I’ve Been Mulling Over The Prospit/Derse Dreamer Distinction And I Think It Primarily Boils Down To

Do you do sessions analysis? If so, could you tell me how a session with a Page of Hope, Knight of Heart, Rogue of Space and Mage of Time woule go?

I don’t really do that; sorry. There are way too many variables and not enough information for me to be able to analyze sessions, especially if I’m going by player titles alone.

All I can really tell is that this session is theoretically viable, since it has a Space and Time player.

I'm wondering do u still think that john will retcon his retcon due to these recent event of upd8s?

I’m becoming increasingly doubtful of the double retcon theory as the comic has progressed. If only because we’re running out of time, and also it seems that a lot of character development has happened since then.

However, there’s so much foreshadowing for it that NEEDS to be cashed in somehow. Some of the evidence for a double retcon will need to be otherwise addressed if it ends up NOT happening, such as Doc Scratch’s mastery of the Alpha Timeline. So I’d still like to believe it will happen on some level? And it’s still possible that it could happen. But I really don’t know anymore. We’ll just have to see.

Classes Chart

Here's a chart of all the classes, both Standard and Master.

My goal was to define, describe, and categorize them as efficiently and accurately as possible, based on my understanding of the classes. I based as much as I could on canon information, while inferring the rest.

(For clarity, "–" denotes Active, and "+" denotes Passive.)

(Note: If chart looks distorted/shrunken, right-click and View Image.)

Special thanks to bladekindeyewear, dahniwitchoflight, infinitywhale and probably others for their insight and information, helping me understand the classes and aspects. I couldn't have made this chart without them.

Some clarification: I am aware Hussie essentially said any gender can have any class (i.e. female Princes). I don’t like the idea of gendered classes, anyway, and I think it’s needlessly restrictive, not to mention sexist and stereotyping.

However, my chart reflects what’s been depicted in comic, based on what Calliope states, looking at the characters’ classes and gender distribution, and then making some inferences based on Hussie’s penchant for balance and based on class names and god tier outfit designs.

Terezi is NOT going to have Vriska’s death retconned

Yes, Terezi regrets killing her, but more significantly, she realizes she was cornered into that choice and wonders, had she been thinking clearly and known all the facts, had any thoughts or circumstances changed, would there have been more options? Would killing Vriska be the only way to stop her?

GC: 1 K33P WOND3R1NG 1F TH3R3 W4S 4NOTH3R W4Y GC: SOM3TH1NG OTH3R TH4N L3TT1NG H3R GO, OR K1LL1NG H3R

GC: WH3N 1 CONFRONT3D H3R, 4ND 1T W4S T1M3 TO M4K3 UP MY M1ND GC: 1 THOUGHT 1 H4D 1T 4LL F1GUR3D OUT, L1K3 TH1S W4S WH4T 1 H4D TO DO. NOT JUST TO S4V3 3V3RYBODY, BUT 4S SOM3 STUP1D R1T3 OF P4SS4G3 OR SOM3TH1NG? GC: TH3N 1T C4M3 T1M3 TO DO 1T, 4ND 1T W4S 4LL H4PP3N1NG SO F4ST... GC: 4ND 1 FORC3D MY OWN H4ND. 1 COULD 31TH3R L3T 3V3RYON3 D13 1N ON3 R34L1TY, OR K1LL 4 FR13ND 1N 4NOTH3R GC: 4ND 1 T3LL MYS3LF THOS3 W3R3 TH3 ONLY TWO VORT1C3S 1 S4W... GC: BUT TH3N, 1 W4S TH3 ON3 WHO M4D3 TH3 S3R13S OF D3C1S1ONS WH1CH L3D UP TO TH4T CHO1C3, 4ND COMPL3T3LY P41NT3D TH3 OPT1ONS 1NTO TH4T CORN3R

