could be so, so interesting and complicated and yet so. Warm and full of comfort.

Just... Two traumatized and mentally ill men trying their best to figure out this relationship thing. Phoenix remembering what it's like to have a romantic partner again, after being betrayed, after being left behind, and now confronting his abandonment issues. Edgeworth learning how to love somebody, and now trying to express it, perhaps searching for his own ways of doing so.

Yes, they encounter a number of problems. Edgeworth gets this nagging feeling at times that he's too broken for a romantic relationship, that he's a parasite leaching on another person's care and affection, thus at times he acts aloof and withdrawn. Phoenix gets paranoid that he'll end up completely alone again very soon, whenever he notices Edgeworth getting so cold all of a sudden. Edgeworth genuinely thinks at the worst moments that the right thing to do is to just break up right now so he doesn't waste any more of Phoenix' time. Phoenix is anxious that one day Edgeworth can just disappear on him again without saying a word. Edgeworth feels forever indebted for everything Phoenix did to help him, and now when he notices his partner struggling he wants to do the same for him, but he doesn't even know why Phoenix is troubled, and even less about how to help him. Phoenix is less than honest sometimes on how he feels because he really thinks that his problems are nothing compared to Edgeworth's, but he can't help but feel bitter nevertheless that his partner isn't that helping. And then feels like a petty person for that bitterness and knows that he can't be actually cross at Edgeworth for not being a mind-reader. If truth be told, they both think that the other "has it worse", so they both make the same mistake of not opening up fully until something not very good occurs.

"But why didn't you tell me anything??" They both ask each other. Often. But the important thing is, is that they get to ask that eventually. Say sorry to each other. And then move on knowing each other a little bit better, and maybe not repeating the same mistake in the future. At least, the chances are lower now.

Would it be unhealthy for them to be together in that era? Well, depends on your definition of the word 'unhealthy', but I'm a firm believer that it's better to figure out things together, with your loved one, and that's what they are doing. Healing goes much smoother when you have mutual support. And sometimes hurt people can understand and help other hurt people better than any 'healthy' person can. You are in pain, and I'm also in pain, so I understand how you feel and want to help you get through this. It's all about trust and empathy. And isn't it the core of narumitsu and their relationship?

So basically, while it takes a lot of work for them to be together at this point, it is worthwhile. And that is why I prefer the interpretation that they have something going on already in the trilogy. I really want them to struggle, but make it work. I want their relationship to begin not in the best possible moment, perhaps, but to grow more comfortable and mature with years regardless. It is not ideal and far from the perfection, and that is exactly why it's so real and beautiful.

I’ve been getting into Ace Attorney! Scene from Farewell My Turnabout (no spoilers tho pls, I haven’t finished the case yet)

You literally pulled the thoughts out of my head!! I agree with everything you said about Edgeworth in 1-4. I just didn’t include it in my post because then we’d be here all day.

I think RTFA confirming that Miles Edgeworth didn't intentionally forge evidence does align with his established character in the first four cases and isn't a retcon. It does take away some audience interpretation but personally I'm fine with that.

First of all I don't think the rest of AA1 ever confirmed it one way or the other. There are a few instances where Phoenix thinks of Edgeworth as an evidence forger but it's not like Phoenix would know for sure either. (Do correct me, with specific lines please, if I'm wrong though).

But more importantly, if you only look at the first four cases of AA1 Edgeworth being an evidence forger doesn't make sense with his character. Why would a prosecutor forge evidence? Not including reasons like being blackmailed. 1) If they don't care (enough) about the truth (prioritizing things like success over it), or 2) if they truly believe the defendant is guilty and are desperate for a conviction (aka the reason Adrian Andrews forges evidence in 2-4).

Does Edgeworth care about the truth, before coming back in 2-4?

Yes, I'd say so. One thing that still kind of surprises me is just how quickly Edgeworth changes sides and begins to fight for the truth. It happens at the end of 1-3.

You could argue that Edgeworth had already lost once to Phoenix and thought "screw this, my perfect record is already gone, another loss wouldn't change that fact". But compare him to two characters who are actually obsessed with their perfect records. Manfred, a perfectionist control-freak, getting a penalty (not even losing!) unraveled him so much that he killed Gregory in the heat of the moment. Franziska after losing in 2-2 declares that: "That spirit channeling trial was a sham! I refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy! It did not count!" She doesn't even want to admit that she lost. Edgeworth, on the other hand, doesn't act like someone who truly prioritizes his win record over the truth.

Because Edgeworth didn't just let himself lose in 1-3, he made himself lose. He made Vasquez testify again. She would have gotten away if Edgeworth didn't say anything. And after the trial he tells the judge "Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural… not a miracle."

Okay but if Edgeworth does care about the truth, and believed that every defendant being guilty was the truth, he could have easily gone down the path of forging evidence to ensure the verdict reflected what he believed to be true. That leads me to my next question:

2. Does Edgeworth truly believe that every defendant he prosecutes is guilty?

Actually no. He says this in Turnabout Sisters: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

Yeah I think that line speaks for itself.

Miles Edgeworth's duality pre-redemption is this: he cares about the truth, but he's lost faith in finding it. So he commits himself to getting guilty verdicts because he believes that's the best shot he has at enacting justice, even if he accidentally convicts innocent people from time to time.

And to me that aligns with his reaction to finding out he unknowingly used forged evidence in 1-5. Edgeworth was so disillusioned with finding the truth that he has accepted that some collateral damage would inevitably happen as a result of his mindset. However, because he still can't let go of his dedication to the truth, he wouldn't want to lie or rewrite the facts to achieve his verdicts.

I'm sorry but as much as I love and ship narumitsu, Miles's "unnecessary feelings" line is primarily about him questioning his morals and methods as a prosecutor. Miles who was believed he was doing good and enacting justice by getting guilty verdicts for all defendants, who lost faith in finding the truth because he couldn't trust anyone anymore. He was shown that the truth is not so unobtainable by Phoenix, and he began to question if he was truly doing the right thing all along. That's why I love the "unnecessary feelings" line so much; it marks the start of Miles's redemption arc.

Of course you can headcanon the "unnecessary feelings" line to have romantic implications. But Klavier gets my vote in this case.