Team Green As Pigeons Just Because…

Don’t try defending this

…And guilty of conspiracy to commit murder … and a sexual predator …and incompetent …and married to a serial rapist, pedophile, murderer (thrice over by now) …and sheltering a terrorist.

it's always both sides are bad :( when one of them is a rapist incompetent usurper and the other is... a woman

I might be having a brainfart here, but should Luke have been protected in the first place?

Parlamentarians, bearing some sort of white flag are protected but they tend to come in two flavours

1. to negotiate an immediate end to hostilities (usually involving the surrender of either party)

2. to negotiate for humanitarian measures (e.g. To evacuate the wounded or recover the dead)

But Luke‘s mission wasn‘t that. He left with the clear intention to return with an army for his mother to use. Either as additional bargaining weight or in war. He served the exact same strategic purpose as the ravens the Lannister host sent to Harrenhal durig the Battle by the Lakeshore, all of which were shot down by the Riverlanders without it being treated as anything particularly despicable.

Luke was and should have been protected by Guestright and the status of Storms End as neutral territory. But when he left, Aemond should have been well within his rights to engage him as an enemy combattant, because realistically that‘s what he was.

I am not saying Aemond should‘ve killed the little guy, but he would have been well within his rights to take him prisoner.

I might be completely wrong about this, but this thought just occured to me.

HotD Episode 10 reaction under the cut.

(These aren’t my initial ones since I forgot to do my initial comments, but yeah. I’ve also added the “boundless watches HotD” tag. I will be using that for season 2 block that and “boundless watches” if you don’t want my future opinions or to be spoiled!)

Rhaenyra you did nothing to earn it.

You are not perfect and your dad did diddly squat to prepare you.

Rhaenys… baby… you did start this war. What about all those people you killed?

Daemon did not look like he liked being called Prince

And Jace being a bad brother, knocking Luke down and being forceful. Brother of the year. Even Aegon didn’t push Aemond down. Actually the only time we saw Aegon and Aemond actively fight was when Aegon was trying to leave King’s Landing.

Really do think they are going to play up hot headed Jace the coming season.

I actually wouldn’t be surprised if they had him man handle Baela in season 2 in his anger and frustration, mimicking his grandfather and Daemon. Like I don’t mean he’ll be as physical as Viserys or Daemon, I just mean he would act roughly.

And man… Rhaenyra refusing feminine help while delivering her baby… causing the death of her daughter. Carrying on the cycle her father started. Quite literally ripping the baby from her body and then mourning the child because she would not accept help. Her maids (or whatever they are meant to signify) were begging to help.

Also, people complaining about the Greens making a “show” of Jaehaerys’ death as though the Blacks did not do the same for baby Visenya’s. Gathering all who were there to the funeral and then having Rhaenyra crowned at her own child’s funeral. Like??? Not the time

Also, the Black Kingsguard twin bowing and doing his vow looking up at Daemon rather than at Rhaenyra’s feet.

Rhaenys, you chose a side as soon as you fled. Bend the freaking knee

Is Rhaenyra supposed to be queen of the Rhoynar yet? Isn’t that Dorne?

Lady, why isn’t your heir your cupbearer?? Or at least your husband’s betrothed? The supposed next queen?

Lady, House Baratheon has wanted someone of their blood on the throne for ages and there is no Baratheon blood in your boys, Rhaenyra. Stop pretending they do because that is what actively put Luke in danger later.

RHAENYRA YOU JUST HAD A TRAUMATIC MISCARRIAGE!!!!! WHY ARE YOU ON FREAKING DRAGONBACK?!?!?!? You were in so much pain with Joffrey, and could barely walk?!?!?!?

All of Rhaenyra’s kids are given good options and positions if they had accepted Aegon’s terms.

What would the Green kids have gotten had Rhaenyra been made queen? What positions? What holdings?

Rhaenyra… sweetie… why do you think Otto owes you any loyalty? You made him lose his job when you lied to your father, who knew full well you lied.

And that stupid page was pointless.

