Tim Lore - Blog Posts

Typical role dustribution

the misinterpretation of a lonely place of dying by later retellings drives me nuts because ‘tim finds out who batman is’ is nearly not as much of a big deal as ‘tim doesnt want to be robin’ in the actual origin and it pretty much sums up whats wrong with modern tim drake. ALPOD is a tragic story of a twelve year old boy who had everything and willingly gave it up for a greater good. he is not like dick and jason who became robin to escape tragedy nor bruce who had everything and then lost it. robin was nothing but a curse he accepted to bear and he did so because of his selflessness. that selflessness is his driving rod, his smarts and physical talent are only the tools he uses to achieve his goals. he is not ‘the smart one’, he is a sacrificial lamb for a cause he became an unwilling spectator of. a twelve year old boy thought ‘people need saving, its that simple’ and put on the clothes a dying kid not much older than him wore because of nothing more than his selflessness and everyone he loved paid the price for it. he paid an even greater price for it.

i personally have very complicated feelings on the Gotham Knights video game and the routes it takes with characterization. i think it has a charm to it and it goes in an interesting direction with everyone (especially within the confides of the plot of the game) but it does have certain moments that veer painfully fanon for me. (such as: the dialogue where Tim drinks too much coffee) it's an interesting story for what it is but i don't view it comics-based for characterization and therefore don't care to interact with it much for like. fanfic purposes.

that *said* though. i do have to give the game some kind of credit for giving one of the top five JayTim moments that lives rent free in my mind. every since i played the game, the cutscene lives in my mind daily. it's the specific cutscene where Jason and Tim are arguing about whether or not Jason's non-lethal bullets are too dangerous for the field, and the argument leads to TIm *standing in front of the target* Jason is shooting and telling Jason to shoot him. it lives rent free for me. i never stop thinking about this.

the absolute certainty Tim has that he is in no danger standing in front of Jason, who has a loaded gun pointed at his face. the way Jason *hesitates* for just a moment before lowering the gun. he thinks about it for just a second. Gotham Knights JayTim seem to get along very well and can rely on each other, but Jason still clearly holds a bitterness about his death and Tim that flickers through in some lines of dialogue under the guise of jokes. especially since this game deals *heavily* with concepts of Pit Madness causing an altered state of consciousness, i think it's believable that occasionally, Jason fights the urge to fight and hurt Tim for the feeling of being replaced.

i like their tension so much in this canon. they get along but you can *tell* Tim is afraid of addressing Jason's trauma or even addressing Jason head-on, and Jason leans into spooking Tim about it. which isn't very comics feeling in their dynamic, but it is an interesting way to place their dynamic if you're playing with a more timid Tim who's newer to the role of Robin. (which he seems to be in-game) he really doesn't want to offend Jason, or worse, piss him off. but he'll still face Jason head on for things like this, while completely aware of what Jason could be capable of.

and Jason seems very protective of Tim and respecting Tim as a Robin in typical Jason fashion. if Tim pushes, Jason *will* relent. he knows this is a kid who's proved himself and should be treated with equal respect, sometimes even more than Dick and Babs do in-game.

so for all that to culminate in Tim stepping in front of Jason's loaded gun that he *knows* is on the edge of being too dangerous, just to force Jason to listen? it's the most unhinged way Tim could've gotten his point across in this scene. he was literally daring Jason to hurt him and playing with a very dangerous fire. but he did it anyway bc he believed he could make Jason heel just at the thought of hurting Tim. and he was *right*. they're gay and i'm feral ty.

"tim is just like bruce" "tim is a mini batman" listen to me. fuck that. tim literally says he is not like batman and he does not want to be like batman. multiple times! throw that shit right out. do you wanna know who tim is a mini-me of?

listen to me. grips you by the shoulders. listen.

tim could be the second coming of lois lane.

they both have this incredibly nosy streak and an inability to stay out of situations if they think they can improve them. they are both fuelled by the need to do what is right and if no one else is gonna do it then by god they will.

"i care so much that i have to do something about it" is a fundamental tim and lois trait. "a locked door just means you have something to hide and i will find it" is also a fundamental tim and lois trait.

they are so similar. i NEED lois to get her hands on tim. i need them to get into hijinks and shenanigans together and i need clark and kon to look at each other and go "jesus christ there's TWO of them now?" as they hurry to go put out a fire. i need lois to hone and refine tim's hubristic streak and i need tim to enable her nosy snooping tendencies. tim & lois could be something beautiful. does anyone hear me. hi for the love of god hello is anyone listening

Lantern AU part 2

(This is part of an AU in which some of the lantern corps work differently for a bunch of reasons, here's a post explaining it:

https://www.tumblr.com/glitter-stained/758411385986220032/okay-so-to-be-honest-as-neuropsychology-major?source=share)

Kon: Holy shit, Rob, what's with the makeover?

Tim: Um yeah, so I guess I'm a Green Lantern now.

Kon: Well damn, I die and you become a whole new superhero? When did that happen?

Tim: Uh, somewhere between attempts 76 and 88 I think...

Kon: What?

Tim: What?

****

Cass: ...

Floating indigo ring:...

Cass: *squints*

Floating indigo ring: *flickers*

Cass: *tilts her head*

Floating indigo ring: *flips around itself*

Cass: *blinks*

The double dozen of goons she was busting: ...we could... Leave you guys to it?

Cass and the floating indigo ring: Shhh.

*****

Steph: Hey dad, it's visiting hour.

Arthur Brown: Stephanie? What are you doing in jai-

Steph: *punches him in the throat*

Steph: *kicks him in the shin*

Steph: *punches him in the face with a bright green giant fist construct*

Steph, looking down at the green power ring on her finger: Now where did that come from

****

Bonus:

Hal, coming back to earth after hearing there's a bunch of new lanterns in the rough that spawned around the same time: So what's been up with Gotham?

Bruce: My blood pressure

Whumptober: Day 17

(The Cyclist AU)

Background: Jason never came back to Gotham. There's no Red Hood.

During his Brucequest, Tim gets assistance from an unfamiliar person.

The map is destroyed.

Kid's staring at it like it's a crowbar, and Jason can't help feeling a twitch of compassion for him.

“Well,” he put his hand on the kid's shoulder. “We had a good run.”

