It's Absolutely Heart Breaking.

Thinking about the badeline boss fight and how it manifested out of fear rather than pure anger. How Badeline was convinced that Madeline’s goal was to leave her to die on the mountain and go home feeling empty and worthless and she was really was just trying to help her but she could see that she was only damaging madeline in the long run and Madeline only saw an enemy in Badeline and that fear of abandonment is what drives Badeline to lash out and turn into a monster and make the environment SO hostile and the music is powerful and erratic which reflects Badeline’s hostile fear but Madeline KEEPS fighting and Badeline doesn’t know what to do but keep digging deeper and deeper into the cave as the environment grows darker and more wild reflecting the chaotic nature of Badeline’s true fear until suddenly she stops and she is shocked to discover that Madeline was just trying to help her all along and despite the defeat they come together and make each other that much more powerful PLUS the fact that the chapter is called “Reflection” which is a play on words that both reinforces the mirror motif of the game AND meaning to look back on oneself and their choices and feelings and and aAND

smouldering butterfly's are just naturally drawn to any sort of fire, and can be found around pretty much any open flame in the game. Volcano manor is going to be a really popular spot for them just by proxy of how hot it is there.

The only butterfly that's really directly connected to the demigod they represent is the aeonian butterflys, which are said to come directly from Malenia. The Nascent and Smouldering butterfly's symbolize Miquella and Melina respectively but aren't connected to them in any deeper way.

Even with the recent developments with Messmer, I personally still believe that the smouldering butterfly is supposed to represent Melina. The main reason is because of the butterfly's main use as kindling.

Messmer might have a lot of fire stuff going on, but Melina embodies the butterfly much more. Not only was she seemingly born burned and bodiless, much like the smouldering butterfly is born eternally burning, but she also acts as kindling to burn the erdtree in a similar way the butterfly does for crafting items.

The butterfly's represent the main curses of all 3 of the youngest siblings. Malenia's being rotted, Miquella's appearing eternally young and Melina's being burned and inevitably used as kindling.

I personally don't see the connection to Messmer other than the fact that they both share fire motifs. And even then, he's presumably not a part of Malenia and Miquella's sibling group as he's likely one of the oldest demigods, so it wouldn't make too much sense for him to be the third butterfly in the trinity.

Honestly I’m surprised by the amount of people who think Mohg’s character was at all reduced by the DLC— if anything, the introduction of a character like Ansbach and the reveal that he was bewitched adds a lot to his story.

I wonder if there’s any correlation between those who believe his character was taken away from and those who very staunchly believed that he kidnapped Miquella all on his own? Because in my personal experience, I’m someone who always thought it was more likely that it was either a mutual agreement or manipulation + bewitchment on Miquella’s end rather than kidnapping— otherwise, there’s a lot going on in terms of the environment and story details that just don’t make sense (IE; why is nobody at the Haligtree concerned about there being a kidnapping, and are simply waiting for Miquella to come back)! And also, since GRRM has a quote discussing how he’s not fond of the “here’s the good guys, they dress in white and look pretty while the bad guys dress in black and are ugly” trope, I would’ve been more shocked if that was played straight and it WAS a kidnapping.

Another thing, I fell in love with his character before I knew anything about his involvement with Miquella. Varré’s quest, the subtle buildup of his presence you see throughout the world of the game and the characterization it provides! As soon as I saw the Bloodroses for the first time, I knew he was going to be a favorite of mine. They alone clue us in on so much about him as a character, painting this mysterious Lord of Blood as a romantic, but morbid figure.

He has so much character without Miquella, he has a fully fleshed out backstory that I can’t help but to adore. Then, the DLC comes in and makes you confront any pre-conceived notions of what Mohgwyn was like prior to Miquella, it makes you ask what this blood cult was like before it got extra bloody, it makes you ask where this love for Miquella came from, and so on. I personally subscribe to “it was a combination of genuine manipulation from Miq’s end along with bewitchment— which played horribly well with Mohg’s idea of and need for love”, but there’s so many ways you can go about it! So many fun possibilities to explore that add further depth to these characters and their relationship!

So I find it surprising as hell that people would think the DLC took anything away from his character, when it really just fleshed him out further.

One small part of elden ring I find really interesting is Millicent's prosthesis and how you go about getting it.

I find it incredibly interesting to have such a good item locked behind doing something horrible during a questline. It's an entirely needless act of evil as well. Millicent trusts you wholeheartedly and never gives you a reason to attack her. The only way to get this item is through actively betraying her completely unprovoked.