Why not have Alicent write a letter??? Or go herself????

Also??? Why didn’t Rhaenyra offer any terms in return for the Greens to contemplate?

Rhaenys, why are you still there? Like you are doing nothing

Why is Rhaenyra shocked that Daemon doesn’t know? Daemon was only informally the heir? Viserys wouldn’t have shared the dream with Daemon because he was actively trying for a son.

And the stupid abuse plot that will no doubt be used to make it so Rhaenyra does not have to be held accountable for her actions. “Oh, she’s being abused so she can’t publically condemn Daemon’s actions”

It actually would have made more sense if Alicent had written a letter saying Viserys had shared his dreams with Alicent and said that Aegon must carry on his dream. That would have made more sense for why Rhaenyra was being hesitant because she might think that Viserys shared Aegon’s dream with Alicent as well as the SoIaF, and with Daemon not knowing, would have given Rhaenyra pause on staking her claim to the throne. Then, her going to war after Luke, would have made it more of her active choice against what she believes her father would have wanted. It would have been a good dilemma or her end.

Corlys… you have been passed out, how did you know Viserys died but not that your brother died?

Corlys, you should now be thinking Daemon is the reason your daughter is dead, your son was murdered, as was your brother. Like???

And Corlys? Even if you wanted to stay neutral, Daemon sure as heck would not allow you to.

Jace, Luke, and Joffrey were given the chance of being heir to both Driftmark and Dragonstone. They wouldn’t be left with nothing, nor would they seemingly be placed in any danger. I would argue Aegon the Younger and Viserys would be the one with some danger as they would have been at the Red Keep. “Aegon” offered that. They would have lived, your grandchildren would have been fine.

Yeah. Where is Daemon?

They swore oaths when it was either you or Daemon. Your father should have had them all rewear to you after his son was born and survived.

Love that the only people not allowed to have revenge is House Velaryon, the racially Black house.

AND AGAIN, RHAENYS ALREADY PARTICIPATED IN AN ACT OF AGGRESSION!

I love how they are only focusing on House Hightower, as though the entire Reach is not really freaking important too.

Why does Baela not go with Luke? She has actual Baratheon blood? Why does Baela not go at all?

Jace is like “we have dragons” but only Jace and Luke are sent? What about Baela?!? She can apparently ride and fight on dragonback next season!

Rhaenyra? Why are you having them swear to the Seven? Those oaths mean nothing since they don’t seem to hold to that Faith! And besides! Jace is going North! Where they hold to the Old Gods anyway!

Also, why the heck does Rhaenys not go????????? She’s more closely related to the Baratheons even if Luke was related to them!

“He’ll be honored to host the Prince of the realm” when have you ever spent any time playing up the Baratheon connection? Borros’ daughters could have served as companions to Baela and Rhaena! Borros’ heir would have been a girl seemingly and you could have offered to foster her as a female heir yourself Rhaenyra.

I feel like it would have made more sense for Daemon to have taken Rhaena to see if she could claim a dragon rather than him stupidly singing for a reason we are just not given in the show.

Luke, why would you not leave as soon as you saw Vhagar?????

Like, you KNOW Aemond has a beef with you and the only reason there was no retaliation is because someone else was there to stick up for you

Also… you just had a letter. You could have had it passed on and then left!

Also… the fact that Rhaenyra and Rhaenys are seemingly unaware that Borros can’t read is astounding.

“I will not fight you.” If I were Aemond, I would have said “why, because you do not have three to help you fight me?”

Luke hasn’t even flown in battle and I assume he hasn’t flown in a storm either. Like? Why not request time to stay and talk things out? Hear more of a possible offer? Hold him hostage for the king you now apparently serve? That would have been the smart thing to do

Also, Luke drew his sword, so does that not mean he’s no longer bound to be protected as a messenger?

While Arrax did so without Luke’s command, once more, it is the Blacks that incite the first physical act of violence. Rhaena or Baela punching Aemond first. Jace punching Aemond first when he didn’t like what Aemond was saying. Rhaenys escaping on dragonback instead of just fleeing and killing multiple people in the process. Arrax breathing fire on Vhagar.