The kid looks wrecked, honestly. His eyebags got bags, and there's this glimmer in his eyes that makes him wonder if part of the reason B took him was to prevent him from becoming a future raugh.

(Kid managed to set up a clone lab, become an international thief, and there's this whole thing with Ras he very carefully doesn't think about.

And that's just in three months.)

“It's over, Kiddo,” he tells the boy. “There's nothing we can do now. This was your last shot. You said it yourself.”

“No!” The kid says. “No, no, no, no. No. It's not– no, it can't. I'm not– this isn't over. This isn't. I can't. You can't make me. You can't – I'm not going. I'm not. You can't make me–”

“Wow, chill there,” Jason stops him. “I don't know what you're talking about, but it's like. You said it yourself. This was the last shot to find your - whatever cave or something.”

“It's not a cave,” the kid spits. “I've already told you - it's an ancient site used to worship a bat-like deity, which seems to be a local version of Pazuzu, that was discovered in –”

“I get it,” Jason stops him. “It's some important Batshit thing. But the map is gone. What are you gonna do? You said it yourself. No one's been there for over 70 years. What are you going to do? Get an Ouija board and start questioning the last archaeological team?”

Uh.

Oh no.

Jason recognises that look

This Look™ 

There's something sharp in the maniac smile on Tim's face.

“I mean… I bet you always wanted to break into a nuclear weapon factory in North-Korea.”

That crazy bastard.

Jason REALLY likes him.

List of Jason's nicknames for Tim, in no particular order except the 1st one because Babybird is best (this is headcanon)

Babybird

Baby

Little Red

Timmy

Drake

Rich boy

Replacement

Boy Wonder

Timbers

Timberlina

Timburrito

TimTam

Timbit

Timbo

Baby

Princess

Little Bird

Birdie

Bird boy

Red

Janet Dark is neglectful and Jack Drake is abusive if out.

My proposition is that the Drake family is now the DC's version of the Addams family. Jack is the physical manifestation of an ancient curse on an antique silver vase Janet (an obsessed historian) bought off Etsy (from John Constantine). Tim is a small Victorian boy who accidentally got sent to Hell and when returned to Earth a couple of centuries later (he charmed the satanic staff), got his papers mixed up and ended up in Gotham Bristol instead of the English one and got promptly adopted by the newly-wed Drakes.

sleeper body tim is something i think about often. like visually he looks like he has the skeletal structure of a cooked noodle but in reality he’s super strong. for example:

jason: shit the door is locked. move i’ll shoot the lock

tim: no don’t waste a bullet, i got this

jason: wtf are you gonna—

tim: *kicks door down*

jason: *horrified*

OR him taking his blazer off at a gala and people being able to see the muscles in his arms through his shirt when he moves. the morning after the gala there are articles like:

Billionaire Bruce Wayne’s adopted son and CEO of WE Timothy Drake-Wayne is secretly buff?

Also imagine him beating everyone in arm wrestling because he just takes them by surprise.

I had a Batman AU thought that I wanted to share involving eldritch?sentient!Gotham. Gotham is alive, old and deeply rooted magic of ??? origin (that doesn't appreciate being poked and prodded so attempts to discern what she is have ended badly), and she is... mercurial, to put it diplomatically. She can favor or sabotage people on a sliding scale of intensity - basically good or bad luck on the lower side of the scale (finding a $20 bill vs stepping in a gross puddle kinda thing), and on the higher side it's things like a bullet missing when it shouldn't or a piece of building falling onto someone. She also has boons, things she grants certain people - primarily Bats, but there are a few Rogues that have their own boons because again, mercurial. Boons bind someone to Gotham, make them always find their way back and eventually need to come back, but if you're close enough to Gotham for her to offer a boon, it's probably your home.

Batman is her... warlock? Paladin? He's pledged his life to protect Gotham and is in tune with her, and he protects the city and keeps it in balance, and she grants him her favor constantly and has given him a powerful boon (able to hide in whatever shadows there are, even slight ones, and virtually disappear in them even if you're watching him). When he takes Dick in and Dick creates the Robin mantle, Gotham loves it, and Dick gets his own boon (able to land where he intends to, can't be killed/seriously hurt from a fall).

Jason though is her absolute favorite son, her pride and joy. He's born of Gotham, steeped in the city, of it and for it, and he loves Gotham and when he becomes Robin he fights to make her better and bring light to her. She gives him the boon that he knows every part of the city instinctively. He can move through it easily, knows the streets and buildings by heart, knows on some level what's happening in different places (not always exact, usually gut feelings), and he can always hide in it when he chooses.

Then he dies. (Away from Gotham, because if he'd been in Gotham she never would have let it happen.) Gotham and Batman are a wreck together, they're angry and grieving and losing it, everything is coming apart and it's Bad. (The Joker had a boon from Gotham, because he's also of Gotham, and she's not good or evil but simply is. However when he killed HER favorite son, she tore the boon and her favor from him and wrecked what was left of his mind. He still feels chained to Gotham and Batman, but this is no longer a city that loves him.)

This is when Tim pushes to become Robin, and both Gotham and Batman hate it. They both want to lose themselves in the rage and grief, but Tim won't let them. Batman/Bruce comes around first, but Gotham is still seething, and she sabotages Tim at every turn: things that should hold his weight break or creak loudly, shadows never seem to hide him, evidence gets lost or trails go cold when he tries to follow them, buildings constantly crumble around him, goons always seem to get hits on him that he should be able to dodge or avoid, he gets pitched into the harbor CONSTANTLY.

It gets to a point that Bruce is seriously considering firing Tim purely because it's notably more dangerous for him as Robin than it ever was for Dick and Jason (even though he and Dick both try to convince Gotham to calm down and lay off). Tim eventually tracks down the best place to communicate with Gotham directly (much as she tries to deter him) and they get into a fight (reminiscent of Tim getting into fights with Bruce to make him get his shit together).

Tim argues that if he hadn't stepped in, Bruce would have either gotten himself killed or crossed a line he couldn't come back from, and it would have destroyed him AND the hope left in Gotham. He would have been considered a criminal and likely would have become a Rogue, with no 'Batman' to step up and stop him. He argues that Batman needs a Robin to fight for and protect, and without one he'll backslide and get worse again, and if that happens, Gotham will be torn to shreds. Tim points out that Jason loved Gotham and fought for her, and it's disrespectful of his love and his memory to let everything fall to pieces after he fought so hard for her.