The game gives you a pretty interesting ultimatum. What's more important to you? An incredibly useful and powerful talisman? Or the life of one of the very few friendly faces throughout the lands between? Does the answer change knowing that she's doomed to fall either way?

It's also good that this time around, there isn't an achievement for collecting every talisman. Only the legendary ones. So there's not even an achievement based incentive for the talisman. If you want the talisman, you want it for entirely self imposed reasons, and you're going to have to go through Millicent to get it.

(I know this isn't about comparing character morality but I really wanna write my thoughts down on this real quick, sorry) Honestly Ranni’s acts are significantly more justifiable than Godfreys. Ranni only did the bare minimum she needed to separate herself from the greater will and eventually overthrow it. She was desperate, and I can’t blame her because from the way she describes the GW it sounds like it’s hardly more than a controlling parasite. Bottom line is that Ranni wouldn’t have had to resort to doing the things she did if she was allowed even a slither of autonomy over her own flesh, and wasn’t predestined to become the GW’s puppet.

It's also important to note that the shattering and everything that came from it was mostly Marika’s doing. I’m not entirely comfortable with blaming her for every atrocity her children committed but she definitely has to shoulder a significant amount of the blame for the whole “ordering her insanely powerful family to fight over the titles they desire all the while giving them a massive power boost via the shards” thing.

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Godfrey on the other hand is absolutely batshit. I love him but the dude really needed to chill the fuck out. Even before he became Marika’s lord he was presumably a bloodthirsty warrior who would fight and kill anyone and anything he could. And after becoming Marika’s lord he played a pivotal role in the destruction of pretty much any society who fell outside of the GW’s very strict circle. And after leaving Marika with the tarnished they presumably went back to fighting anything and anyone they could find. He was the aggressor in every single conflict he ever fought that we know of. I'd argue that purely from a moral standpoint he's probably worse Radagon, who atleast attempted to find peaceful solutions to the wars he was waging. Which is odd because Radagon seems to be the more disliked out of the two.

“it’s fine and actually heroic to violently conquer nations and kill thousands just because their existence threatens your empire as long as it makes your empire prosperous and benevolent and benefitting everyone’s well-being! wait what do you mean the empire is slaughtering albinaurics and omen and making misbegotten into slaves”

Just want to point out to all the people saying that Zelda would never have kids that her bloodline quite literally needs to continue. Her family are genuinely the only people with the sealing power needed to fight off Ganon whenever he attacks the world.

It’s definitely a pretty fucked up responsibility, but that’s sort of the theme of the franchise as a whole. Link, Zelda and to a certain extent even Ganondorf are all victims of this constant, never ending cycle that they’re all stuck in.

Until Demise/Ganon is finally stopped Hylia/Zelda’s bloodline needs to continue, and the hero/Link's soul is going to keep getting recycled.

that's a really interesting interpretation! I could totally see that being the answer

Y'know, I've been thinking about the vow between Miquella and Radahn a lot recently, and I feel like I've come up with a possible explanation for why Radahn seemingly agreed at first but later backed out of the deal.

If Radahn truly did agree to become Miquella's consort, what are the chances that it was made under the pretense that he'd be the next elden lord in the golden order? Continuing the legacy and age of both his personal hero and father, alongside Miquella as the new god of the age, but things remaining overall the same.

Once Miquella became disillusioned with Marika's age and decided to do his own thing, and create his own age, Radahn probably lost interest in becoming his consort because he wouldn't be the lord of the age he loved anymore, infact he would be a major factor in it ending. Something that he historically does not stand for.

This probably lead to a disagreement between the two that lead to Malenia invading Selia. Miquella feeling betrayed because Radahn was now refusing to uphold his promise, and Radahn feeling betrayed because Miquella turned his back on the golden order he loved and was now trying to bring it to an end.

Tbf there are also a couple other things that link Marika to the black knives. Notably the fact that the group seem to have aligned themselves with the GW in some way after the shattering, due to them hunting down Ranni’s squad after she goes after her fingers (her baleful shadow is even kitted out with the same destined death powers, which shouldn't be possible if they weren't specifically given it by someone) and the one guarding the throne room in Leyndell.

On top of this the item description for the black knife set not only says that the black knives were all Numen women but specifically mentions that they had close ties with Marika.

Then there's the question as to how Ranni even got to farum azula to steal from Maliketh in the first place, which could very neatly tie into the grand and as of now unexplained "betrayal" that Marika commited against Maliketh.

