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Latest Posts by iknowhowtrianominaworksbutimlazy - Page 3
Let's be honest: Criston's offense’s more than justified and well-reasoned. Another question is how much this very offense is, but everyone will judge this through their own internal compass. Let me explain Cole’s motivation and worldview, maybe I'll open someone's eyes.
Let’s simulate the situation: we have a son from a humble family (so low that his position was low even for an engagement), who, with sweat, blood, his skills and efforts, carved out a place for himself in the Kingsguard, taking into account that, thanks to the goodwill of a representative of the royal family, - who has a golden spoon in her mouth, we remember, was able to get a healthy assessment of her capabilities and skills without watered calculations.
- “I know what it’s like to fight for something that others don’t value.”
He owes his new position precisely to the favor of the princess, and we have no reason to refute Criston’s conscience, because BEFORE any traumatic and drastic changes/events, he manifests himself as a conscientious and devoted knight, with a clear worldview.
They spend a lot of time together, and already at Aegon’s name day we see that the level of trust between Rhaenyra and Criston is high, moreover, it is rapidly gaining momentum when she opens some part of her soul, shares things that can be called “personal”, laments his situation and outlines the problems he faces. Most notable:
— “My father is trying to sell me to Jason Lannister. I was named heir to the throne only to improve the position of Lord Casterly Rock.
— Should I kill him?”
This is literally a joke about killing the LORD that Criston makes in the presence of the princess, and it is remarkable that they both laugh without taking it seriously.
— “You can choose your own path, you are lucky. Many would gladly change places with you.
— “I am the princess of Dragonstone, but I am toothless.”
— “Once, not so long ago, you were able to write my name in the White Book. A position in the Kingsguard is the highest honor for the Cole family. I owe you everything. And I wouldn’t call it toothless.”
He provides her with sincere support, without greedy or hypocritical intent, and she accepts it with open arms.
The development of their relationship, on the initiative of the princess, follows immediately when, after some time, abandoned by Daemon (I condemn) in a brothel, she persuades Criston to have sex. Rhaenyra lures him into the room, plays with the helmet, kisses him, not allowing him to leave, and then tries to free the knight from his armor. Yes, Criston could more than experience romantic feelings towards his princess, but above all, it was a kind of admiration, sincere gratitude for what bestowed her favor on the rootless commoner. His representation of Rhaenyra may seem banal and naive, namely as “a poor princess, enslaved by her position,” we will note this in the future. But based on his pure motives, he faces a choice in which his feelings equally suffer, his vows and, of course, the wishes of his object of desire, in relation to whom Criston has never crossed the line before, are called into question. Many may underestimate the pressure that arises between the statuses and titles of total opposites, and only in the example of “maid - prince” do some realize the problematic nature of such a union, but not “princess - knight”. Please note: despite gender, it is still a class difference that breeds power with abuse. And, unfortunately, Cole cannot know and be sure that Rhaenyra’s need to get sex here and now has nothing to do with her love for him. He hesitantly follows the princess's lead, putting aside his white cloak.
Next we see and hear that Criston is ashamed of himself for violating his honor, neglecting his duty, although he listened to his heart, to his duty to Rhaenyra.
— “You occasionally confided in me... Over the years of acquaintance. And it seems to me that I know you. A little.
— “More than a little.”
Another imaginary confirmation in Christon’s eyes of reciprocity.
— “You have said many times how you despise your position. That you will be married off at the whim of your father, without thinking about the inclination of your heart. And this day has come."
He imbues her with the problem mentioned in the past; driven not only by his dilemma, but also by Rhaenyra's “confinement,” a literal shackle that equally binds and constrains them both.
— “I ask you to come with me. Away from all this, from the humiliations and burdens of your heritage. Let's leave all this and look at the world together. We will be free, nameless. We are free to go wherever we want, to love whoever we want. Will you marry me? Not for the crown. For love.
— “I’m the Crown, Ser Criston. Or I will be her. I can complain about my debt, but would I choose infamy in exchange for a barrel of oranges, or a ship to Asshai? It is my duty to marry a noble of a great house. But my marriage is not the end all be all. Ser Criston, Laenor and I have come to an understanding. I gave him the right to do what he wants. He granted me the same”.
— “Do you want to make me a whore?”
— “I want what started to continue.” You are my protector. My white knight”.
— “I made a vow, a vow of chastity. I have nothing but my white cloak, and I have stained it! I thought the wedding would cleanse him.”
Literally, Criston pours out not only his soul to Rhaenyra, but also to us, as viewers. He dictates the reality of his situation, assures that he can provide and protect the princess as much as possible. But, of course, for the blood of the dragon, for the heiress, for the father’s daughter, who was previously brought up in the conditions of “do you want it? Get it!” such a prospect is worthless. Naive of Cole? Yes, but not without reason.
After everything, he feels extremely vulnerable, as well as after a sincere confession to the Queen - which responds even more precariously and nervously to any conscience and confidence, despite her gratitude. Already at the wedding of Rhaenyra and Laenor, Cole, like a taut string, stands at the service, but restlessly and nervously looks at the princess.
— “I’m on duty, what’s your business?”
— “You don’t know me, Ser Criston, but this alliance is very important to both of us.”
— “If you have something to say, Ser Joffrey, speak.”
— “Ser Laenor is as dear to me as I know the princess is to you. We must swear to keep them and their secrets. We’re not in any danger yet... They are safe.”
Sounds like a threat to a pins and needles knight with a stained cloak and a sense of duty, don’t you think? Criston can only guess how Joffrey knows about his affair with the princess, and only one of the options may look convincing - Rhaenyra telling Laenor about this, who could notify his lover along the chain. Again, every possible inclination towards princess on his part is undermined when their secret is at stake. Yes, Criston succumbs to anger and panic, resentment and hopelessness, for which he commits a much more terrible act than calling a woman names. But even so, Cole feels guilt, boundless disappointment, and at the lynching he also feels remorse. He plans to voluntarily commit suicide and admits his every mistake. This scene is literally the rebirth of a knight in the rays of Alicent’s understanding and favor.
And as a result: people complain countless times and blame Criston for swearing towards Rhaenyra, for which he apologizes. Cool. Let's think critically and delve into the story and characters, and not spit hypocrisy.
Now I know this is purely a headcanon, but Alicent‘s rage at Aegon would make a lot mire sense if he and Aemond shared a room. We see Baela and Rhaena share one so it isn‘t completely unreasonable.
If that were the case Aegon _should_ have noticed Aegon sneaking out and either prevented it or gone with him. But he didn‘t because he was pass-out-drunk.
people on tiktok and twitter are the most purposely obtuse people that i have ever seen.
and with the things people keep saying about blood & cheese, it has only gotten worse. now if what people are saying is true i am going to be unhappy, but people are still using it to misconstrue the past events of driftmark when aemond lost his eye.
people have started placing blame on alicent and criston for not being there and while i do agree that the adults have a lot of blame in this incident it is not there. alicent was not there because she was in bed. where the kids were SUPPOSED TO BE. just because she is their mother does not mean that she needs to be awake 24/7 watching them. notice how viserys is not getting any of the blame there?
people are saying that since criston’s a kingsguard he should’ve been there since he is supposed to protect the whole family, and that is partially true. he is supposed to protect the whole family, but he is sworn to ALICENT, which means that when she is asleep he is supposed to keep watch over her. he cannot possibly watch every single member of the family at once, which is why there are multiple members of the kingsguard. this means that there should have been another member of the kingsguard assigned to the kids unless viserys never bothered, which i would not be surprised by.
now onto alicent asking aegon where he was. i do not agree with her here, but people are not understanding why she did this.
1. all of the children besides aegon and helaena (and joffrey) were there, so why wasn’t aegon? because he was drunk and passed out. now that doesn’t mean that he should be punished for being asleep like he was supposed to be, but when your younger son lost an eye when he got 4 v 1’d it might be a little irritating that the reason your oldest wasn’t there is because he was passed out drunk. still not his fault.
2. alicent has been trying to make aegon see the danger that he and his siblings are in and trying to make him take responsibility to protect them as the oldest and he has resisted and now he has “failed” and aemond lost an eye. agree with her actions or not, but she is trying to save her children’s lives even if it backfires.
now rhaenyra and daemon. people get upset that rhaenrya gets blame when alicent doesn’t. and while i get that since they both shouldn’t have to watch their children sleep to make sure they don’t get up to anything after they’ve been sent to bed, i do think people need to remember that their situations are a little different.
alicent sent her children to bed and wasn’t there because she also went to bed. rhaenrya sent her children to bed and wasn’t there because she went to sleep with her uncle at his wife’s funeral. let me repeat that. SHE AND DAEMON FUCKED AT HIS WIFE’S FUNERAL. THAT IS THE PROBLEM, at least for me. maybe i would be more sympathetic there if laena was cold in her damn grave before they did the horizontal tango.
now all in all i hope you all realize that this situation is a little more complicated than people act like and that if you’re going to blame anyone blame, viserys because really this is all his fault.
ready to defend my dysfunctional family
FABIEN FRANKEL TALKING ABOUT ALICENT AND CRISTON COLE'S RELATIONSHIP.