It's enough to convince Gotham to back off on her sabotage, though she's still hurt and sulking. Bruce still isn't sure about Tim not having Gotham's favor, much less a boon of his own, but Tim argues that he'll get good enough to keep up with or without Gotham's help - which he does.

Over time though, Gotham watches Tim fight to protect Gotham and Batman, and she admits she was wrong in how she treated him. She slowly starts to extend her favor to him and eventually approaches him and offers him a boon. Tim, however, turns her down. He's seen how badly Jason's loss and Gotham's grief and anger affected those closely connected to her, and he knows taking the boon will tie him to Gotham permanently. He believes those connected to Gotham and Gotham herself need someone who can be more objective and keep a level head, and he's secretly kind of worried that if something happens again, if Bruce and the Bats eventually tire of him and don't need him, he'll be trapped in Gotham. He also just doesn't totally trust Gotham even though he loves her.

Gotham's hurt, obviously, but she understands and doesn't lash out, recognizing it's her own fault. She does give him her favor though and swears to never rescind it, even when she's upset with him. Tim's gotten this far without her favor or a boon, but it's nice not to have to worry about getting dunked in the harbor for the third time in one week anymore (though she hasn't done that in a year or so).

Then Jason returns, and Gotham is having THE BEST time. Her baby boy! Is back! He's bigger now, and he's a lot angrier and hurt in a lot of ways, but he's! Back! She's a little worried about how angry he is at Batman and the other Bats, but Jason is her favorite and she can't turn him away or deny him. She still favors him, she just... makes sure she favors the Bats enough too to keep them all on an even playing field. They'll work it out. Tim managed to get her to calm down, so she's confident her current Robin will help the family again.

Then Jason goes to the Titan Tower after Tim, and initially she assumes they'll talk and things will be better, but when Jason comes back she sees that he went and ATTACKED Tim.

It's the first time she's ever been angry at Jason, and she drops a brick on his head (while he's wearing his helmet, he's still her favorite), and she threatens to collapse the ceiling of his apartment. They get into a fight. Jason came away from his fight with Tim thinking Tim was impressive as Robin, but he doesn't want him in the suit so he still went through with beating him unconscious. He DID notice Tim doesn't have Gotham's boon, so he doesn't understand why she's so upset he roughed the kid up.

Gotham is pissed and a pissed Gotham is hard to communicate with outside of raw emotion, so eventually after suffering several indignities of light sabotage, getting caught yelling at the street or a building while the manhole cover or windows rattle angrily, Jason goes to find Tim and ask "hey what the FUCK" (haven't fully figured how this changes Jason's interactions with the rest of the Bats, but he is begrudgingly impressed that Tim made it through the start of his tenure with Gotham actively sabotaging him, then argued an eldritch city into behaving, then turned down her boon and STILL came out of it with her undying favor).

(Gotham, in this AU, is NOT a fan of the al Ghuls at all. Primarily Ra's, at first, because he wants to purify Gotham/control her, and she is NOT a fan of that thanks. He's tried attacking her (destroying parts of the city), threatening her, trying to determine the origin of her magic, enslave her, trying to bargain with her, seducing her, and she is having NONE OF IT. Going into Gotham is a nightmare for anyone with the League, because while it can be difficult for her to get a hold of them, once she does she sabotages the HELL out of them. Getting cut on rusted rebar, falling off ledges, sinkholes opening up under them, one of them managed to get bitten by a rat and catch the bubonic plague. Ra's has, on one memorable occasion, been knocked into an open manhole and then almost drowned in sewer water that carried him out into the harbor where something (possibly Croc) tried to eat him, and he broke his arm while climbing out.

Talia got a reluctant pass since she seemed more interested in Bruce than Gotham and Bruce reciprocated, but Gotham doesn't appreciate Talia's attempts to lure Bruce OUT of Gotham. When she finds out Talia kept Jason away? AND convinced him to go after Tim? Talia is on the permanent shit list too.

When Gotham finds out about DAMIAN, Talia can't set foot in Gotham without having SEVERAL chunks of building being dropped on her from above.

Though when Damian DOES show up, Gotham is quick to claim him and offer him a boon. He's the son of Batman, he's a future Robin, and if he's given a boon, he's tied to Gotham and can't easily return to the League (mostly Talia and Ra's). Win win!

Except then he attacks Tim, and learns VERY swiftly that it's not good to piss off the sentient eldritch city you accepted a boon from. He's laid up with a migraine and all kinds of awful symptoms of an illness (nothing fatal but definitely awful) until Tim recovers, and then Tim gets to play mediator between the Bats and Gotham AGAIN as he tries to explain to Damian the nuances of Gotham as an entity and what being one of her favored/booned actually means, AND lecturing Gotham about sabotaging another Robin/giving him a boon without making sure he understood what he was accepting.)

HI 👋 Fabulous AU you've got here.

I particularly enjoy how complicated Tim's relationship with Gotham is. In fact, Tim's later years could be misunderstood by the Bats as Tim being her favorite (hear me out).

If Gotham never states who her favorite is, all the Bats see is that Tim, despite not having a boon, has Gotham on his side against the other Bats (really, Tim just isn't attacking/harming the others like they are to him, but it's about perspective).

It's also kind of heartbreaking that Tim has an additional condition that sets him apart from the Bats. He's the only one to be immediately hated by Gotham. He doesn't have a boon (though later that's a choice). He is consistently reaching out to Gotham to actually communicate and fix their issues.

Might I add an additional part for extra angst? We'll take the fanon idea of Tim stalking his heroes from a young age.

Gotham sees that another being idolizes her paladins and grants him the small boon of his camera never making a sound, being unnoticeable, and the flash never being visible unless Tim wants it to. Tim is okay with being stuck in Gotham due to his parents never taking him abroad with them

After Tim forces his way into Robin, though, Gotham rips this away from him, destroys any need for him to stay (she wants him to leave her alone to her own rumination), and actively sabatoges him.