There’s also Melina, who is one of Marika’s own children who uses the very distinct black knife fighting style if summoned for the Morgott fight. Since she's also technically a numen woman she's also in the running as a black knife candidate.

One of the things that has always vexes me is how people made the assumption that Marika the Eternal had some hand in the Black knife plot that killed Godwyn. The reasoning? Because the Black Knife assassins happen to be the same race as her, Numens.

Gee it's not like an entire civilization of Numen exist or anything, it's not like the player character can choose to play as a Numen or anything???

There are literally no other facts that link them outside of race. Yeah it is true that Marika was delving deep into the meaning of the order to find flaws with it, but if you knew your boss was making constant plans to replace you with some other candidates then what else would you do but question how they work??

All in all, there is no definite facts that line up either way, but I prefer to keep to the belief that Marika's shattering of the Elden Ring was an act of grief and loss of faith with the death of one of her most prominent children rather then something out of pure malice. I also support the theory that as Ranni was being groomed to take on Marika's role as the new goddess of the Erdtree, Godwyn was being groomed to take on the role of Elden Lord. It would explain why he was chosen specifically for her plot, and why she seemingly shows no remorse for his 'death.'

Not that Godwyn was seemingly a bad individual as far as in game lore goes. He was pretty much the Ned Flanders of Leyndell before he got merc'ed.

I think people who see the tarnished in elden ring as just murder hobo assholes who kill everything in their path for no other reason than wanting to are kind of missing the point of them.

First off, they’re not just some random asshole that strolled into the lands between looking for a fight. Our character was resurrected, torn from their home and thrown into this unrelenting hellscape against their will. They are just as much victims of circumstance as everyone else in this game.

Also there’s the whole aspect that we’re supposed to project a personality onto the tarnished ourselves. They’re not literally mute, determined, personalityless killers. If someone comes out of elden ring thinking the tarnished is just mindlessly killing everything in their path for no reason then I think that’s more of a problem with the player themselves. 

That being said, if someone doesn’t care to do that sort of character building or likes the idea of that being their tarnished’s personality then that’s perfectly fine, I’m not here to judge how you play the game. I’m just not a fan of people who call the tarnished in general a horrible person for doing what they do.

I know this is basically a pointless argument but the fact that people generalise the tarnished as one character instead of what they actually are (a blank slate that can be any type of character) kinda annoys me. Your tarnished and mine are not going to be the same type of person.

TLDR

“The tarnished in elden ring is an asshole” no, no, no, your tarnished is an asshole, mine is fine actually.

Something curious I noticed recently while exploring Farum Azula is that some of the curtains draped around the area share a passing resemblance to the fabrics seen in Marika's bed chamber, and of the ones seen in the depiction of Marika from the opening cutscene.

I'm sure this isn't a particularly new discovery, and the designs aren't exactly the same, but they're just similar enough that it got me thinking.

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Funnily enough Maliketh also shares a very similar veil to Marika's (the thing connected to his elbows and looping around his back.) His even seems to have the same golden edges as the ones from Farum azula.

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To me it seems like black fabric with golden plant detailing's are a bit of a motif with Marika. Which is nice to know, considering how little we actually know about her. (It's also pretty sweet that she has matching outfits with Maliketh)

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But if this design is a running theme with Marika specifically and not just a mistake I'm making then it begs the question. Why does this ancient, timeless, crumbling city in the sky that's presumably much older than every other area in the game have Marika's favourite design decorating its walls?

Is Marika from the time of Farum Azula? The time of Placidusax? Is Marika his missing god who he's been waiting for? That should be impossible, and maybe it still is, but she seems to have some sort of connection to this place. If not for her design adorning its walls then certainly for her godly appointed body guard living here.

Her body guard who, by the way, uses a weapon that has cultural significance to the society of Farum Azula.

You know, the society that was blasted off the map by a meteor long before the age of the erdtree even began.

This was just supposed to be a nice little post about a small detail I noticed, and now it's turned into this. I don't even know if any of this actually makes sense but I've tried my best to put it together in an understandable way.

There's still so much to go into regarding this theory (why did Marika wage war against the dragons if they have a history like this? could the meteor that destroyed Farum be one of the ones the GW sent down to bury the eternal cities? If so then could that event possibly be one of the first things that shook Marika's resolve in the GW?)

But for now I think I need to just post this and let it simmer for a while. If you got this far then thank you for coming down this rabbit hole with me. I'd love to hear your thoughts because I am thoroughly lost in just what this could mean.