Yep! That's Because It's Not An Actual Argument Or Discussion. It's People Trying To Silence Trans Men

“transandrophobia is the belief that trans women oppress trans men—” NO IT’S THE BELIEF THAT CIS PEOPLE OPPRESS US. WE ARE OPPRESSED BY CISGENDERED PEOPLE. WE ARE TARGETED BY CIS MEN AND CIS WOMEN. LITERALLY WHAT ARE YOU NOT GETTING. WHAT’S NOT CLICKING. YOU ARE A TERF TRYING TO DIVIDE US AND YOU WILL NEVER WIN.

youo know on this website i see ppl post things about other trans people that are borderline indistinguishable from anti trans threads/boards or kiwifarms. idk how to tell you this but idrc if u think someone is at a 'cringey' stage in their transition or they annoy u. that shits straight up evil. ur doing the opps work for them

I hope it's okay for me to send this ask-

I just kinda generally wanted to talk about how I ended up kinda coming to terms with exclusionists existing, and yet managing to just pay them no mind. The first time I met an exclusionist was, surprisingly enough, in real life. This one was all about denying the need for the pansexual label, as well as a very strong hatred for ace people. I really don't wanna get in detail, but it was my first time meeting someone who had so much vitriol for other people within the community. It was a pretty important part of his personality, truthfully.

Then, over time, it kinda became obvious to me that he was kinda doing it as an attempt to... Redirect the attention elsewhere? He had done a lot of harm to other people, in ways that he couldn't really argue well about (not wanna get into detail, but there was some grooming involved). Part of how he tried to cover that up was just to find another topic to be loud about, rallying people together in a specific type of hatred and becoming a big name within the community through his stupid little war against ace and pan people. When you tried to kinda bring up that he had done some really bad stuff that he wasn't even sorry about, he'd just claim you were trying to undermine his point.

Thankfully, over time, people did end up realizing he was pretty abusive, and neither ace nor pan exclusionism stuck around much within the community, and he eventually lost his power and voice. And it kinda gave me the perspective that, well. Of course not all exclusionists (of any kind- let it be against ace folk, transmasc folk, etc) are necessarily doing it as a redirection thing, but a lot of them are. You can quite literally prove some of the current transmasc hating people on this site having called for the death of minorities or having sent death threats to other folk, but if you do bring it up, they will often just try to redirect any accusation with "you are doing this because you [hate this group]" or "you are doing this because you're against [this one specific ideology]"

All in all, people who spend most of their time obsessively hating some other people who don't pose any major danger to them tend to just not be worth the time. Seeing exclusionist movements come and go, seeing the people leading them lose their relevancy once people come up to terms with the exclusionism being stupid, it's all reassuring. This will also pass. I hope that the few loud voices that wanna open massive divides between trans folk will, sooner than later, fall into the same irrelevancy than those that came before them have fallen into.

this is reassuring, thank you for this ask anon

i just remembered that back in elementary and high school, i was friends with a lot of guys and most of them were boy scouts. we were such a tight knit group that it sucked that i was getting left out of things that they wanted me to be a part of. these were all cishet identifying boys at the time, and because i was expressing that i wished i could be in scouts with them, they actually went to their scout leader on my behalf to ask if i could be let in even though i was a "girl". they didn't see me as any different than them. they didn't understand why i couldn't be a part of it.

if you ask me, that's all the proof anyone needs that transphobia & misogyny are learned, not innate. these boys were not old enough to have it drilled into their head at "girls" can't do things that boys "can". they were too young to understand that a "girl" wanting to be masc and seen as a boy could ever be a "bad thing". they saw me as one of the boys. it was never questioned. i actually visited all of these friends after i transitioned and started T and none of them had issues.

they always saw me as one of the boys, to the point of fighting on my behalf to try to get me accepted into their boyscout troop. transphobia, misogyny, and all of these other forms of hatred are learned. not innate. don't let anyone brainwash you into thinking that boys and men are inherently hateful. they're not

Friendly reminder that you don’t owe anyone here a debate.

Person thinks trans men can’t reclaim “tranny”?

Wow, that’s stupid. Block ‘em.

Some asshole believes that trans men are uniquely misogynistic or privileged or whatever fun discourse buzzword they’re using today?

Their prejudice is not your problem. Block ‘em.

Random blogger says trans men don’t experience (insert common form of transphobia here)?

Don’t try to prove them wrong by sharing details of your trauma. Just block ‘em.

The worst offenders aren’t going to change. They’re not going to listen to you, or engage in a good-faith debate. Speaking from experience, showing them any vulnerability will just result in it being used against you.

It’s sad, but these people are stuck in a discourse tar-pit that makes them see their trans siblings as enemies. They have to pull themselves out; they won’t hear a word you say, not when they’ve already made up their minds about you.

Don’t give them a platform. Don’t waste your time and energy on bad-faith arguments. Spend it with people who don’t make misunderstanding you their favorite hobby.

And remember:

Make sure you've blocked fite-club/rittz. Like half of the inane discourse yapping goes away when you do, it's great.

pride includes trans men and transmascs btw

trans men and transmascs deserve to be proud of their manhood and masculinity

this is not up for debate

I really wish I could talk transfeminism to people in real life but I start saying stuff like "Men oppress women" really is too simplistic, and wrong. and, The patriarchy oppresses both men and women, and Cis men are rewarded for upholding It via misogyny, but Individual men aren't the patriarchy. people start looking at me funny

If you want people in the transandrophobia tag to post less about inter community issues, you have two options:

1. Make your own posts about non-community issues

2. Speak up when other queer people: make fun of trans men and trans mascs, deny transandrophobia, say one type of trans person has it worse than all other trans people, erase/leave out/forget trans men and mascs in their activism, deny the lived experiences of trans men and mascs

It stings worse when betrayal comes from someone you thought was an ally, so I’m really not surprised a lot of posts about transandrophobia are talking about inter community issues.

If you claim to support trans rights, but deny transandrophobia, you don't actually support trans rights any more than a TERF supports trans rights.