"what do i do now that i finished the hunger games books?"
if i may suggest:
- listen to the katniss chronicles by tkc productions.
- read peeta's games trilogy by igsygrace on ao3.
- check out @everlarkficquestions's and @thgfanfictionlibrary's masterlists and have a blast reading fics.
- watch the film adaptations and lustily point out the discrepancies from the books.
- search everlark + edit on twitter. here's a thread of my favorites.
- search the hunger games + art on tumblr.
- make hunger games/everlark boards on pinterest.
- curate hyper-specific hunger games playlists.
- get crazy wild with headcanons (and write them down if you want).
- doodle everlark or any characters doing the most random things.
- stare at a wall.
Alicent and Criston have every right to be together.
I’ve read a lot of posts regarding their non-existent hypocrisy and I’d like to clear some things up.
First and foremost, stop using Alicent’s “Where is duty, where is sacrifice?” line against her or Nyra’s outrageous “Exhausting, wasn’t it?” speech because you think you’re eating when you’re, in fact, starving. Alicent has done her duty and sacrificed herself. It’s the only thing she’s been doing for the past 20 years. She gave the man she was forced to marry four children and she took care of him despite all the shit he put her through. She has lived all her life based on her principles and now her husband is gone. She mourned him, she buried him, it’s been more than 10 days since his death (confirmed that E1 S2 takes place 10 days after Lucerys’ death) and she is finally fucking free. She deserves a sliver of comfort. Alicent is the only one in this series that’s been faithful and dutiful to a T, yet look where that got her. If someone has the right to break the law a little bit, it’s definitely her.
That being said, I don’t know when it was decided that Alicent is a pious saint that can do no wrong, but I need to remind y’all that following a religion does not magically prevent you from sinning. Is she committing fornication? Obviously. However, you are all under this impression that this is hypocritical on her behalf because she berated Rhaenyra for it when they were younger, without considering that her anger was justified for a myriad of other reasons, such as (but not limited to): 1) the fact that Rhaenyra’s freedom to marry whomever she pleased was a privilege granted to her thanks to Alicent’s efforts, who supported her even if Rhaenyra hated her, yet her friend casually threw that away, 2) the fact that Rhaenyra lied to her by swearing on her morher’s grave and never even mentioned Criston, 3) the fact that Rhaenyra had the guts to call her “sister” while lying to her face, 4) the fact that her lies resulted in Otto getting fired since Rhaenyra misled Alicent so that she speaks to Viserys in favour of her friend and betraying her own father by siding against him (a decision she wouldn’t have made if she knew the truth), leaving her completely alone and friendless at court, even if he was right all along and finally 5) the fact that Rhaenyra is the most sought after bachelorette in the whole world and by having sex she undermines herself (Rhaenyra knows this well, hence why she denies these accusations) and literally endangers herself, because had she been married to any other man but Laenor and had this man found out his wife and future queen is not a virgin, imagine the fucking horrors she could have been subjected to. Like, I hate to break it to you, but a 40-year-old widow, who’s had four kids and has completed her duty to the point where she is actually no longer needed and could leave the palace to go live the rest of her life in peace somewhere else and no one would notice her absence (literally though, she has birthed heirs, her husband is dead, her son is a grown adult king, her job is done there), having sex, is not the same as an 18-year-old princess and future heir in her prime, whose purity is linked to her worth, getting caught drunk in a brothel, hooking up with her uncle and losing her virginity to her guard, all in one night. Viserys himself was outraged. There’s lows and then there’s lows, y’all.
By the way, the crazy assumptions that Alicent has been cheating on Viserys with Criston for a while now need to stop. When Olivia Cooke said that they had filmed a messy sex scene with Fabien Frankel in a recent interview, she never said this was for S1 of HOTD. I don’t know where y’all got that from, but even if it was true, that scene has been scrapped so it is not canon. And don’t make me laugh about Daeron, a dragon rider who canonically has Valyrian features, potentially having brown hair. You’re all so blinded by your hatred for Alicent that you want her to be a lying hypocrite in order to make yourselves feel better about Rhaenyra’s mishaps, that you don’t get that the whole point of her and Criston getting physical is that she is a tortured woman who is finally able to break free, not that she has been a hypocrite all along. You’re heavily misunderstanding her arc.
Finally, when it comes to my good man Criston, y’all have lost it completely. No, Alicent is not raping him, unless he tells her to stop and she closes the door behind her like Rhaenyra did that is. No, Criston did not lie about how important his honour is to him. There’s a whole article on how Clare Kilner, the director of E4 S1, decided that Cole removing his armour slowly was necessary because it symbolises his inner conflict and uncertainty over breaking his vow: should he soil his cloak for the sake of the woman he loves? And he does soil it, because he thinks she loves him back. But that honourable man dies the day Rhaenyra tells him that he’ll never be anything more than a side piece to her. This man stops giving a flying fuck about his honour, oath, position and life. He is trying to kill himself. And you know what stops him? Alicent. Alicent is the only thing between him and death, the only person to show him kindness and understanding, to pull him up from the lowest point in his life. I don’t think you heard Alicent in E7 S1: “No, you’re sworn to me!”. Y’all. His life is hers. He doesn’t care about Rhaenyra, his job, Viserys, anyone else at this point. Only Alicent exists in his mind, Fabien himself has said time and time again that his loyalty to her is unwavering. He only exists for Alicent’s sake. He’s who you wish Daemon was. Crying that “Criston is a bad knight and a liar because he broke his chastity oath yet again!” is so pointless because that knight has been dead since Rhaenyra’s marriage to Laenor. What does an oath mean when you find out the people you swore it to have betrayed you?
After the Wedding
(Study, The Dedication
Edmund Blair Leighton, 1908)
In the years since, they had never spoken of what happened in the Godswood when she found him with his dagger, but she knew he must think about it constantly. That night had changed his life forever. She would never forget the sight of him kneeling in the moonlight. At first she thought he was praying. When she saw the steel in his hand, panic gripped her and she called out to him. After years of not being heard she was surprised when he looked up. Her voice in the darkness had saved his life that night. If she had been even a half minute later she would have come upon his blood spilt on the grass and heard his dying words.
Instead, she was there to take his hand and pull him back from the darkness threatening to consume him. She pried his dagger from his tight grip and took his shaking bloody hands in hers. She did not flinch away from Ser Joffrey’s blood even when it was staining her hands as well. When he was done crying she gently wiped away his tears like she did for her children. She knelt in the wet grass with him without a care for her fine dress and spoke to him softly of second chances and forgiveness. After everything he confessed to her, all she knew he had done, he could not believe she found it in her heart to forgive him. But she did so without hesitation. He had thought himself completely lost but she looked upon him and somehow saw a man worth saving. That was the first time they prayed together. They prayed to The Father for the strength to push forward and when they were done, he put away his tears and swore himself into her service.
“I will shield your back and keep your counsel and give my life for yours if need be. I swear it by the old gods and the new.”
“I vow that you shall always have a place by my hearth and meat and mead at my table. And I pledge to ask no service of you that might bring you dishonor. I swear it by the old gods and the new.”
-
It had been very difficult to protect him from House Velaryon in the aftermath. Ser Laenor wanted his head, others called for The Wall. Luckily, Viserys had fallen deeply unwell at the wedding and was not in any state to interfere while she scrambled to save Ser Criston’s life. Commander Westerling had tried to stop her from taking him into her service but she was the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms and he could not deny her when King Viserys was not there to order him otherwise. It was the first time she had ever been able to wield her crown effectively towards her own ends.
After speaking with Westerling, she went to see her husband. He was barely conscious from the milk of the poppy and in a great deal of pain. It was horrible to see him in such a state. He might not be the man she would have chosen for herself but he was still the man she swore herself to. She promised she would help him through his illness and she had meant it. She sent Maester Orwyle on an errand and tended to Viserys like a loving wife was supposed to, gently changing his bandages and calming any agitation. Though he was barely conscious he seemed happy to see her and relieved to have her comfort. She gently held his blackened hand and told him everything would be alright. When he had a moment of clarity she seized the opportunity to sway him to mercy. He need not worry, Princess Rhaenyra was safe because of Ser Criston Cole. Ser Joffrey Lonmouth had made threats against her and their Kingsguard had done his job, albeit more brutally than was necessary.
“Do not punish a loyal knight, Viserys. Give him to me to keep our children safe and he will be far from House Velaryon.” She whispered to him. Viserys mumbled in agreement, far too weak to voice a different opinion. She thanked him for his understanding, recalled Maester Orwyle, and quickly left to secure Ser Criston’s safety before Ser Laenor could find him.
But Ser Laenor was already stalking the hallways waiting for Ser Criston to show his face. A confrontation between them could not be allowed. Ser Laenor was a dragon rider and revered warrior but he would not stand against a knight as skilled as Ser Criston. If Cole killed Laenor defending himself from his revenge she would not be able to save him from House Velaryon.