TEREZI: 4ND NOW 1T F33LS L1K3 TH3 ONLY "H3RO1C" TH1NG 1 3V3R D1D W1TH THOS3 POW3RS TEREZI: W4S US3 TH3M TO JUST1FY K1LL1NG MY FR13ND [...] TEREZI: 4ND WH4TS WORS3 1S TEREZI: TO TH1S D4Y, 1M ST1LL NOT 3V3N TOT4LLY SUR3 1F 1T W4S N3C3SS4RY [...] KARKAT: WELL, YEAH. OF COURSE IT WAS NECESSARY. KARKAT: EVEN IF IT WASN'T THE MORALLY RIGHT CHOICE OR WHATEVER, IT WAS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING THAT HAD TO HAPPEN. [...] KARKAT: IT'S SIMPLE. IF YOU HADN'T KILLED HER, YOU WOULD HAVE WITHERED AWAY IN A DOOMED TIMELINE.

Maybe, in the end, these retcons reinforce to Terezi that indeed, killing Vriska is the only viable option, and she makes that decision with a clear mind and of her own accord—not one limited by Rage. By knowing Vriska is responsible for Tavros' death and not all the others, as well as no longer viewing their confrontation as a JUST1C3 role-playing game of sorts, Terezi will no longer have lingering doubts and regrets, and instead embrace her role as a Seer of Mind.

If the retcons are geared toward this intent, they wouldn't so much undo events as undo Terezi's outlook and attitude—her depression,  self-hatred, and rejection of her role. Really, only events post-Cascade and events revolving around Terezi would change. And there weren't even that many of those during the meteor trip.

But here's the main reason nothing significant will change pre-Cascade: Doc Scratch's narration.

The Seer of Mind had challenged the Thief of Light to a simple game of chance. If the result was the undamaged side, the Thief would agree to stay. If not, she would "go." [...] The actual result was trivial; it was a constant across all timelines. [...] The Thief used her abilities to steal the fortune of her opponent, and forced the flip to yield what she regarded as the most favorable outcome. The Seer anticipated this move, correctly.

I've never much enjoyed navigating the vortices of alternative possibility. The path which alone has my absolute mastery is the alpha timeline, a continuum I define as that which boasts exclusive rights both to my birth and to my death, two circumstantially simultaneous events. Any divergence from this path to my knowing will taper into blackness like rotting roots.

(Bold emphasis mine.)

Why is this information significant? The Alpha Timeline seems to have already taken John's retcons into consideration. So far, all events as known from Caliborn's perspective, like John dying in an explosion and his "ghost" returning periodically to haunt him, seem to be accurate post-retcon information. (Of course, this is also assuming the Jade and Jane hanging out with Calliope are from the same and Alpha timeline.)

If retcons don't change or contradict Caliborn's knowledge, I would think this concept would extend to Doc Scratch, as well, considering his omniscience and influence. Undoing Vriska's death would dramatically change his story.

Not to mention, it would change this:

But it is the desecration of a priceless timepiece where I must draw the line. I'm afraid I must now insist that you take your beating quite personally.

Events that directly affect and influence Doc Scratch, Spades Slick, and the destruction of the universe leading to the creation of the Green Sun.

The one way events could change is if Doc Scratch is playing a rare prank. If that is the case, Terezi doesn't need to kill Vriska, but someone else does in order for the god tier clock-related events to occur. An escaped Gamzee would be the likely culprit.

Regardless, Vriska still has to die Justly, or too many crucial events change.

Thoughts and musings on the upcoming battle

Reflection on the 5/13/15 update with potential strategies, considerations, and predictions.

The best team to face the Becs would ironically be the "least important/effective" characters: Tavros, Jaspers, and the Mayor---plus Jade and GCat.

Jaspers could be a great distraction for them because cat. Actually, there’s probably even two of them around.

Tavros could use his communing abilities to control the Becs, plus potentially GCat to use as a distraction.

The Mayor would probably be safe because PM is his friend. He’s destined to face Bec Noir, anyway.

Jade, either asleep or awake, would occupy the Becs' attention, be safe from them (and protected by them!), and has the same First Guardian abilities.

As long as the Condesce is sufficiently distracted, they'd all be good.

Jack English vs. Dirk, Dave, and possibly surprise Davesprite would make a nice callback to when Bro and Davesprite fought against Jack on LOWAS. Remember how the final prototyping gave him First Guardian powers, which turned the tide of battle?