Because it was taken from him once, because he's felt the pain of that loss, because the sudden emptiness was a gaping hole he had to spend years coping with, he never wants a boon again. He doesn't know if he'll be able to handle the sudden deprivation once more.

This is the start of him not trusting that anything lasts (especially since a retracted boon was so rare it's only been rumored in the past [since Gotham doesn't care for "good" or "evil" it's harder to get on her bad side]).

I'm curious what all of the boons alloted to each person are (very curious if/what Commissioner Gordon's)

Batfam AU where Jason never dies, so Tim doesn't join the family the standard way. Instead, he continues pouring most of his time and energy into his photography, eventually becoming known as a popular photographer for events and all that. So now, picture this: Tim gets hired to be a photographer for a Wayne gala. Obviously, he's ecstatic, because he can take pictures of Batman, Robin and Nightwing and be in their presence for a whole night. Since Tim is so naturally talented in stealth and taking pictures unnoticed, the second one of the fam realises this they're like: this kid is good. Tim manages to go unnoticed by all 3 of them (all bat-trained, one literally batman) multiple times during the night, and even when he is noticed, he disappears before they can manage to get a good look at him; to the sheer amazement of Dick and Jason.

Jason, (very discreetly putting snacks in his suit pocket): i know you're under the table, kid.

Tim: don't mind me, Mr. Todd-Wayne, sir, just taking a few pictures

Jason: right... Jason's fine, and what pictures were you taking from under the table?!

Tim, showing him perfectly good shots of him: these.

Jason: how did you get that. it looks like you took it from the rafters

Tim, nodding: I did.

Jason, glancing at the ceiling: ...what?

Tim, gone:

Jason: no fucking way.

Dick, hearing a very, very faint camera shutter from behind him:

Dick, turning around and finding no one there: what the actual...

Dick, getting the feeling of being watched and whirling around to find Tim staring at him from across the room: ... huh.

Jason, pulling Dick aside: you see that kid too, right?!

Dick, nodding: the camera kid, yeah?

Jason: who is that.

Dick: he's one of the hired photographers, apparently. one of the best in his field, despite his age.

Jason: he's good. like, really good. snuck up on me 4 times already, the little bastard.

Dick: you too? i swear he's constantly watching. it's creepy how well he can sneak past both of us.

Jason:

Dick:

Jason: you don't think...

Dick: no. B would've told us.

Jason:

Dick:

Dick: did he get another kid and not tell us somehow

Bruce: what do you mean another kid?

Jason: you heard us. did you adopt another kid and not tell us?!

Bruce: no?? how would I even?? ... what's this about?

Dick: one of the photographers has managed to sneak up on both me and Jay multiple times already

Bruce: what.

Jason: he also can't be more than like. 15 or 16. so forgive us for assuming you took another one in.

Bruce: do you know his name?

Dick:

Jason:

Bruce: really?

Dick: in our defence, he's very hard to catch. i wouldn't be surprised if he's snuck up on you, too.

[camera shutter noise]

All of them, whipping their heads toward the sound only to find nothing but air:

Tim, smiling from the other side of the room:

Jason: do you see what we mean?!

Cue an entire night of shenanigans where it's just Dick, Jason and Bruce trying to catch Tim and learn about him. Upon finding out who he is and where he lives, Dick immediately asks to keep him as an honorary member of the family. Jason is hesitant at first but at some point Tim calls Bruce Batman instead of Mr. Wayne on accident and Jason laughs so hard he's basically won over. Bruce can do nothing but watch as Tim proceeds to come over almost every night for sleepovers and is coddled by both of his sons. And he can't deny, the kid's investigation and stealth skills are top tier. By the time Dick and Jason both start referring to Tim as 'their younger brother' Bruce has just accepted his fate.

I wanna talk about Janet Drake

I’m not against exaggeratedly evil versions of Tim’s parents, tbh. It’s fanfiction, if we can depict an Exaggeratedly Good version of Bruce (which we can, and I do, and I love) then we can depict the Drakes as Exaggeratedly Bad. As someone who personally identifies with Tim, and his brand of complicated parental abuse in particular, I find it cathartic to uncomplicate that abuse and rescue him from the Obviously Evil Bad People. 

That said, since much of comics lore is passed down word of mouth, the oral tradition surrounding Tim has developed this idea of Janet as The Worse Parent between her and Jack that was never really present in the comics. We see much LESS of Janet, and we have 20 years worth of comics depicting Jack as a neglectful hotheaded idiot who ultimate does love his son. More importantly, Jack isn’t very much LIKE Tim, so there is a habit to attribute Tim’s traits to his mother… and, as someone who really really identifies with Tim, Tim has… some negative traits. Tim can be a bitch sometimes. He’s fiercely intelligent and sweet and kind, with a strong sense of justice, but he can be cold and judgmental and unthinking - he fights those traits, but he does have them. 

And it is perfectly fine to depict Janet that way. I’ve enjoyed depictions of Cold Calculating Janet Drake, but it’s not the ONLY option, and I want to challenge fans to consider different avenues. Tim could pick up these traits from anywhere: a nanny, Mrs. Mc Ilvaine (”Mrs. Mac”), a teacher, tv, Sherlock Holmes novels, Bruce Wayne himself. Tim is capable of not being like EITHER parent. 

So, what do we KNOW about Janet? (I’ll also touch on Jack, but only in scenes he appears with Janet.) 

When Janet was first introduced she was depicted as a gentle but “modern” woman. This was written in 1989, told by a 13 year old Tim, so this theoretically was meant to take place in 1979. I’m not here to give a lecture on the history of sex discrimination in the united states, but much of the legislation protecting women in the workforce or surrounding women’s bodily autonomy would have been very very new in this initial depiction. 

Here, Janet is shown to be encouraging, emotional, maternal, and projects her own feelings onto Tim. Jack is shown to be slightly sexist, possibly discouraging, but not overbearing. And the artist is shown not to know how to draw children. 

To insert some speculation, I think it’s important to note all the Drakes witnessed a terrible murder/accident that day. I point this out, because this is the last time Jack and Janet are depicted this way. It’s possible they changed as a result of this event specifically. 

However, this is also a story being told by Tim. It’s also possible these events aren’t really “real” at all, and Tim is misremembering what his parents were like as a three-year-old, possibly projecting a more palatable version of his parents into the narrative. This is entirely up to personal interpretation. 