“Ser Laenor…”
“Where is he?” She had never seen him look so discomposed. He was furious, eyes red and raw from his tears. He had cleaned the blood from his face but there was still some under his chin and on his fine clothing. She might have pretended she did not know what he was talking about, a method that helped her deal with Prince Daemon when he had his fun needling her with his distasteful jokes, but Laenor was not playing games.
“Ser Laenor, congratulations on your…”
“Where is Ser Criston Cole?” He nearly shouted. “I know you know. Westerling said as much.” He gestured at the blood on her dress. “Where is he?!”
“Ser Joffrey threatened the princess in front of a Kingsguard, what did he think would happen?” She replied, trying to sound queenly.
“Ser Joffrey would not do that, I know him!” He said furiously.
“Yes, I know how well you know him.” She retorted quietly, tactfully following his lead and not using the past tense. You knew him. “If you drag Ser Criston into a duel or trial much will come to light your father wants hidden.”
“Are you threatening me?” He was hoping for an excuse to escalate but she would not let him. She kept her voice lower than his and spoke slowly and gently.
“I am telling you that pursuing revenge for your friend will bring you only trouble of your own making. Ser Joffrey is gone. He would not want you to bring yourself more pain by laying out all of your family’s secrets to the court.”
“You don’t know what he would want.” He hissed.
“I know that moving forward and facing your duty is more honorable than seeking revenge. Now is a time to make your family stronger, not weaker. You should go and tend to your new wife. My stepdaughter is surely waiting for you.” For a moment he looked bitterly hopeless at the thought of his marriage bed. She briefly felt a twinge of pity for him. She knew that feeling of sickening dread and resignation all too well.
“This is not over.” He glared at her. “Ser Criston Cole will pay for this.”
“Good night, Ser Laenor.” She forced the conversation to a close and politely took her leave, careful not to walk too quickly. She needed to look confident but her heart was hammering in her chest. She took the long way back to her chambers in case he thought to follow her.
-
“Ser Laenor is looking for you.” His face remained ashen, miserable, guilty and disgusted with himself but he did not look surprised.
“I should go and face him…”
“No.” She said at once. “Give it time. At least till tomorrow, he isn’t thinking straight. Let Rhaenyra comfort him first.” He stiffened at the mention of the princess but nodded. She sighed.
“It seems we are both meant to spend our lives here in Kings Landing with no other possible path laid ahead, as much as we might wish otherwise.” she said carefully. “We both are also in need of allies. I can protect you from Ser Laenor and House Velaryon and you can protect me and my children from…everything else.”
“Everything else?” She hesitated a moment but pushed forward. An honest conversation was what was needed here. It was passed due. She had to be clear in what she needed from him. She could not muddy the waters by speaking too cryptically. She kept her voice low, in case there was someone listening in the walls.
“You trusted me with the truth and I will do the same,” she said quietly but frankly and took a step closer. He shifted uncomfortably. “Prince Daemon and Princess Rhaenyra will one day turn their sights on my children and they will spill their blood to secure the throne. Mine and my fathers as well for good measure. I know that now. They have grown to bitterly hate us. I have no one to help me stop this from happening. I may wear a crown but my influence here is limited, my father is banished and my husband...my husband is willfully blind to the conflict in our family. Only you have defeated Daemon in combat, I fear only you can help us.”
“I am not worthy of your confidence, your grace. I have done…terrible things…why would you trust me with your children?” He nervously wiped his palm on his trousers subconsciously, as if Ser Joffrey’s blood still stained his hands.
“It is only decent people who feel shame, Ser Criston. Only a penitent heart deserves forgiveness. Do you think Rhaenyra regrets anything that she does? Do you think she has shed a single tear for the hurt she has caused?”
“Probably not.” She shook her head in agreement.
“Sometimes I think that must be an easier way to live but you and I are not made that way. I am grateful for that. And I would be grateful to have you in my household. When you told me the truth last week you proved yourself a better man than you believe yourself to be. We all make mistakes but those missteps do not need to define us if we strive to be better.”
“Thank you, your grace.” He still looked sad. She hesitated but then went and slowly sat where she had when he confessed to her. He stood before her and did not sit beside her again.
“I used to think my friendship with Rhaenyra would be enough to protect me and my family.” She said gently. “She was my closest friend, for years and years. I thought she always would be. But we have both seen what friendship means to her. We should have seen it sooner, before she could hurt us. But now we know the truth; we are not important to her. If we are both to survive here we need to protect ourselves and each other.” He nodded miserably. “When you swore yourself to me you did not know what you were stepping into, I apologize for that but my family sorely needs you and your sword.” He nodded again then knelt before her.
“My sword is yours, your grace.”
Otto loves Helaena almost as much as I do!
Credit: @TheneverlandG on twitter
I‘d say that‘s generally the green experience these days.
The emotional rollercoaster of fluctuating between utter despair, disgust, and hopelessness to pure childlike elation within two days is what it feels to be an Alicole shipper
Guinevere and Lancelot's Sex
(an overview so we can be on the same page when discussing Alicent and Criston's sex)
I've been looking into the history of courtly love for quite a while now, trying to figure out where the "chaste" bit comes from. And honestly I'm still not sure. (My best theory at the moment is that it was Elizabeth I's contribution?) Histories consistently trace courtly love to The Knight of the Cart, the OG Guinevere and Lancelot story — a story where they do have sex.
They are the poster children. And they have always been unambiguously sexual.
The Knight of the Cart
Queen Guinevere and Lancelot have sex about halfway through The Knight of the Cart. At this point, Lancelot has traveled for a week and braved all sorts of hurdles to come rescue Guinevere, who's being held captive. He wants to have sex with her, but he does not expect sex from her — he doesn't think he's owed anything. This is expressed in this line:
"It would take more than these bars to keep me out. Nothing but your command could thwart my power to come to you. If you will but grant me your permission, the way will open before me. But if it is not your pleasure, then the way is so obstructed that I could not possibly pass through."
A reminder that The Knight of the Cart was commissioned by a woman, Marie de Champagne. This is a female fantasy — and specifically, the fantasy of a noblewoman who's in a political marriage where sex is presumbably expected and owed.
So Guinevere says yes, he climbs through her window, and they have sex. It's written "fade to black" style, but the author does tell us they had a great time.
Their sport is so agreeable and sweet, as they kiss and fondle each other, that in truth such a marvellous joy comes over them as was never heard or known. But their joy will not be revealed by me, for in a story, it has no place. Yet, the most choice and delightful satisfaction was precisely that of which our story must not speak.
I've seen too much discourse where Criston wanting to worship Alicent and have sex with her are framed as if they're in opposition or mutually incompatible. Which just — no. Lancelot kneels to Guinevere in an explicitly religious way, both when he enters the room to have sex with her, and before he leaves.
then he comes to the bed of the Queen, whom he adores and before whom he kneels, holding her more dear than the relic of any saint. .... When he leaves the room, he bows and acts precisely as if he were before a shrine; then he goes with a heavy heart, and reaches his lodgings without being recognised by any one.
Rhaenyra and Aemma
I think it's interesting we see this exchange from Alicent and Rhaenyra:
ALICENT: You're worried your father is about to overshadow you with a son. RHAENYRA: I only worry for my mother. I hope for my father that he gets a son. As long as I can recall, it's all he's wanted.
And then in the next scene we hear from Aemma:
AEMMA: Rhaenyra has already declared that she is to have a sister. VISERYS: Really? AEMMA: She even named her. VISERYS: Dare I ask? AEMMA: Visenya. She chose a dragon's egg for the cradle that she said reminded her of Vhagar.
At first I thought that Rhaenyra was hiding her true desire from Alicent for us to hear the truth from her mother. And if it were just that- no shade AT ALL. I mean, why not have ambition? Why not want to be heir? Why not want to rule?
But I do think that Rhaenyra's emotions about being heir are more related to being loved and being valued by her parents. Her entire life she has not been enough- she has seen her mother go through all of these tragic stillbirths as a child and of course she would come to the conclusion that her mother's pain and her father's insistence on a son means that she is not enough. So there is already some resentment about the idea of a brother. But I don't think it's so much that, as Alicent says, she is frightened of the son overshadowing her. It is more that she is hurt that the pursuit of a male heir has been overshadowing her for her entire life.
I do believe her when she said that she hopes her father gets a son though- even though it hurts her, she would be happy for him I think. And it would be a relief that this painful pursuit of a male heir would be over for her mother. But then why does she declare that she is to have a sister?
I think that maybe it is to make Aemma feel less stressed honestly. We see how upset Aemma is when she talks to Viserys about the pressure she is under to produce a male heir:
AEMMA: The tourney to celebrate the firstborn son that we presently do not have. You do understand nothing will cause the babe to grow a cock if it does not already possess one?
And then after he tells her his dream again:
AEMMA: Born wearing a crown? Gods spare me, birth is unpleasant enough as it is. This is the last time, Viserys. I've lost one babe in the cradle, had two stillbirths, and two pregnancies ended well before their term. That's five in twice as many years. I know it is my duty to provide you an heir, and I'm sorry if I have failed you in that. I am. But I've mourned all the dead children I can.