And love (*sarcastic*) how the Greens are made to feel bad when they retaliate to aggression they did not necessarily start (although Aemond is fully at fault for being the one to set out after Luke and Arrax)

Great final shot of Rhaenyra? But I honestly don’t feel like it was a strong end to the season.

Bonus for next season:

I hate the whole “eye for an eye; a son for a son” thing because there was never an eye for an eye.

Let's be honest: Criston's offense’s more than justified and well-reasoned. Another question is how much this very offense is, but everyone will judge this through their own internal compass. Let me explain Cole’s motivation and worldview, maybe I'll open someone's eyes.

Let’s simulate the situation: we have a son from a humble family (so low that his position was low even for an engagement), who, with sweat, blood, his skills and efforts, carved out a place for himself in the Kingsguard, taking into account that, thanks to the goodwill of a representative of the royal family, - who has a golden spoon in her mouth, we remember, was able to get a healthy assessment of her capabilities and skills without watered calculations.

- “I know what it’s like to fight for something that others don’t value.”

He owes his new position precisely to the favor of the princess, and we have no reason to refute Criston’s conscience, because BEFORE any traumatic and drastic changes/events, he manifests himself as a conscientious and devoted knight, with a clear worldview.

They spend a lot of time together, and already at Aegon’s name day we see that the level of trust between Rhaenyra and Criston is high, moreover, it is rapidly gaining momentum when she opens some part of her soul, shares things that can be called “personal”, laments his situation and outlines the problems he faces. Most notable:

— “My father is trying to sell me to Jason Lannister. I was named heir to the throne only to improve the position of Lord Casterly Rock.

— Should I kill him?”

This is literally a joke about killing the LORD that Criston makes in the presence of the princess, and it is remarkable that they both laugh without taking it seriously.

— “You can choose your own path, you are lucky. Many would gladly change places with you.

— “I am the princess of Dragonstone, but I am toothless.”

— “Once, not so long ago, you were able to write my name in the White Book. A position in the Kingsguard is the highest honor for the Cole family. I owe you everything. And I wouldn’t call it toothless.”

He provides her with sincere support, without greedy or hypocritical intent, and she accepts it with open arms.

The development of their relationship, on the initiative of the princess, follows immediately when, after some time, abandoned by Daemon (I condemn) in a brothel, she persuades Criston to have sex. Rhaenyra lures him into the room, plays with the helmet, kisses him, not allowing him to leave, and then tries to free the knight from his armor. Yes, Criston could more than experience romantic feelings towards his princess, but above all, it was a kind of admiration, sincere gratitude for what bestowed her favor on the rootless commoner. His representation of Rhaenyra may seem banal and naive, namely as “a poor princess, enslaved by her position,” we will note this in the future. But based on his pure motives, he faces a choice in which his feelings equally suffer, his vows and, of course, the wishes of his object of desire, in relation to whom Criston has never crossed the line before, are called into question. Many may underestimate the pressure that arises between the statuses and titles of total opposites, and only in the example of “maid - prince” do some realize the problematic nature of such a union, but not “princess - knight”. Please note: despite gender, it is still a class difference that breeds power with abuse. And, unfortunately, Cole cannot know and be sure that Rhaenyra’s need to get sex here and now has nothing to do with her love for him. He hesitantly follows the princess's lead, putting aside his white cloak.

Next we see and hear that Criston is ashamed of himself for violating his honor, neglecting his duty, although he listened to his heart, to his duty to Rhaenyra.

— “You occasionally confided in me... Over the years of acquaintance. And it seems to me that I know you. A little.

— “More than a little.”

Another imaginary confirmation in Christon’s eyes of reciprocity.

— “You have said many times how you despise your position. That you will be married off at the whim of your father, without thinking about the inclination of your heart. And this day has come."