What if that happens with Jack English, such as obtaining the golden cuestaff and that very same ring? LOWAS (I assume it’s there now) is one of the closest planets to Jack English, too, so the battle could occur in the very same spot!

If Davesprite is around, he risks being influenced by the Condesce like Jade, since he’s part bird.

The idea of Karkat facing his old frienemy Spades Slick is delicious. If anyone can convince Slick to form an alliance, it's Karkat.

Any of the trolls facing the Condesce is probably dangerous because of her manipulation powers. That mostly just leaves the kids.

Nannasprite's probably around. She'd be great as part of the healing team, since she's alt!Jane and has healing abilities, too.

If there’s an extra Nannasprite who tagged along on LOWAS, even better.

Remember Casey's undead army on LOMAX? That has potential to show up again, too. If the Condesce uses her powers to control them, BAD NEWS. If not, allies ahoy! I imagine the golden battleship is still there, too, since Aranea wasn't around to move it; they could use that, as well.

During the fracas, Gamzee will probably escape. (Don't turn your back on the body!) Plus, he most certainly will travel back in time to at least give Lil Cal to CD to create Jack English in the first place. That has to happen somehow, since Vriska apparently didn’t do it. Gamzee might also prototype the final sprite. Who knows what else he'll do?

Vriska is leaving, yes. My guess is to raise the Cherubs, but we really don't know. (She's already hijacked Gamzee's role for practically everything else, plus she has other Gamzee parallels.) What if she returns in time to give the final blow to the Condesce, being the one to officially kill her? It'd mirror her dealing the final blow to the Black King of their session, plus... She'd likely inherit Lord English's curse. Lord English has already been manipulating her and using her to his advantage anyway; the curse would just make it official.

This is not the first time a Jack has lost an arm to a caliginous queen.

My interpretation is that Witches are active and Heirs are passive Magician classes, which involves changing, manipulating, and controlling their aspects.

Likewise, Maids are active and Sylphs passive Healer classes, which involves healing, creating, and (re)generating their aspects.

As far as “giving” goes, that’s something Rogues already do. Thieves technically can give, too, as I see Thieves and Rogues as classes that involve aspect allocation and redistribution, but Thieves are mostly inclined to take, while Rogues are inclined to give or share.

For now, I’ll link some of my related posts:

John the Wizard touches upon the Witch/Heir connection with magic.

Healer Classes: Maids, Sylphs, and Revival describes the Maid/Sylph connection with healing.

Classes Chart is my take on the class meanings, pairings, etc.

Useful Classpect Tools and Resources has links to more information from others (including @dahniwitchoflight​).

It’s not much, hopefully it'll provide some insight.

Homestuck theory: Heirs are the “passive giving” class.

IE: Heirs are diametrically opposed to Thieves: they give their aspect and inspire others to do the same.

John:

All evidence that Breath/Breeze is connected to delivery comes from John, Tavros has flags, but not the mailbox kind.

John uses the Breeze and parcel pyxis to invite giving through breath (note that I’m also assuming that Equius and Mituna had and aspect driven parcel system on their planets).

Upon receiving the ultimate freedom (retcon zaps are said by many to mean breath) and being faced with drowning in oil, John instead zaps the oil away (gives his breath) in order to take on the responsibility of completing his personal quest (in which he also gives the fireflys freedom). It’s noted by Jade that he does this instead of zapping away himself, something which I think is a defining moment for his character.

John fits the messianic archetype, so it would make sense if he would give spirit and freedom in return for responsibility, friendship and warrior spirit (Blood).

Is “giving spirit” something the natural leader does? If so, Roxy and Kanaya talking about John being such a great motivational leader that he makes others better leaders at the same time counts as evidence towards John giving and inviting the giving of Breath.

John takes on warrior spirit when doing the windy thing? This is a bit of a shaky one I admit, but the thing is we often see John sort of “not taking things seriously” and making unnecessary jokes and observations, as if the graveness of his situation hasn’t really set in for him. The only time he comes down off this cloud is when he’s airbending.