This is so heartbreaking. Aemma is under so much pressure and has dealt with so much grief- and feels as though she failed Viserys and the realm. And so I think that Rhaenyra is trying to boost her mother's spirits and telling her that it will be wonderful if the baby turns out to be a girl. It goes deeper, I think, than Rhaenyra not wanting a boy to overshadow her. As I mentioned before, the quest for a boy has already overshadowed he and it is not as though she will be heir (or so she believes) even if the baby is a girl. Daemon is currently heir and I am sure Rhaenyra doesn't think that will change. I think she is telling her mom she is hoping for a girl so that her mother does not feel like she failed if the baby is a girl. I think she is acting out excitement and anticipation for a girl because she feels like she didn't have that for her own birth. She probably thinks that her birth was a disappointment for her father and her mother. Should the baby happen to be a sister this time, she doesn't want the her to come into the world as a disappointment like she did. She wants her sister to come into the world wanted and valued.
I think it makes sense that Rhaenyra would do this because we can see Rhaenyra's concern for her mother in their first (and last!) exchange:
RHAENYRA: Did you sleep? AEMMA: I slept. RHAENYRA: How long? AEMMA: I don't need mothering, Rhaenyra. RHAENYRA: Well, here you are, surrounded by attendants, all focused on the babe. Someone has to attend to you. AEMMA: You will lie in this bed soon enough, Rhaenyra. This discomfort is how we serve the realm.
It's interesting that Aemma says "I don't need mothering," because her own mother, Daella Targaryen, died in childbirth (they don’t mention it in the show but it is in Fire and Blood.) So she would have grown up without mothering. It also struck me that while Aemma tries to mother Rhaenyra by giving her practical advice about “the order of things” for a woman in their world, Rhaenyra’s style of “mothering” Aemma is to point out how important she is and to ensure that she is being taken care of- and prioritizing her above the baby. It’s sad because Rhaenyra is essentially mothering her own mother in the way she wishes she was mothered. Rhaenyra wants to live in a world where, as Arya Stark said, “The woman is important too!” And it’s a glimpse of how she would have mothered her own stillborn daughter, Princess Visenya, or supported a sister if one had been born to her parents.
As a disabled person, I feel this so much. Yes, we‘re not lesser than anyone else, not any less deserving of happiness and recognition but sometimes we have to work harder for things, because people around us won‘t see it that way otherwise.
Also as an aside most people are disadvantaged in one way but might have some privilege compared to others and most people have to compensate for something they shouldn‘t have to compensate for.
Aemond had to compensate for not having a dragon and being seen as lesser for it, Jace had to compensate for not looking remotely Valyrian. In both instances they shouldn‘t have been bullied in the first place, but both lads worked to overcome their problems. Rhaenyra just doesn‘t.
I finally formulated why I don't like Rhaenyra. And it's not about misogyny, or even that I find her boring (although I do). If we look at this story the way TB fans do it, then we get something like "a woman fights the system in a patriarchal world." It sounds great, it sounds like a story that I might like. But does she fight? Because the problem is that she doesn't. She doesn't fight. And the whole rhetoric of TB fans usually boils down to "you demand from Rhaenyra what you wouldn't demand from a man in her place." But isn't that how it works? If you live in a place where women aren't considered equal to men, you should try to become ten times better than any of them in order to earn respect, and that's normal. Characters who understand the realities of their world and accept them to fight injustice command respect. At the same time, Rhaenyra didn't do anything - she just wanted the world around her to change itself for her convenience, so that the rules by which it worked before she was born would simply be forgotten at the snap of her fingers. She wasn't trying to prove that she was worthy of being a queen, she wanted to be respected just because her father ordered it, but it doesn't work that way. That's why I don't like her - she wanted the world to change on its own, instead of trying to change it with her own efforts.
I would be very interested in hearing the museum design rant
by popular demand: Guy That Took One (1) Museum Studies Class Focused On Science Museums Rants About Art Museums. thank u for coming please have a seat
so. background. the concept of the "science museum" grew out of 1) the wunderkammer (cabinet of curiosities), also known as "hey check out all this weird cool shit i have", and 2) academic collections of natural history specimens (usually taxidermied) -- pre-photography these were super important for biological research (see also). early science museums usually grew out of university collections or bequests of some guy's Weird Shit Collection or both, and were focused on utility to researchers rather than educational value to the layperson (picture a room just, full of taxidermy birds with little labels on them and not a lot of curation outside that). eventually i guess they figured they could make more on admission by aiming for a mass audience? or maybe it was the cultural influence of all the world's fairs and shit (many of which also caused science museums to exist), which were aimed at a mass audience. or maybe it was because the research function became much more divorced from the museum function over time. i dunno. ANYWAY, science and technology museums nowadays have basically zero research function; the exhibits are designed more or less solely for educating the layperson (and very frequently the layperson is assumed to be a child, which does honestly irritate me, as an adult who likes to go to science museums). the collections are still there in case someone does need some DNA from one of the preserved bird skins, but items from the collections that are exhibited typically exist in service of the exhibit's conceptual message, rather than the other way around.
meanwhile at art museums they kind of haven't moved on from the "here is my pile of weird shit" paradigm, except it's "here is my pile of Fine Art". as far as i can tell, the thing that curators (and donors!) care about above all is The Collection. what artists are represented in The Collection? rich fucks derive personal prestige from donating their shit to The Collection. in big art museums usually something like 3-5% of the collection is ever on exhibit -- and sometimes they rotate stuff from the vault in and out, but let's be real, only a fraction of an art museum's square footage is temporary exhibits. they're not going to take the scream off display when it's like the only reason anyone who's not a giant nerd ever visits the norwegian national museum of art. most of the stuff in the vault just sits in the vault forever. like -- art museum curators, my dudes, do you think the general public gives a SINGLE FUCK what's in The Collection that isn't on display? no!! but i guarantee you it will never occur, ever, to an art museum curator that they could print-to-scale high-res images of artworks that are NOT in The Collection in order to contextualize the art in an exhibit, because items that are not in The Collection functionally do not exist to them. (and of course there's the deaccessioning discourse -- tumblr collectively has some level of awareness that repatriation is A Whole Kettle of Worms but even just garden-variety selling off parts of The Collection is a huge hairy fucking deal. check out deaccessioning and its discontents; it's a banger read if you're into This Kind Of Thing.)
with the contents of The Collection foregrounded like this, what you wind up with is art museum exhibits where the exhibit's message is kind of downstream of what shit you've got in the collection. often the message is just "here is some art from [century] [location]", or, if someone felt like doing a little exhibit design one fine morning, "here is some art from [century] [location] which is interesting for [reason]". the displays are SOOOOO bad by science museum standards -- if you're lucky you get a little explanatory placard in tiny font relating the art to an art movement or to its historical context or to the artist's career. if you're unlucky you get artist name, date, and medium. fucker most of the people who visit your museum know Jack Shit about art history why are you doing them dirty like this
(if you don't get it you're just not Cultured enough. fuck you, we're the art museum!)
i think i've talked about this before on this blog but the best-exhibited art exhibit i've ever been to was actually at the boston museum of science, in this traveling leonardo da vinci exhibit where they'd done a bunch of historical reconstructions of inventions out of his notebooks, and that was the main Thing, but also they had a whole little exhibit devoted to the mona lisa. obviously they didn't even have the real fucking mona lisa, but they went into a lot of detail on like -- here's some X-ray and UV photos of it, and here's how art experts interpret them. here's a (photo of a) contemporary study of the finished painting, which we've cleaned the yellowed varnish off of, so you can see what the colors looked like before the varnish yellowed. here's why we can't clean the varnish off the actual painting (da vinci used multiple varnish layers and thinned paints to translucency with varnish to create the illusion of depth, which means we now can't remove the yellowed varnish without stripping paint).
even if you don't go into that level of depth about every painting (and how could you? there absolutely wouldn't be space), you could at least talk a little about, like, pigment availability -- pigment availability is an INCREDIBLY useful lens for looking at historical paintings and, unbelievably, never once have i seen an art museum exhibit discuss it (and i've been to a lot of art museums). you know how medieval european religious paintings often have funky skin tones? THEY HADN'T INVENTED CADMIUM PIGMENTS YET. for red pigments you had like... red ochre (a muted earth-based pigment, like all ochres and umbers), vermilion (ESPENSIVE), alizarin crimson (aka madder -- this is one of my favorite reds, but it's cool-toned and NOT good for mixing most skintones), carmine/cochineal (ALSO ESPENSIVE, and purple-ish so you wouldn't want to use it for skintones anyway), red lead/minium (cheaper than vermilion), indian red/various other iron oxide reds, and apparently fucking realgar? sure. whatever. what the hell was i talking about.