He imbues her with the problem mentioned in the past; driven not only by his dilemma, but also by Rhaenyra's “confinement,” a literal shackle that equally binds and constrains them both.

— “I ask you to come with me. Away from all this, from the humiliations and burdens of your heritage. Let's leave all this and look at the world together. We will be free, nameless. We are free to go wherever we want, to love whoever we want. Will you marry me? Not for the crown. For love.

— “I’m the Crown, Ser Criston. Or I will be her. I can complain about my debt, but would I choose infamy in exchange for a barrel of oranges, or a ship to Asshai? It is my duty to marry a noble of a great house. But my marriage is not the end all be all. Ser Criston, Laenor and I have come to an understanding. I gave him the right to do what he wants. He granted me the same”.

— “Do you want to make me a whore?”

— “I want what started to continue.” You are my protector. My white knight”.

— “I made a vow, a vow of chastity. I have nothing but my white cloak, and I have stained it! I thought the wedding would cleanse him.”

Literally, Criston pours out not only his soul to Rhaenyra, but also to us, as viewers. He dictates the reality of his situation, assures that he can provide and protect the princess as much as possible. But, of course, for the blood of the dragon, for the heiress, for the father’s daughter, who was previously brought up in the conditions of “do you want it? Get it!” such a prospect is worthless. Naive of Cole? Yes, but not without reason.

After everything, he feels extremely vulnerable, as well as after a sincere confession to the Queen - which responds even more precariously and nervously to any conscience and confidence, despite her gratitude. Already at the wedding of Rhaenyra and Laenor, Cole, like a taut string, stands at the service, but restlessly and nervously looks at the princess.

— “I’m on duty, what’s your business?”

— “You don’t know me, Ser Criston, but this alliance is very important to both of us.”

— “If you have something to say, Ser Joffrey, speak.”

— “Ser Laenor is as dear to me as I know the princess is to you. We must swear to keep them and their secrets. We’re not in any danger yet... They are safe.”

Sounds like a threat to a pins and needles knight with a stained cloak and a sense of duty, don’t you think? Criston can only guess how Joffrey knows about his affair with the princess, and only one of the options may look convincing - Rhaenyra telling Laenor about this, who could notify his lover along the chain. Again, every possible inclination towards princess on his part is undermined when their secret is at stake. Yes, Criston succumbs to anger and panic, resentment and hopelessness, for which he commits a much more terrible act than calling a woman names. But even so, Cole feels guilt, boundless disappointment, and at the lynching he also feels remorse. He plans to voluntarily commit suicide and admits his every mistake. This scene is literally the rebirth of a knight in the rays of Alicent’s understanding and favor.

And as a result: people complain countless times and blame Criston for swearing towards Rhaenyra, for which he apologizes. Cool. Let's think critically and delve into the story and characters, and not spit hypocrisy.

as expected, now that ep 1 with b&c will be aired in 2 weeks, people are getting weird.

please keep your "b&c wasn't that bad" shit takes out of the general tags <3 mind you, these are the same people that have been whining about "misogyny" for the last 2 years, but are now apparently ok with an innocent woman being tortured to the point of literally becoming a shell of her former self & a 6yo girl being threatened with rape.

and to all of the pro-b&c weirdos saying "bUt iT wAs aBoUt AeGoN", so 1. b&c is justified because aegon threw a party? 2. daemon also threw a party when his nephew and sister in law died, but y'all don't want to talk about that. 3. even if aegon was the one to kill luke, it still doesn't justify what daemon did to helaena and her kids - you're actually justifying a woman being punished for the crimes of her male relatives - and it doesn't matter if it's aegon or aemond.

What really angers people about Criston and Alicent is that Criston perceives himself as a protector to Alicent FROM Rhaenyra. A lot of people take what he said about Rhaenyra being a spider as him still being angry and rejected, and given the lack of media literacy among this fandom, I get that.