In fact, the Drakes are shown in Legend of the Dark Knight attending Haly’s Circus, and the artist knows what a toddler looks like and they’re depicted as already having a slightly strained relationship. Jack is clearly on the defensive, and Janet seems to be passive-aggressive, though she could just be attempting to explain the situation to her toddler honestly. The intended tone isn’t especially clear. 

I do want to point out, in this depiction, Tim isn’t being carried like he was in the previous one. He’s walking ahead of his parents, which isn’t a terrible horrible crime, but could be dangerous in a crowded place like the circus. Might be a subtle hint to his parents overall neglect. 

Back to A Lonely Place of Dying, in Tim’s memories of the night he discovered Robin and Dick Grayson were the same person at nine-years-old, his parents are home, and watching TV together while Tim played… trucks, idk, in the living room with them. (This is semi-interesting, because you could say “oh, Tim liked vehicle toys as a kid” or you could extrapolate that this is another subtle indication of Jack’s sexism, providing Tim with appropriately “boy toys.” Either interpretation is valid. If Tim was assigned female at birth, would they have been given “girl toys,” or allowed to play with whatever they wanted?) 

This is, to my knowledge, the only panel of the Drakes when Tim is between ages 3 and 13. They’re all together, which might indicate that the Drakes were home more often when Tim was 9, only later going on business trips when Tim was “old enough” but… 

This is Tim’s boarding school when he’s 13. While most boarding schools in the US are for grades 9-12, Tim is clearly not a freshman at age 13; look how much younger the other kids in this panel are. In the US, the youngest you can attend most boarding schools is 7. 

That means Tim could have begun going to boarding school anytime between 7 and 13. He most likely spent all of middle school in boarding school, at least. There are an almost infinite number of possible ways the Drakes handled having a business that required lots of international travel, an archeology hobby, AND a very young child. Janet staying home until Tim was 7, 11, 13, is equally possible as the Drakes having a nanny until 7, 11, 13. Tim just doesn’t talk about that period of his life very much.

(”What about Mrs. Mac?” - it is unclear when Mrs. Mac begins working for the Drakes. We only see her when Jack comes out of his coma. She could either be a long standing staff member, or a recent hire.) 

Note: I’ve seen it said that it’s canon that “According to Tim, when his parents were home, they made a point to try and include him in their activities, bringing him along to events that were normally adults only.” I have never seen this panel, or I don’t remember it, so I cannot confirm, but I also cannot debunk this because… comics. 

By the time Tim is 13, Jack and Janet are away on business trips a lot, with limited communication, and no firm return date. If I’m feeling generous, I’d say it was harder to communicate internationally in 1990 than it is today. If I’m not feeling generous, I’d say the Drakes are extremely wealthy, and international communication was easier than ever before in the 80s and 90s. They’re not even going home to see Tim in a week or two, they’re going home and calling Tim at boarding school in a week or two. 

Even Bruce thinks its weird, though he doesn’t say so to Tim’s face. It’s written almost as if Tim’s parents’ neglect was meant to be a plot point that just got forgotten about. 

Tim’s parents are fighting at this point (their poor assistant), but Janet still goes with Jack on these business trips. And she’s clearly involved in the business, somehow, but the comics never SAY what Janet’s JOB is. We’re told Jack is the exec, but Janet is ONLY ever referred to as Jack’s wife, though they’re later described as the “heads” of the company, plural. 

Just to be clear, this is Jack’s business. There’s a perception that Jack is a bad business man because he and Janet fight over company decisions, and Jack looses the business after Janet dies, but Jack looses the company YEARS after Janet dies, and maintains it for about a year after No Man’s Land at that. We’re not told how Jack looses the business, but he’s got to be doing something right. Janet isn’t necessarily the “real brains” of Drake Industries. 

And I’m not… gonna… touch the… exploitation and racism because… I’m not qualified to do that. But, here’s the panel. The Drakes sure seem exploitative and racist in their business decisions. Someone else can… analyze that with more nuance. 

Regardless how how long they’ve been fighting, when their lives are in danger, the Drakes fall back into a loving husband and wife. Their marriage may be falling apart, but they do care about each other. 

I want to show these panels because it shows that Tim and Jack do have things in common. They’re both level headed in a crisis and can be somewhat cold in their practicality. Janet meanwhile and silent. Jack is later willing rant and rave at their captors, but Janet remains silent. 

That is, until they’re alone, and she finally lets herself fall apart. 

God, Jack can be obnoxious. Janet just looks miserable and resigned. I actually think Tim takes after his parents in this respect in equal measure. Tim can have a temper, but he can also be fairly melancholy and defeatist. 

Jack keeps reminding Janet to be strong and in control, which could be period typical sexism? But Jack seems so practiced and ready with the words of encouragement, and with Tim’s history with depression, I wonder if Janet has an inclination towards it as well. 

As the end approaches, when Jack brings up Tim, Janet seems to have a lot of regret. She talks about “wasting” the good things, and I don’t think it’s too big of a stretch to assume she’s talking about time spent with her only child. 

From this point on, Janet is at times spoken of, but not seen. Like here, when Jack says Janet wouldn’t approve of him and Tim being so “far apart.” He says this after he tells him he takes back his threat to send him back to boarding school, which might imply Janet was against the idea of boarding school? Though she obviously lost that argument when she was alive. 

Jack will of course renege on this later, but that’s Jack Drake for you. 

Or here in Tim’s illness induced dream, where he gets everything he wants. Though, since this is a fantasy of Tim’s, where his father and girlfriend are both more accepting and understanding than they are in real life, I would take this depiction of Janet with a grain of salt. 

After loosing Drake Industries, Jack thinks about Janet (though, they call her Catherine/Cathy for some fucking reason) during his depressive episode. And… uh… 

Hallucinates a Valkyrie???? Is this symbolic of suicidal thoughts, or is she… real? Or is he seriously hallucinating? 

Anyway, we’re not here to discuss Jack’s mental state, the fact that he forgot Tim’s birthday, or that concerning “I was going to knock some sense into you but you’re still bigger than me” statement from Tim, we’re here to talk about Janet. And even though this entire arc is about Jack mourning his first wife, they don’t SAY anything about Janet herself at all. I mean, they don’t even get her name right, so I guess what was I expecting. 