When John decides to not go through the gate and is instead pulled back down to earth (in a moment which is cited to show the Breath/Blood dichotomy) thanks to alt Dave’s influence, alt Dave gets wings (as in John gave him freedom/Breath).

Equius:

In this page Calliope mentions that people with opposite classpects can have similar abilities, so Equius might possibly have Thief of Light powers (as in, if this theory is correct Equius should be able to theoretically steal light from everyone by giving them void).

So while Vriska steals the spot-light (ie: relevance, ie: Light) by creating Bec noir, Equius has become part of the most important character in homestuck: Lil'cal, and gives the alpha kids a lack of showdown (bear in mind though that Equius does this to help the humans, whereas Vriska does it to stroke her ego, fitting what we know about passive classes working for the team and active classes working for themselves). 

Vriska is also accused of stealing light in the form of agency when she controls trolls, and Equius controls Nepeta’s actions in some respect at the start of Hivebent and also stops her from joining the red team (again because he believes it’s in her best interests). Deceiving his team-mates and becoming the blue team leader counts as giving lies and also another count of stealing relevance.

Equius also gives fakeness in the form of Vriskas arm, Aradia’s body, and Tavros’s legs. Also as Lil'cal he arguably teaches Dirk how to build robots and therefore invites the giving of fakeness?

Equius is probably also the reason the ring of void moved from the human’s alpha session to caliborn’s, ie: he delivered void. 

Mituna: 

I don’t actually have much to say about Mituna, as we don’t know much about him or his arc. Although…don’t you think it’s funny that the Thief and Heir of both troll sessions had aspect pairs that we pretty much know where opposites? 

The Ψiioniic though, fits this theory pretty well. He gives/delivers the ship using his death, and often very gave death to aliens in the form of the Condesce (and invites her to give death).

Medieval connection:

The Heir class represents a medieval aristocrat passively giving away all their inherited fortune. Inheritace itself is them inviting giving.

what say you that Kanaya's and Karkat's visit to Echidna will still end up be the same choice being asked of them? Jade's quest require resolution post-scratch, John's quest ended up factoring things that APPEAR to be outside sburb's programming (retcon powers), so perhaps Echidna of the troll session was asking a task of Kanaya that's only resolved across 3 sessions(!) so it appeared impossible to her?

Could be. Echidna may very well give both Kanaya and Karkat a second chance to rectify their previous actions. Kanaya, the same “impossible” task as before, which she may accept this time. Karkat, the opportunity to set right his previous mistake of rushing the frog breeding which resulted in the kids’ cancerous universe. (Which wasn’t entirely his fault, but he certainly blames himself for it.)

Maybe Kanaya and Karkat will sendificate the Genesis Frog to Jade in the past. (That still needs to be resolved.) Maybe they’ll breed a second Genesis Frog, so there will be one that becomes the Cherubs’ universe and another that becomes a universe for a new instance of Paradox Space. 

If there ends up being two Genesis Frogs, maybe one of these frogs is the “perfect” one from the Trolls’ session that they never found and bred. Echidna could certainly help them with that, and it could easily relate to an “impossible” task that would also be resolved across multiple sessions.

The events of this update are taking place within one of Skaia’s vision clouds:

I bet Alt!Calliope is the one witnessing it!

I highly doubt Vriska was involved with that, considering this is what she said about Jack English:

VRISKA: This is the Jack n8tive to the session we're in now. VRISKA: Somehow he got possessed 8y, or like, INFUSED with...? Lord English's crazy, ridiculously destructive magical energy. VRISKA: I have no idea why or how this happened, how it's theoretically even possi8le, or why we should actually care. VRISKA: The fact of the matter is, it happened, and now we have to deal with this hideous rain8ow-eyed monstrosity.

She doesn’t seem to know or care about it. Which implies it was still Gamzee, because, well, who else?

So two-thirds of LOTAK was destroyed when Jack English’s head exploded and formed a black hole.

Dave, Terezi, and a decapitated Dirk all made it off the planet, thanks to Dave’s Time powers. But you know who almost certainly was still on LOTAK at the time?

Gamzee has not had the opportunity to go back in time and give Lil Cal to Jack to create Jack English in the first place. If Gamzee is dead, this is a paradox.