oh yeah -- anyway, i'd kill for an art exhibit that's just, like, one or two oil paintings from each century for six centuries, with sample palettes of the pigments they used. but no! if an art museum curator has to put in any level of effort beyond writing up a little placard and maybe a room-level text block, they'll literally keel over and die. dude, every piece of art was made in a material context for a social purpose! it's completely deranged to divorce it from its material context and only mention the social purpose insofar as it matters to art history the field. for god's sake half the time the placard doesn't even tell you if the thing was a commission or not. there's a lot to be said about edo period woodblock prints and mass culture driven by the growing merchant class! the met has a fuckton of edo period prints; they could get a hell of an exhibit out of that!
or, tying back to an earlier thread -- the detroit institute of arts has got a solid like eight picasso paintings. when i went, they were kind of just... hanging out in a room. fuck it, let's make this an exhibit! picasso's an artist who pretty famously had Periods, right? why don't you group the paintings by period, and if you've only got one or two (or even zero!) from a particular period, pad it out with some decent life-size prints so i can compare them and get a better sense for the overarching similarities? and then arrange them all in a timeline, with little summaries of what each Period was ~about~? that'd teach me a hell of a lot more about picasso -- but you'd have to admit you don't have Every Cool Painting Ever in The Collection, which is illegalé.
also thinking about the mit museum temporary exhibit i saw briefly (sorry, i was only there for like 10 minutes because i arrived early for a meeting and didn't get a chance to go through it super thoroughly) of a bunch of ship technical drawings from the Hart nautical collection. if you handed this shit to an art museum curator they'd just stick it on the wall and tell you to stand around and look at it until you Understood. so anyway the mit museum had this enormous room-sized diorama of various hull shapes and how they sat in the water and their benefits and drawbacks, placed below the relevant technical drawings.
tbh i think the main problem is that art museum people and science museum people are completely different sets of people, trained in completely different curatorial traditions. it would not occur to an art museum curator to do anything like this because they're probably from the ~art world~ -- maybe they have experience working at an art gallery, or working as an art buyer for a rich collector, neither of which is in any way pedagogical. nobody thinks an exhibit of historical clothing should work like a clothing store but it's fine when it's art, i guess?
also the experience of going to an art museum is pretty user-hostile, i have to say. there's never enough benches, and if you want a backrest, fuck you. fuck you if going up stairs is painful; use our shitty elevator in the corner that we begrudgingly have for wheelchair accessibility, if you can find it. fuck you if you can't see very well, and need to be closer to the art. fuck you if you need to hydrate or eat food regularly; go to our stupid little overpriced cafeteria, and fuck you if we don't actually sell any food you can eat. (obviously you don't want someone accidentally spilling a smoothie on the art, but there's no reason you couldn't provide little Safe For Eating Rooms where people could just duck in and monch a protein bar, except that then you couldn't sell them a $30 salad at the cafe.) fuck you if you're overwhelmed by noise in echoing rooms with hard surfaces and a lot of people in them. fuck you if you are TOO SHORT and so our overhead illumination generates BRIGHT REFLECTIONS ON THE SHINY VARNISH. we're the art museum! we don't give a shit!!!
I really liked your analysis on Rhaenyra and Laenor's dynamic for ep 6. Do you think that you could do one for ep 7? c:
Oh boy, you are trying to give me an aneurysm lol. Listen, I have a lot to say about this. So get some tea and have a seat, anon.
Let's start with the funeral.
Rhaenyra was looking for Laenor when she pulled Jacaerys aside, that much is certain, and I am painfully aware that they were both mourning their losses, as Jacaerys so tactfully put it /s
In response to Baela and Rhaena losing their mother:
[Jacaerys:] I have an equal claim to sympathy. We should be at Harrenhal, mourning Lord Lyonel and Ser Harwin.
Little fucking bastard.
If Rhaenyra and Laena were truly as close as some show watchers believe, do we truly think that Jacaerys would be so comfortable saying that openly? I think not.
Not to mention, that whole conversation between Rhaenyra and Jacaerys earns some iconic questionable looks from Alicent and Criston.
Moving on before I get off topic.
A few minutes later in the episode, you can actually hear Seasmoke crying out, which kind of alerts Daemon and Aemond that something is amiss, then the camera cuts to this.
A very distraught Laenor standing in the water (likely where his sister was buried) which brings up the question: If Rhaenyra was intent on keeping up appearances, why did she spend the last few minutes openly eye-fucking Daemon? Why didn't she continue her search for her husband who was prone to drinking? If they had such a close friendship as some of the fandom believes, her first thought would have been to ensure that he was all right. But... she didn't.
And it doesn't help the situation that Corlys has an outburst towards Ser Qarl to retrieve Laenor, but even when that does draw in attention, Rhaenyra doesn't even bother asking what happened. Instead, she continues eye-fucking Daemon while he's talking to Viserys.
And after Daemon leaves the balcony, she walks straight towards her children to send them to bed, and proceeds to follow Daemon. She didn't even bother waiting for Laenor to come back up and ask if he was okay or even offer him an ounce of comfort, which earns this look from Otto.
She... is a horrible and selfish friend.
Moving on, let's break down the conversation she had with Daemon about Laenor.
It begins with this:
[Rhaenyra]: Laenor has been restless for years, but now, he will be useless. Or worse. I know better than anyone that our marriage is a farce. But I at least make the effort to maintain appearances.
Did she? Clearly not, if Otto, Criston, and Alicent were all giving her the bombastic side eye. And that's not even mentioning the visible bastards she brought to Laena's funeral. Her lack of empathy towards Laenor was blatant during that entire funeral, and believe me, everyone fucking noticed.
[Rhaenyra:] We did try to conceive a child. We performed our duty as best we could. But to no avail.
Again, clearly not. Especially if we take into account the canonical age of Jacaerys and compare it to the date they wed. (Yes I am referencing book canon, but it still drives my point)
Rhaenyra and Laenor wed in 114 AC, and Jacaerys was born the same year.
I could understand if the boy was born like two, maybe three years after the wedding, but nope. In my opinion, I would have assumed that "performing your duty" would have meant being monogamous for at least a year to get it over with, but I digress. What's done is done.
And here is where we get to the root of the issue, and where she tells on herself a little bit.
[Rhaenyra:] There was no joy in it. I found that elsewhere. It felt good to be desired.
Well of course there wouldn't be any joy in it, he's a gay man, and you knew this when you agreed to marry him (mind you, when she had the full pick of the litter - a privilege that nobody else was granted.) However, there were several fucking ways that they could have attempted to conceive a child - hell, even Margaery had solutions to the situation with Renly. But clearly Rhaenyra wasn't as intelligent as she thought she was.
Now, glossing over the blatant disrespect towards her grieving husband and his dead sister by sleeping with Laena's widower, let's get to the aftermath of the shitshow between her and Alicent.
After she sends the children out to have a private word with Laenor the conversation goes like this:
[Laenor:] I should have been there. [Rhaenyra, begrudgingly:] Those should be our house words.
If you pay attention to Laenor's face after she says that, he looks like he doesn't want to deal with this, yet he stays, and proceeds to provide an explanation.
[Laenor:] I have fought dreadful enemies, but I could not defend my dear sister, far from home and in agony. I could not defend you... [Rhaenyra:] Sit down.
To me, this feels like he's attempting to gauge a semblance of understanding from Rhaenyra as to why he wasn't present during the climax of this episode. And believe it or not, it is VALID. As I have said in the previous analysis of episode 6, those children were NOT his obligation, and he was grieving his own flesh and blood.
However, Rhaenyra continued to act indifferent and dismissive to his loss, and proceeded to bring up her bastards as if that was the bigger problem. Not once did she ask how he was feeling this entire episode, which again, made me believe that they were never truly friends. (I'd wager IF they were, that friendship quickly crumbled after Joffrey Lonmouth was murdered, and I think it's safe to assume that Rhaenyra has behaved similarly to how she is behaving now.)
[Laenor:] I have failed you, Rhaenyra. Our marriage... I tried. Our boys... I do love them. Deeply. But I have not, mayhaps... loved them enough.
Now as Laenor is speaking, you can see the apathy she has so plainly displayed on her face while he is quite literally pleading with her yet again, so much that he has resorted to self-deprecating language in spite of the fact that he stayed by her side for ten straight years, playing his part as a loving husband and father, possibly being berated by other lords and ladies at court. He is not afforded the same protections that Rhaenyra has, and mind you, he was alone.
Laenor's entire family had been away from King's Landing, so he had to navigate this by himself, all while getting comments against his ability to sire children, and against his sexuality as so wonderfully displayed by Alicent. /s
[Alicent, Episode 6:] Do keep trying, Ser Laenor. Soon or late you'll have one that looks like you. [Alicent, Episode 7:] Where is Ser Laenor, I wonder? The boys' father? Perhaps he will have something to say in the matter... Entertaining his squires, I'll wager.
I fully believe if the Queen was comfortable saying this so openly, everyone else was more than comfortable with saying things like this to his face, too.
Now, back to the point, Rhaenyra continues the conversation with this:
[Rhaenyra:] I had hoped to bear your children. The few times we lay together. Things might've been different. [Laenor:] I hate the gods for making me as they did. [Rhaenyra:] I do not.
Hm. Are you sure about that, Rhaenyra? Because your dialogue with him in the previous episode had quite a few microaggressions against his homosexuality. But I digress.