But Criston said that in response to Aemond shaming Alicent, and implying that she is a liar and a hypocrite. Aemond accused Alicent of having love for the enemy, and indirectly he is calling her a traitor. Criston was not thinking of Rhaenyra nor did he care to mention her until he perceived Aemond's comments as threatening Alicent due to her feelings toward Rhaenyra. He does not mention in depth what happened to him, but he does mention Alicent and Rhaenyra's relationship and basically explains to Ameond how Alicent was manipulated by Rhaenyra and lied to.

And that is true. Rhaenyra did lie to Alicent years ago which resulted in her father being dismissed and her being utterly alone at court. Rhaenyra manipulated Viserys into not really giving a fuck about Aemodn losing an eye all those years ago, and that negatively impacted Alicent.

Criston doesn't really care nor think of Rhaenyra in regards to himself -- he thinks of her as a danger and threat to Rhaenyra.

And because so many people dont really care for Alicent outside of Rhaenyra, this idea that someone is protecting Alicent and her honor from Rhaenyra infuriates them because in their eyes, Alicent exists for Rhaenyra. She exists to take abuse, manipulation, and shame from Rhaenyra.

Keep in mind, both Criston and Alicent faced sexual violence at the hands of Targaryen royalty, and that is something no one else can understand. That unique experience to them dictates their connection and how they act with one another. Criston was never actually able to seek justice for what happened to him, but he doesn't want Alicent to be soiled.

Alicent and Criston, through victims of trauma and abuse, and just being subservient to Targaryens, are always going to have a deeper, more meaningful and trauma-related bond than Rhaenyra and Alicent and I think that pisses people off.

When I was younger and more abled, I was so fucking on board with the fantasy genre’s subversion of traditional femininity. We weren’t just fainting maidens locked up in towers; we could do anything men could do, be as strong or as physical or as violent. I got into western martial arts and learned to fight with a rapier, fell in love with the longsword.

But since I’ve gotten too disabled to fight anymore, I… find myself coming back to that maiden in a tower. It’s that funny thing, where subverting femininity is powerful for the people who have always been forced into it… but for the people who have always been excluded, the powerful thing can be embracing it.

As I’m disabled, as I say to groups of friends, “I can’t walk that far,” as I’m in too much pain to keep partying, I find myself worrying: I’m boring, too quiet, too stationary, irrelevant. The message sent to the disabled is: You’re out of the narrative, you’re secondary, you’re a burden.

The remarkable thing about the maiden in her tower is not her immobility; it’s common for disabled people to be abandoned, set adrift, waiting at bus stops or watching out the windows, forgotten in institutions or stranded in our houses. The remarkable thing is that she’s like a beacon, turning her tower into a lighthouse; people want to come to her, she’s important, she inspires through her appearance and words and craftwork.  In medieval romances she gives gifts, write letters, sends messengers, and summons lovers; she plays chess, commissions ballads, composes music, commands knights. She is her household’s moral centre in a castle under siege. She is a castle unto herself, and the integrity of her body matters.

That can be so revolutionary to those of us stuck in our towers who fall prey to thinking: Nobody would want to visit; nobody would want to listen; nobody would want to stay.

Rhaenyra and Aemma

I think it's interesting we see this exchange from Alicent and Rhaenyra:

ALICENT: You're worried your father is about to overshadow you with a son. RHAENYRA: I only worry for my mother. I hope for my father that he gets a son. As long as I can recall, it's all he's wanted.

And then in the next scene we hear from Aemma:

AEMMA: Rhaenyra has already declared that she is to have a sister. VISERYS: Really? AEMMA: She even named her. VISERYS: Dare I ask? AEMMA: Visenya. She chose a dragon's egg for the cradle that she said reminded her of Vhagar.

At first I thought that Rhaenyra was hiding her true desire from Alicent for us to hear the truth from her mother. And if it were just that- no shade AT ALL. I mean, why not have ambition? Why not want to be heir? Why not want to rule?