Then there’s Origins and Omens, which also doesn’t say anything about Janet, except that Tim’s memory of her is faulty - Janet was poisoned, her assistant Jeremy’s throat was slit on television, but Tim seems to have conflated the death he did see with the death he didn’t. 

The only piece of canon to suggest that Janet might be cold, is Tim compares her to Thalia. And even then, he’s really just saying Janet was protective of him. It’s kind of a scary look to make at your kid, but Bruce does the same thing, so. 

I do want to say… it’s not 100% clear if Tim is even talking about Janet. He could be talking about Dana. Dana was observably protective of Tim, though I don’t think he’s ever called her mom. He PROBABLY means Janet. 

And finally we have Tim visiting his mother’s grave (in a duel Christian/Jewish cemetery, make of that what you will), where Tim says she was “a little religious.”

And that’s it! That is all we know about Janet Drake in New Earth. Hardly the Mom From Hell, but she isn’t perfect. I’d be interested in seeing some alternate depictions of her within the fandom. 

I’m still gonna eat up Terrible Parents From Hell like a starving puppy dog, though. Just some food for creative thought. 

i think the best and most accurate writing decision ever made for tim was having him imagine cass being batman in the future

Headcanon that Tim introduces Cass to reddit and helps her make an account. But she mostly uses it to ask questions and user batgirlfan99 accidentally becomes a meme and an urban legend. Half her posts are AITA situations listing either horrible trauma done to her which she doesn't acknowledge as trauma or moments where she was most definitely the asshole but seems massively confused as to why. To make things more baffling the other half of her posts are questions to various subreddits like "Why does food have out of date labels when it tastes fine?" or "How many bones can I break when I'm fighting someone before it becomes cruel and not OK?" and "How can I get a real passport if I don't technically exist?"

She's so completely serious about all of this people aren't sure if it's an elaborate bit, shitposts like dril, or if someone should call a hospital and get her help. Tim's having too much fun watching it all happen so he strikes a deal with Babs to make sure Bruce never finds out and shuts it down. Babs agrees because it's nice to see Cass interacting with civilians even if it's anonymous and online.

Unfortunately Cass goes a little too locally viral on a discussion thread about Gotham water, insisting that she drank it for two years both during and after No Man's Land and she's fine, so people are clearly exaggerating about the chemicals. Bruce gets wind of it and starts making plans in case the account is run by a new Gotham joker variant but the more he looks at it the more these questions seem familiar...

The next time they're having a family dinner he mutters to Cass: "I still don't think I was the asshole during the Soul fight. You didn't give the full context ."

After this reveal, the rest of the dinner is spent with both of them arguing their case and everyone voting on if Bruce was NTA. Dick, Tim, Duke and Damian vote YTA. Cass and Bruce vote NTA. Dick says Cass was also the asshole for punching him in the face which sets off a whole new round of discourse.

batgirlfan99 deletes her account the following morning, leading to widespread mourning across her frequent subreddits. Cass still thinks it was worth it. She knows the difference between laundry detergent, fabric softener, and fabric conditioner now.

DC Bat comics have a lot of classism issues (among other problems) but thanks to the weird-ass way that wealth scales, any analysis that assumes Tim’s original family is closer to the Waynes than they are to the Browns is going to be full of holes. Or if you assume Stephanie’s family is closer to the Todds than to the Drakes.

Like, the Drakes when Jack still has the company are definitely in a different tax bracket than Crystal Brown the nurse & Arthur Brown the ex gameshow host turned costumed villain, but the Drakes & Browns are still closer to each other than they are to the old money Bruce Wayne whose company bankrolls the Justice League.

Plus the time when DI went under and the Drakes were relying on Dana’s income from working as a physical therapist moved them to probably about the same bracket until Jack picked up a job too.

Acting like Stephanie Brown, who grows up in the suburbs in a house her mom owns outright, can easily put herself up in a hotel room for a week or two when fighting with her mom, only needs a job in college to avoid student loans instead of to supplement them… is close to pre-adoption Jason?

Even pre-his-parents-dying Jason?

No.

Tim & Steph have enough of a gap to have different experiences and sometimes talk past each other, but they’re still both much closer to each other than either of them is to the Waynes or the Todds.

Tim & Steph are both economically well off kids with abusive dads who decide to sneak out and fight crime. Stephanie’s mom is uninvolved in her life because of a prescription pill addiction (though she works past that to become more involved), while Tim’s mom is straight up dead, and the stepmom he gets later is nice but takes a hands-off approach to parenting (and then dies too).

This makes sense with Stephanie’s role in earlier comics being a foil to Tim (though she grows into a more independent character over time). They need enough similarities in circumstance that their different philosophies and crime fighting styles come down to personal choice, and they can argue with each other without mutually devolving into “You just don’t understand!”

TL;DR: economics and social class are fucking weird, Tim & Steph are foils, exaggerating the differences in their backgrounds messes up your analysis.

Bonus: You don’t need to make Steph even more of an underdog to appreciate her character.

Tim Drake’s Friends (not to be confused with Red Robin’s friends)

Inspired by this post by cryptocism, I bring you: Tim Clique-Breaker Drake. 

(Don’t mind me, this is also basically just me taking notes for a fic I’m working on. Tim’s various normal boy friendships. High School Musical has nothing on Tim Drake.) 

(One of these days I’ll write half these characters’ DC Database entries. Today is not that day. All characters listed know Tim primarily as Tim Drake; anyone who knows Tim primarily as Robin/Red Robin, or who know Tim equally as Tim and Robin, is not included. If I miss someone… I missed someone.)