[Rhaenyra:] You are an honourable man with a good heart. It's a rare thing.
Yet, she called him useless behind his back about twenty minutes ago, which tells me that she's being disingenuous, and Laenor seemed to catch it, too because he makes this face right after she says it.
[Laenor:] We made an arrangement all those years ago to do our duty, and yet explore happiness. [Rhaenyra:] *chuckles* [Laenor:] But there are times I think when these things cannot mutually exist.
Now I found that a bit interesting. She starts laughing at the little contract they drew up ten years ago. Now sure, this can be taken as a bit of levity, or it can be taken as her actually laughing at him in a condescending way. Pick your poison. However, given everything I've presented above, my opinion leans towards the latter.
Sure we can argue that he did smile with her, but is that a genuine smile, or is that a "I hope she's taking me seriously," smile? I'll let you decide.
Now to address his next statement, he was absolutely correct, and I'll wager that he probably had been thinking about this for a very long time. Maybe I'm reading into it, but his expression grows serious after he says it.
[Laenor:] Ser Qarl will return soon to the fighting in the Stepstones. But I recommit myself to you. And to strengthening our house as we prepare you for your ascension. I will raise our sons to be princes of the realm. You deserve better than what I have been. You deserve a husband. (emphasis mine)
And this is the final frame we have of Laenor before his death is staged. His entire expression is pleading.
This right here was a final cry for recognition in his longstanding efforts. His last words to her really drove the point home that he does want to try, despite the fact that he has been all along. Perhaps it's just me, but Laenor seems like he is actually on his last leg if he is going so far as to put himself down in an attempt to receive some semblance of acknowledgement from Rhaenyra in hopes that she wouldn't cast him aside like she has done these last few years.
Alicent’s relationships with her children can never be perfect and healthy because they’re objectively broken from their onset. And I’m so tired of seeing brain dead takes comparing the “superior” relationship Rhaenyra has with her kids to Alicent and her kids as some sort of gotcha.
Alicent’s exposure to motherhood isn’t on her terms in any conceivable way. Her children are the products of marital rape and coercion. They are conceived and born when she is a young teenage girl 15-18, well before she is ready to have them. They are born in quick succession with no opportunity for her to recover. And, they are from a man that not only does she not love but who neglects and belittles her.
All these factors severely damage Alicent’s ability to connect with her children in their infancy. And can you blame her given the circumstances?
She’s not ready to have them at all, so she doesn’t know how to properly mother them. And she likely resents them at least a bit in the early stages because they are the physical manifestation of not only her rape but the life she is trapped in. And that likely compounds with severe guilt because these are her babies, why doesn’t she feel the love and joy she’s supposed to?
And yet. She still loves and cares for them. She holds them as babies (despite being a baby herself) and dutifully cares for them even though she could simply dump them off with a nursemaid. She charges with a knife at Rhaenyra for them. She stands between them and a dragon from them. She betrays her closest companion of her childhood for them. She defies the king and their father for them.
I know that Alicent makes some crucial mistakes that ends up hurting her children. And I know that the scenes we see with Alicent and her kids often show her lack of connection to them. But despite the fact that her relationship to them can be nothing but fractured at the onset. There is so much passion and love and devotion she has for them.
These are not scenes of a woman who is a bad mother. These are scenes of a mother who adores her children and would do anything for them. But who can only love them roughly because she never had an opportunity to love them gently. Their very existence was never gentle for her and never fostered through love.
Alicent’s relationship with her kids may be broken. But it’s not her fault that it is. And no matter what there is love and it is her motivation. So stop acting like she is a bad mother when she’s fighting like hell to breed a relationship with them that is fostered in connection.
We need to go back to using sailing ships full time like immediately. Yes it would take longer to get places but the Aesthetic is unmatched
Like there is nothing sexier hthan this
„Are you for real(?) (…) there was a war! (…) which started immediately after Lucerys‘ death.“ if there was no war at the time of Lucerys‘ killing it wasn‘t a warcrime as War crimes can only be committed during an armed conflict qualified accordingly under international humanitarian law. (See link cited above)
It is literally in the name. The text says During NOT immediately preceding or causing.
Now the obvious point you seem to be making is an analogy to Pearl Harbour but the attack itself is usually qualified as a crime against peace under Section III of the 1907 Hague Convention, which defines the responsibility of all signatories as needing to engage in negotiation and issue a final ultimatum before declaring war,(with regards to Imperial Japan and Pearl Harbour the Charges in the Tokyo Trials counts 1-53 deal with crimes against peace with only the last teo counts dealing with warcrimes and crimes against humanity. ) see https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/NR/rdonlyres/A9B8696D-FF7E-4CF0-90B0-F47C4C2D9EAB/283891/Totanichapter_correctversion.pdf page 9 of pdf and 154 of book.
But the Green Council actually do offer an ultimatum, making that comparison null and void and I think IRL you would have some trouble convicting anyone on the Green Council of the crime of aggression/crimes against peace. In Response Rhaenyra issues a formal declaration of war, in the show she orders the Velaryon fleet to Blockade Kings Landing and shelters Rhaenys both of which constitutes a hostile act towards the Greens even before the Greens have time to do anything, giving a reasonable ground to declare that she was not negotiating in good faith.
„And wih his death the war of ravens came to an end the war of fire and blood began in earnest.“
Meaning: this is where hostilities proper start NOT where the war itself starts. War had been declared prior and it had been declared by the blacks, as I pointed out and cited in one of the points you left unadressed. Wars usually begin with a declaration of war not with immediate hostilities.
My friend you were the one to bring Alicents opinion on the matter into this. And even if you were correct (I don‘t believe you are) it does not exclude me from being correct as well. Her not valuing human life does not mean she considered herself and her faction not in a state of war.
Regarding Otto, yeah, that is literally what that quote means. As far as it being a war crime, see above.
I‘m very curious where you got that impression from, becuse we see the Greens seconds after then not at all for nearly two weeks. Otto bot bringing it up at Peace talks doesn‘t mean it isn‘t an important issue, just one that might be counter productive.
In fact Rhaenys not being offered a pardon might indicate them caring a bit more than you seem to think.
Calling an envoy, a soldier and a threat, is quite literally the dumbest thing you can say. They are basically postmen with diplomatic immunity. It really sums up the extent of intelligence I have come to expect from team green fans. Lucerys was innocent and he will keep being it, murdering him was a war crime + king slaying being a taboo.
You can take your stupid posts somewhere else. Him saying "I will not fight you" isn't a joke, he is representative of borros's enemy and his only Job is to take a letter and bring back an answer, if he joins in fighting he starts a war.....like aemond did.
the way i liked the thought of alicole as a ship but now that it's an alleged reality i could throw up. alicent and criston both are pledged to duty and care for each other in a platonic but intimate way, where they were there for each other at the other's worst and still supported each other. there is nothing they could write or add into the show that would make them having sex make any sense. and if that does happen, i fear for both characters but especially alicent bc of how the general audience already views her--but i feel like if this happens the show is just trying to make criston and alicent both huge jokes?? bc they already face so much scrutiny online and them having sex would just make it all so much worse.
i'm literally praying that these leaks aren't true because wtf. and then olivia described s2 in 5 words and one of them was "sexuality." i'm so afraid rn guys...
If he commited a war crime than there must have been a war. You kind of need one to have the other. Otherwise it would have been a „crime against peace“, but at a cursory analysis of the facts that does not seem to fit the bill either, and is very rarely used.
You are contradicting yourself.
Otto being there to prevent war from spreading does not negate war having broken out. It merely means that the Greens are willing to avoid further bloodshed. I will admit however that me calling Rhaenys‘ massacre of Non combattants (which according to our standards should have been protected from the hostilities) the first act of war, was somewhat debatable. It could just as well be regarded as an act of Terrorism.
In any case the Greens were justified acting as if at war, because the blacks did the same:
Her first act was to declare Ser Otto Hightower and the Dowager Queen Alicent as traitors and rebels. (G.R.R.Martin, Fire and Blood, Dublin 2018 this edition 2020 p. 408) (Highlights mine)
That is as formerly a declaration of war as we ever got. And it did not come from the Greens.
As with regards to what Alicent and Otto thought on the matter:
„Queen Alicent went pale when she heard what he had done crying „mother protect us all.“ Nor was Ser Otto pleased „You only lost one eye,“ he is reported to have said „how could you be so blind?““ (G.R.R.Martin, Fire and Blood, Dublin 2018 this edition 2020 p. 422) the word warcrime does not appear on the page once what does appear however is the term kinslayer, and that seems to be what Alicent is so horrified about, as no crime is so accursed in the eyes of both gods and men. Otto meanwhile seems to be of the Fouché-mindset „This is worse than a crime, it is a mistake.“ (Yes, I know the quote is sometimes attributed to Talleyrand or others)
And later we have this line from Alicent with regards to Lucerys‘ death:
„Bastard blood, shed at war“ (G.R.R.Martin, Fire and Blood, Dublin 2018 this edition 2020 p.483) (Highlights mine)
So in what capacity was he there then? Into which category does he fit? Was he trying to surrender? Was he trying to arrange an exchange of prisoners? and how was Aemond supposed to know that from what was spoken?