But I do think that Rhaenyra's emotions about being heir are more related to being loved and being valued by her parents. Her entire life she has not been enough- she has seen her mother go through all of these tragic stillbirths as a child and of course she would come to the conclusion that her mother's pain and her father's insistence on a son means that she is not enough. So there is already some resentment about the idea of a brother. But I don't think it's so much that, as Alicent says, she is frightened of the son overshadowing her. It is more that she is hurt that the pursuit of a male heir has been overshadowing her for her entire life.

I do believe her when she said that she hopes her father gets a son though- even though it hurts her, she would be happy for him I think. And it would be a relief that this painful pursuit of a male heir would be over for her mother. But then why does she declare that she is to have a sister?

I think that maybe it is to make Aemma feel less stressed honestly. We see how upset Aemma is when she talks to Viserys about the pressure she is under to produce a male heir:

AEMMA: The tourney to celebrate the firstborn son that we presently do not have. You do understand nothing will cause the babe to grow a cock if it does not already possess one?

And then after he tells her his dream again:

AEMMA: Born wearing a crown? Gods spare me, birth is unpleasant enough as it is. This is the last time, Viserys. I've lost one babe in the cradle, had two stillbirths, and two pregnancies ended well before their term. That's five in twice as many years. I know it is my duty to provide you an heir, and I'm sorry if I have failed you in that. I am. But I've mourned all the dead children I can.

This is so heartbreaking. Aemma is under so much pressure and has dealt with so much grief- and feels as though she failed Viserys and the realm. And so I think that Rhaenyra is trying to boost her mother's spirits and telling her that it will be wonderful if the baby turns out to be a girl. It goes deeper, I think, than Rhaenyra not wanting a boy to overshadow her. As I mentioned before, the quest for a boy has already overshadowed he and it is not as though she will be heir (or so she believes) even if the baby is a girl. Daemon is currently heir and I am sure Rhaenyra doesn't think that will change. I think she is telling her mom she is hoping for a girl so that her mother does not feel like she failed if the baby is a girl. I think she is acting out excitement and anticipation for a girl because she feels like she didn't have that for her own birth. She probably thinks that her birth was a disappointment for her father and her mother. Should the baby happen to be a sister this time, she doesn't want the her to come into the world as a disappointment like she did. She wants her sister to come into the world wanted and valued.

I think it makes sense that Rhaenyra would do this because we can see Rhaenyra's concern for her mother in their first (and last!) exchange:

RHAENYRA: Did you sleep? AEMMA: I slept. RHAENYRA: How long? AEMMA: I don't need mothering, Rhaenyra. RHAENYRA: Well, here you are, surrounded by attendants, all focused on the babe. Someone has to attend to you. AEMMA: You will lie in this bed soon enough, Rhaenyra. This discomfort is how we serve the realm.

It's interesting that Aemma says "I don't need mothering," because her own mother, Daella Targaryen, died in childbirth (they don’t mention it in the show but it is in Fire and Blood.) So she would have grown up without mothering. It also struck me that while Aemma tries to mother Rhaenyra by giving her practical advice about “the order of things” for a woman in their world, Rhaenyra’s style of “mothering” Aemma is to point out how important she is and to ensure that she is being taken care of- and prioritizing her above the baby. It’s sad because Rhaenyra is essentially mothering her own mother in the way she wishes she was mothered. Rhaenyra wants to live in a world where, as Arya Stark said, “The woman is important too!” And it’s a glimpse of how she would have mothered her own stillborn daughter, Princess Visenya, or supported a sister if one had been born to her parents.

You've gotta love Jews more than you hate Nazis.

You've gotta love trans folks more than you hate TERFs.

You've gotta love your unhoused neighbors more than you hate the billionaires.

You've gotta love immigrants more than you hate ICE.

You've gotta love queer kids more than you hate christian fundamentalists.

You've gotta love fat people more than you hate the diet industry.

You've gotta love disabled people more than you hate the insurance companies.

You've gotta love your fellow humans more than you hate the worst that humanity has to offer. You don't have to like every person you're fighting for, and you sure as hell don't have to give up your righteous anger, but hate is ultimately corrosive.

You've gotta love.