Keep reading

tim drake childhood living situations

#1 robinson park penthouse apartment

batman #480

the first named downtown apartment, the robinson park penthouse is the home that jack wanted to move into with tim following his coma. given that my guess would be that this was jack's personal favorite of their places given this is where he wanted to go

#2 the city apartment in mooney towers

robin #3

now, this one isn't necessarily a *confirmed* childhood home--honestly the way he calls it his dad's city apartment could also maybe imply that it's an apartment jack got to following their move out to bristol (as he notoriously had a lot of trepidation about the idea moving out to the country/bristol/drake manor, as detailed in batman #481--seriously them moving out to the house in bristol was enough of a plot point it got an issue where it explicitly happened. jack gets swooped by a bat immediately. ~symbolism~) so that he had another place down in the city to stay in if he had stay overnight there for whatever reason after moving out to bristol. but that's also not confirmed, so it's fair to include this also as a possible tim drake childhood apartment location. as for where in the city it is, i believe it's never specified but he explicitly mentions it's closer to ariana who at the time is living in little odessa. my best guess would be that little odessa is a bit adjacent to the upper east side, given the connection with helena & her presence there in cry of the huntress. therefore i'm inclined to place mooney towers somewhere in the upper east side/coventry vicinity.

#3 the downtown condo

the condo that jack, dana, and tim end up in following drake industries going bankrupt is stated to be one of their previous properties, and the only one they keep after selling everything else. we know this was a childhood stop of tim, as he mentions they wouldn't go their often, but they'd use their downtown place when they had certain plans in the city where the condo would be closest--mentioning art, galleries, operas, etc. so he likely didn't live here a ton but it is a possible place. it just says location downtown, but given it's within walking distance of those places and the opera house is on the southwest part of the city per the NML map in the area it says is the upper west side, i would assume the condo is there.

#4 boarding school

batman #445, robin iii: cry of the huntress #4

unnamed, but there are implied to be various. (fernwood is the one in metropolis that jack wants to send tim for a bit, but he obviously never goes).

and that's it for confirmed/named places. as far as any other places they may or may not have had, the sky is almost the limit tbh. tim mentions moving around a lot as a kid, so you certainly don't have to limit yourself to these 3, but you're far more likely to find him in gotham proper vs anywhere else. drake manor is out as they explicitly buy it in batman #481 after tim is robin. during jack's coma era, tim is fostered with bruce.

Is there any confirmation that Tim was born Gotham City? It’s said that he moved a lot growning up, but was it just around Gotham? The USA? The whole world? Does canon even specify that?

Fun Fact: New 52!Tim is actually from New York City.

We don't have a specific on page confirmation that Tim was born in Gotham, however the Drakes as a family are very much from Gotham. Tim mentions during Gates of Gotham #1 that his grandfather called the bridges "the Gates", an old turn of the 20th century term for the main bridges. The family have been in Gotham a long time.

Every house we know about is in Gotham: there are several different apartments or condos mentioned over the years in various parts of the city proper. Jack was uncomfortable about the idea of a move out to Bristol as it was too quiet and he was used to the city itself. Drake Industries was headquartered in Gotham.

Tim hypothetically could have been born somewhere else, if you want Jack and Janet travelling around even while Janet is extremely pregnant or getting stuck in a city when Janet was no longer cleared to fly, but he's from Gotham, as is his father and grandfather.

(Witness protection not!Tim Drake from n52 aside)

Batfam AU where Jason never dies, so Tim doesn't join the family the standard way. Instead, he continues pouring most of his time and energy into his photography, eventually becoming known as a popular photographer for events and all that. So now, picture this: Tim gets hired to be a photographer for a Wayne gala. Obviously, he's ecstatic, because he can take pictures of Batman, Robin and Nightwing and be in their presence for a whole night. Since Tim is so naturally talented in stealth and taking pictures unnoticed, the second one of the fam realises this they're like: this kid is good. Tim manages to go unnoticed by all 3 of them (all bat-trained, one literally batman) multiple times during the night, and even when he is noticed, he disappears before they can manage to get a good look at him; to the sheer amazement of Dick and Jason.

Jason, (very discreetly putting snacks in his suit pocket): i know you're under the table, kid.

Tim: don't mind me, Mr. Todd-Wayne, sir, just taking a few pictures

Jason: right... Jason's fine, and what pictures were you taking from under the table?!

Tim, showing him perfectly good shots of him: these.

Jason: how did you get that. it looks like you took it from the rafters

Tim, nodding: I did.

Jason, glancing at the ceiling: ...what?

Tim, gone:

Jason: no fucking way.

Dick, hearing a very, very faint camera shutter from behind him:

Dick, turning around and finding no one there: what the actual...

Dick, getting the feeling of being watched and whirling around to find Tim staring at him from across the room: ... huh.

Jason, pulling Dick aside: you see that kid too, right?!

Dick, nodding: the camera kid, yeah?

Jason: who is that.

Dick: he's one of the hired photographers, apparently. one of the best in his field, despite his age.

Jason: he's good. like, really good. snuck up on me 4 times already, the little bastard.

Dick: you too? i swear he's constantly watching. it's creepy how well he can sneak past both of us.

Jason:

Dick:

Jason: you don't think...

Dick: no. B would've told us.

Jason:

Dick:

Dick: did he get another kid and not tell us somehow

Bruce: what do you mean another kid?

Jason: you heard us. did you adopt another kid and not tell us?!

Bruce: no?? how would I even?? ... what's this about?

Dick: one of the photographers has managed to sneak up on both me and Jay multiple times already

Bruce: what.

Jason: he also can't be more than like. 15 or 16. so forgive us for assuming you took another one in.

Bruce: do you know his name?

Dick:

Jason:

Bruce: really?

Dick: in our defence, he's very hard to catch. i wouldn't be surprised if he's snuck up on you, too.

[camera shutter noise]

All of them, whipping their heads toward the sound only to find nothing but air:

Tim, smiling from the other side of the room:

Jason: do you see what we mean?!

Cue an entire night of shenanigans where it's just Dick, Jason and Bruce trying to catch Tim and learn about him. Upon finding out who he is and where he lives, Dick immediately asks to keep him as an honorary member of the family. Jason is hesitant at first but at some point Tim calls Bruce Batman instead of Mr. Wayne on accident and Jason laughs so hard he's basically won over. Bruce can do nothing but watch as Tim proceeds to come over almost every night for sleepovers and is coddled by both of his sons. And he can't deny, the kid's investigation and stealth skills are top tier. By the time Dick and Jason both start referring to Tim as 'their younger brother' Bruce has just accepted his fate.