Calling an envoy, a soldier and a threat, is quite literally the dumbest thing you can say. They are basically postmen with diplomatic immunity. It really sums up the extent of intelligence I have come to expect from team green fans. Lucerys was innocent and he will keep being it, murdering him was a war crime + king slaying being a taboo.
You can take your stupid posts somewhere else. Him saying "I will not fight you" isn't a joke, he is representative of borros's enemy and his only Job is to take a letter and bring back an answer, if he joins in fighting he starts a war.....like aemond did.
Sorry my friend, but your mixing up roles, protections and purpose here. Lucerys was a messenger who should have been and was protected by guest right in neutral territory. Aemond did not attack him in Borros‘ hall, as Borros guaranteed for his safety and attacking him wouöd have been an affront to Lord Borros. He then proceeded to leave that protected space.
And at that point it is important to remember what his mission was. The group of people that you must not attack and I assume you are thinking of are parlamentarians. But they come in to main flavours
1. To negotiate an end to hostilies, either by offering a surrender of their own side or terms and conditions for a surrender by the opposition.
2. For humanitarian purposes, like exchanging prisoners, evacuating non-combattants, evacuating the wounded, in ancient times asking for permission to recover the dead after a defeat.
These are communications that need to take place even (or especially) during war time to avoid the war turning into a completely senseless slaughter of everyone that cannot end until one side is entirely killed off. And most crucially they do not harm any side but instead benefit both.
But Lucerys fits into neither category. He was not there to negotiate a surrender, as here had not been any hostilities between Rhaenyra and the Baratheons by that point and the humanitarian option doesn‘t make sense either. So even if we _weren‘t_ explicitly told we could very much infer what his purpose was: he was there to secure/raise an army for his mother. To make sure Borros Baratheon fulfilled the oaths his father had sworn to Rhaenyra. That means he was there in a military capacity, (as was Aemond btw.) and was a valid military target according to the rules of war. That is not to say he wasn‘t „innocent“ war is not just but he was certainly a valid target.
To illustrate that point further. It is a warcrime to shoot a soldier who leaves throws down his weapons, raises his hands above his head, waves a white hankerchief in the absence of an actual white flag and shouts „I surrender“ (actually that declaration is enough) even if he killed dozens or even hundreds of your friends, comrades or even family members, you are not allowed to kill him at that point. But a truck carrying ammunition to the battlefield you are allowed to destroy and kill the driver of, even if said driver is a seventeen year old fresh out of college, who was forced into service and never hurt a single living thing.
If you want to make the point that war had not broken out, I would argue that by that point blood had already been drawn by Rhaenys at the Drageon pit and even if the outbreak of further hostilities could still have been averted, his Graces Council was justified in operating in warlike conditions.
If you want a real world example of a somewhat similar situation in our world I encourage you to check out the Trent Affair during the American Civil War where to Confederate Diplomats where taken prisoner by the Union Navy vessel USS San Jacinto. It nearly ended in war between the US and Great Britain and was only averted by the release of the Envoys. This site here provides actual insight into british grievances. Note the conspicuous absence of „a Diplomat was taken prisoner“ as a complaint. The main issue is, that they were captured aboard a british vessel and british neutrality was therefor not sufficiently respected.
Regardless of our difference in opinion regarding the works of G.R.R.Martin and their HBO Adaptations, I hope you have a most pleasant day or night.
Best wishes.
Calling an envoy, a soldier and a threat, is quite literally the dumbest thing you can say. They are basically postmen with diplomatic immunity. It really sums up the extent of intelligence I have come to expect from team green fans. Lucerys was innocent and he will keep being it, murdering him was a war crime + king slaying being a taboo.
You can take your stupid posts somewhere else. Him saying "I will not fight you" isn't a joke, he is representative of borros's enemy and his only Job is to take a letter and bring back an answer, if he joins in fighting he starts a war.....like aemond did.
as expected, now that ep 1 with b&c will be aired in 2 weeks, people are getting weird.
please keep your "b&c wasn't that bad" shit takes out of the general tags <3 mind you, these are the same people that have been whining about "misogyny" for the last 2 years, but are now apparently ok with an innocent woman being tortured to the point of literally becoming a shell of her former self & a 6yo girl being threatened with rape.
and to all of the pro-b&c weirdos saying "bUt iT wAs aBoUt AeGoN", so 1. b&c is justified because aegon threw a party? 2. daemon also threw a party when his nephew and sister in law died, but y'all don't want to talk about that. 3. even if aegon was the one to kill luke, it still doesn't justify what daemon did to helaena and her kids - you're actually justifying a woman being punished for the crimes of her male relatives - and it doesn't matter if it's aegon or aemond.
Random question do you know of any team green fics? I’m tired of running into fics that are villainizing everyone on the green team while saying oh Daemon is a good father, Rhaenarya is so right and justified for putting her illegitimate children on the throne. Aemond is jumping ships to team black for some random niece character who also can do no wrong and has a great dragon. Alicent is a bad mother and Criston is an incel also apparently Daeron doesn’t exist. I don’t know man I’m at my wits end I have been looking through AO3 for some decent fics and so far I have only really found like three. Sansa is reincarnated as Heleana fic, a child between Rhea Royce and Daemon Targaryen is out for revenge for Rhea’s murder at the hands of Daemon, and Alicent’s kids have had enough of Viserys and Rhaenarya’s bullshit and are now focusing on gaining great PR from the common people and the lords by actually running the kingdom. These are the ones that I found and everything else has been disappointing I know it’s Fanfic and it’s a hobby so I should be grateful that there is something but I’m kinda desperate to find something that has more substance. Do you have any recommendations?
I completely understand your frustration and I can relate! Finding good fics for any team green member is so hard.
Here's some of the good ones I've found:
criston x alicent, smutty, one shot archiveofourown.org/works/42319941
criston x alicent, two chapters long, a bit angsty, a lot of yearning archiveofourown.org/works/42055596
aemond and alicent, one shot, very sweet archiveofourown.org/works/42198003
alicent x criston, one shot, a bit angsty, the ending is so so sweet between alicent's kids archiveofourown.org/works/42339219
aegon one shot, really angsty archiveofourown.org/works/42491748
aemond x baratheon oc, multi-chapter https://archiveofourown.org/works/42378888/chapters/106422750
sansa is reincarnated into helaena, multi chapter archiveofourown.org/works/42130989
starts off really sweet but gets dark once the dance begins. aemond x oc wherein oc is helaena's friend. archiveofourown.org/works/41724126
alicole, multi-chapter, criston being the father that stepped up https://archiveofourown.org/works/42570909
criston and aemond its so so 🥹🥹🥹🥹 https://archiveofourown.org/works/42715350
alicole, one shot, post aemond being maimed by like a day archiveofourown.org/works/42340896
the aemond x alys one shot that was promised archiveofourown.org/works/42662460
aemond x oc, multi chapter, oc is dornish she is disabled and fat. tw for fatphobia and ableism archiveofourown.org/works/42781746
pro team green, multi chapter. not sure where its going but im liking it so far archiveofourown.org/works/42777264
alicole modern au, tooth rotting fluff 🫶🏼 archiveofourown.org/works/42769806
I'll post more that I find and tag them as 'team green fics'
Now, can you send me the links to the other fics you mentioned please 👀👀
I'm gonna need these people to stop mixing the book with the show because frankly not everybody has read the book but we have watched the show which clearly shows Alicent as a victim who's just trying to keep her children and herself safe and also shows rhaenyra being the stupidest targaryen woman to ever live, but because y'all wanna keep trying to make rhaenyra the saint in the whole situation and act like she can't do any wrong, y'all bring up the book because y'all know that if y'all didn't you would have to be forced to face the fact that you're all wrong about rhaenyra and that she is literally the person that y'all want Alicent to be
This image shocks me immensely because of:
a) the horror and determination engraved on Alicent’s face
b) Heleana watching her mother defending (and holding onto) Aemond in the background.
I think that the incident at Driftmark had a different potency on each of Alicent’s kids, but especially upon Heleana it must have impressed the idea that “a mother fights for her child no matter what” and that she doesn’t stay silent.
I can only imagine how Heleana feels after B&C, but the sense of being unable to protect and stand up for her son must be devastating.
And further than that, Heleana must be repelled by the idea of being coerced and finally having chosen to sacrifice one of her own kids. She probably feels that she has failed as a mother. That unlike Alicent, she has no right to demand justice for Jaehaerys’ murder because she herself chose him over Maelor. Maybe she blames herself for not doing enough to save him (even if she offered up her own life instead of her children’s), and possibly compares her efforts to defend her children with Alicent’s defense of Aemond. In essence, she probably tragically feels that she offered up one of her children herself instead.
In any case, this is such a heartbreaking and unsettling position to be in and it makes the emotional and psychological toll she consequently suffered all the more unbearable, because even if she drew courage and strength from and tried to imitate her mother’s actions, nothing could have ever prepared her for this.
rewatching ep5 we light the way and the way the wedding vows are being said over this scene of criston attempting suicide and alicent saving him...the real union of the night being between them. in this episode they're finally disillusioned of the roles they've been playing. they realise they'd been lied to and used. and at the end of the episode, they are just raw mirrors of shame and naivety staring back at each other asking for help. one flesh, whatever may come
NEW PHOTO OF TEAM GREEN.
I might be having a brainfart here, but should Luke have been protected in the first place?
Parlamentarians, bearing some sort of white flag are protected but they tend to come in two flavours
1. to negotiate an immediate end to hostilities (usually involving the surrender of either party)
2. to negotiate for humanitarian measures (e.g. To evacuate the wounded or recover the dead)
But Luke‘s mission wasn‘t that. He left with the clear intention to return with an army for his mother to use. Either as additional bargaining weight or in war. He served the exact same strategic purpose as the ravens the Lannister host sent to Harrenhal durig the Battle by the Lakeshore, all of which were shot down by the Riverlanders without it being treated as anything particularly despicable.
Luke was and should have been protected by Guestright and the status of Storms End as neutral territory. But when he left, Aemond should have been well within his rights to engage him as an enemy combattant, because realistically that‘s what he was.
I am not saying Aemond should‘ve killed the little guy, but he would have been well within his rights to take him prisoner.
I might be completely wrong about this, but this thought just occured to me.
HotD Episode 10 reaction under the cut.
(These aren’t my initial ones since I forgot to do my initial comments, but yeah. I’ve also added the “boundless watches HotD” tag. I will be using that for season 2 block that and “boundless watches” if you don’t want my future opinions or to be spoiled!)
Rhaenyra you did nothing to earn it.
You are not perfect and your dad did diddly squat to prepare you.
Rhaenys… baby… you did start this war. What about all those people you killed?
Daemon did not look like he liked being called Prince
And Jace being a bad brother, knocking Luke down and being forceful. Brother of the year. Even Aegon didn’t push Aemond down. Actually the only time we saw Aegon and Aemond actively fight was when Aegon was trying to leave King’s Landing.
Really do think they are going to play up hot headed Jace the coming season.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if they had him man handle Baela in season 2 in his anger and frustration, mimicking his grandfather and Daemon. Like I don’t mean he’ll be as physical as Viserys or Daemon, I just mean he would act roughly.
And man… Rhaenyra refusing feminine help while delivering her baby… causing the death of her daughter. Carrying on the cycle her father started. Quite literally ripping the baby from her body and then mourning the child because she would not accept help. Her maids (or whatever they are meant to signify) were begging to help.
Also, people complaining about the Greens making a “show” of Jaehaerys’ death as though the Blacks did not do the same for baby Visenya’s. Gathering all who were there to the funeral and then having Rhaenyra crowned at her own child’s funeral. Like??? Not the time
Also, the Black Kingsguard twin bowing and doing his vow looking up at Daemon rather than at Rhaenyra’s feet.
Rhaenys, you chose a side as soon as you fled. Bend the freaking knee
Is Rhaenyra supposed to be queen of the Rhoynar yet? Isn’t that Dorne?
Lady, why isn’t your heir your cupbearer?? Or at least your husband’s betrothed? The supposed next queen?
Lady, House Baratheon has wanted someone of their blood on the throne for ages and there is no Baratheon blood in your boys, Rhaenyra. Stop pretending they do because that is what actively put Luke in danger later.
RHAENYRA YOU JUST HAD A TRAUMATIC MISCARRIAGE!!!!! WHY ARE YOU ON FREAKING DRAGONBACK?!?!?!? You were in so much pain with Joffrey, and could barely walk?!?!?!?
All of Rhaenyra’s kids are given good options and positions if they had accepted Aegon’s terms.
What would the Green kids have gotten had Rhaenyra been made queen? What positions? What holdings?
Rhaenyra… sweetie… why do you think Otto owes you any loyalty? You made him lose his job when you lied to your father, who knew full well you lied.
And that stupid page was pointless.
Why not have Alicent write a letter??? Or go herself????
Also??? Why didn’t Rhaenyra offer any terms in return for the Greens to contemplate?
Rhaenys, why are you still there? Like you are doing nothing
Why is Rhaenyra shocked that Daemon doesn’t know? Daemon was only informally the heir? Viserys wouldn’t have shared the dream with Daemon because he was actively trying for a son.
And the stupid abuse plot that will no doubt be used to make it so Rhaenyra does not have to be held accountable for her actions. “Oh, she’s being abused so she can’t publically condemn Daemon’s actions”
It actually would have made more sense if Alicent had written a letter saying Viserys had shared his dreams with Alicent and said that Aegon must carry on his dream. That would have made more sense for why Rhaenyra was being hesitant because she might think that Viserys shared Aegon’s dream with Alicent as well as the SoIaF, and with Daemon not knowing, would have given Rhaenyra pause on staking her claim to the throne. Then, her going to war after Luke, would have made it more of her active choice against what she believes her father would have wanted. It would have been a good dilemma or her end.
Corlys… you have been passed out, how did you know Viserys died but not that your brother died?
Corlys, you should now be thinking Daemon is the reason your daughter is dead, your son was murdered, as was your brother. Like???
And Corlys? Even if you wanted to stay neutral, Daemon sure as heck would not allow you to.
Jace, Luke, and Joffrey were given the chance of being heir to both Driftmark and Dragonstone. They wouldn’t be left with nothing, nor would they seemingly be placed in any danger. I would argue Aegon the Younger and Viserys would be the one with some danger as they would have been at the Red Keep. “Aegon” offered that. They would have lived, your grandchildren would have been fine.
Yeah. Where is Daemon?
They swore oaths when it was either you or Daemon. Your father should have had them all rewear to you after his son was born and survived.
Love that the only people not allowed to have revenge is House Velaryon, the racially Black house.
AND AGAIN, RHAENYS ALREADY PARTICIPATED IN AN ACT OF AGGRESSION!
I love how they are only focusing on House Hightower, as though the entire Reach is not really freaking important too.
Why does Baela not go with Luke? She has actual Baratheon blood? Why does Baela not go at all?
Jace is like “we have dragons” but only Jace and Luke are sent? What about Baela?!? She can apparently ride and fight on dragonback next season!
Rhaenyra? Why are you having them swear to the Seven? Those oaths mean nothing since they don’t seem to hold to that Faith! And besides! Jace is going North! Where they hold to the Old Gods anyway!
Also, why the heck does Rhaenys not go????????? She’s more closely related to the Baratheons even if Luke was related to them!
“He’ll be honored to host the Prince of the realm” when have you ever spent any time playing up the Baratheon connection? Borros’ daughters could have served as companions to Baela and Rhaena! Borros’ heir would have been a girl seemingly and you could have offered to foster her as a female heir yourself Rhaenyra.
I feel like it would have made more sense for Daemon to have taken Rhaena to see if she could claim a dragon rather than him stupidly singing for a reason we are just not given in the show.
Luke, why would you not leave as soon as you saw Vhagar?????
Like, you KNOW Aemond has a beef with you and the only reason there was no retaliation is because someone else was there to stick up for you
Also… you just had a letter. You could have had it passed on and then left!
Also… the fact that Rhaenyra and Rhaenys are seemingly unaware that Borros can’t read is astounding.
“I will not fight you.” If I were Aemond, I would have said “why, because you do not have three to help you fight me?”
Luke hasn’t even flown in battle and I assume he hasn’t flown in a storm either. Like? Why not request time to stay and talk things out? Hear more of a possible offer? Hold him hostage for the king you now apparently serve? That would have been the smart thing to do
Also, Luke drew his sword, so does that not mean he’s no longer bound to be protected as a messenger?
While Arrax did so without Luke’s command, once more, it is the Blacks that incite the first physical act of violence. Rhaena or Baela punching Aemond first. Jace punching Aemond first when he didn’t like what Aemond was saying. Rhaenys escaping on dragonback instead of just fleeing and killing multiple people in the process. Arrax breathing fire on Vhagar.
And love (*sarcastic*) how the Greens are made to feel bad when they retaliate to aggression they did not necessarily start (although Aemond is fully at fault for being the one to set out after Luke and Arrax)
Great final shot of Rhaenyra? But I honestly don’t feel like it was a strong end to the season.
Bonus for next season:
I hate the whole “eye for an eye; a son for a son” thing because there was never an eye for an eye.
I don't know about y'all but I find it very funny and a bit satisfying that despite all the anti-feminism and conservatism and pro-patriarchy accusations Alicent was thrown, so many people of color and queer folks (and other definitely radically left-leaning people) still watched hotd and rallied behind her and flock together to defend her (despite being accused of being pro-conservatism ourselves in doing so).
And I wonder... Why is that? What nerve did Alicent touch that make us so protective of her, of her story and point of view?
"Uhm hair colour is not proof of the boys parentage, it's not that important of a detail."
EXCUSE ME FRIENDS NED STARK WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO EXPLAIN TO YOU THE PLOT OF A GAME OF THRONES