I think we're all ready for Tim Drake to move on from the Robin codename and costume and take on a new identity just like he had right before New 52. However, while I liked the costume... the name? Red Robin? It wasn't the best. Certainly better than other names that have been suggested for him (looking at you... Drake) but it still didn't give him his own identity, you know? Red is Jason's color, and he's still clutching tight to the Robin mantle. Hell, even the costume he wore was originally worn by Jason during the Countdown series before Final Crisis.

I want him to have his own name. His own costume. His own color.

And then I saw Juni Ba's interpretation of the Red Robin suit and... it hit me -

Condor.

The wings, the curved shape of the helmet looking like a beak... it would be so easy to translate this design into a new costume for Tim. Especially since it looks like a condor more than a Robin. Especially since the symbol he wore while Red Robin never 'looked' like a Robin.

And yes there are questions -

Isn't there already a hero named Condor? Yes. Two heroes and a villain. However we haven't heard much about them in recent comics. Black Condor, to my knowledge, currently only exists on Earth X as there's yet to be a Freedom Fighters team on the main DC Earth even after Heavy Metal. The other Condor was last seen during the New 52 run of Birds of Prey. And the villain Condor exists as a Hawk parallel who, let's be honest, we will most likely never see again.

Why Condor? Aren't there other names, similar names, you could use? Yes, these similar names exist, but it wouldn't sound right or be feasible in the current comics universe. Hawk? Already exists, Hank Hall. Vulture? Villain name. Raptor? Already taken by a Nightwing Rogue. Falcon? Hero for Marvel.

The only name I could also see other than Condor is Eagle, which would also be a great nod to Alfred Pennyworth, but the symbolism of Eagle is also too wrapped up with the government that it would muddle the messaging and vigilante brand.

Condor, however, makes perfect sense.

And you wouldn't have to tweak the costume much! My only thing would be to change the color from red... to green.

Green is currently an unclaimed color amongst the Bat Family and I think Tim would rock it. We've seen him leaning on the color green more and more as Robin, ironic as his most famous costume is when he ditched green all together after Superboy's death. Him choosing green, reclaiming green, would show him fully stepping out from the shadows to be his own hero.

Tl; dr Tim Drake should take on a new codename, Condor, wear a suit similar to Juni Ba's design, but green.

Fave Tim and Bruce dynamic is when Tim can just raise an eyebrow at Bruce and he stops working, eats, sleeps etc. the rest of the Batfam (excluding Alfred) are absolutely stunned every time it happens (they couldn’t get Bruce to take care of himself short of knocking him out and force feeding him). Bonus points if Bruce literally cannot make Tim do anything he doesn’t want to because once you’ve seen him drunk and depressed the batglare doesn’t have the same effect

Y'know, it's so funny to me when people make out like Tim Drake would keep files on how to take down his friends when Tim has explicitly said he disagrees with Batman on this:

[Young Justice (1998) #36]

Like, yes, during his Red Robin tenure he does make a Hit List full of contingency plans for known heroes. But if you go and read that, you'll notice that, while the Justice League and Damian may be on there, Tim's own friends are decidedly absent:

[Red Robin (2009) #14]

In fact, a lot of these heroes are people that have either (a) attacked Tim specifically, (b) have a track record that includes turning evil/getting mind controlled, or (c) are on the JLA (meaning Batman probably already had those files compiled and Tim just stole them).

So yeah: Tim's not down with contingency-planning for his friends. You know which one of the YJ crew DID agree with Batman though? My favorite blorbina Anita Fite, aka Empress:

[Young Justice (1998) #36]

But yeah, this contrast is honestly fascinating to me. Because while both Anita and Tim have been shown to be incredibly loyal individuals, this exchange really highlights the fact that, between the two of them, Anita is far more likely to engage in this kind of pragmatism when she thinks it's necessary to get the job done

The whole Our Worlds at War arc actually does a really good job of illustrating how both of them react to betrayal from within. It's not just the Batman Files conflict either -- I'm thinking specifically about the hallucination-based torture Granny Goodness put them through, which showed them their worst fears. Most of the team ended up having to watch their loved ones die, but what's super interesting to me is that we really only see Anita and Tim hallucinate that their loved ones blame them for their deaths:

[Young Justice (1998) #37]

Like. It's not the same as a teammate turning evil at all. But it does give us a good idea of how they'd both react when faced with a friend or teammate doing harmful things, albeit on a smaller scale. Because where Tim kind of just accepts Superboy yelling at him and moves straight into bargaining for Kon's life, Anita actually flips the script, gets angry, and defends herself against her father:

[Young Justice (1998) #37]

(she actually gets so righteously pissed off that she manages to break out of the VR simulation Granny Goodness had her trapped in, but that's another point)

But yeah, it's super interesting, because by this point, both Anita and Tim have been set up to be very similar characters. They both can be a little bit obsessive, they both have some issues with boundaries and stalking (Tim with Nightwing and Batman, Anita with Cissie), and of the team, they're both portrayed as the "normal" members (Anita does technically have mind control powers but she barely ever uses them, and in a fight, she's basically just a very good, human-level fighter)

But at the end of the day, though Batman forces Robin to put on a cool front of objectivity, Tim (at least in his pre-grief-spiral era) ultimately wants to see the best in his team. When the people he cares about screw up, he wants to give them second chances. And when that trust gets broken, his first instinct is to try to use diplomacy, or, failing that, simply remove himself from the situation (as we see at the end of the Our Worlds at War arc when he quits the team)

Anita, on the other hand, while still incredibly loyal, does not hand out that loyalty unconditionally. We see this when she tries to keep her identity secret from the YJ squad, we see it when she gets pissed in Granny Goodness's hallucination when her father blames her for her mother's death, and we see it when she later blames Secret for her perceived role in Anita's father's death

Anita also happens to sit right smack dab in the middle of the YJ morality scale; while she's generally pretty chill and willing to abide by typical superhero codes of ethics (unlike Slobo and Secret), she's also been shown to bend those rules when she believes it's necessary (as seen here when she tortures and threatens to kill a man for trying to hurt Cissie). Ultimately, what this means is, between Tim and Anita, it's honestly Anita who'd probably be the most willing to put her personal qualms aside, buckle down, and go against her loved ones if it was the only reasonable option

Anyway. This is a really long-winded way of saying I think Gun Batman's biggest nemesis should be Empress

Their friendship is legitimately everything to me

Bat Family AU wherein only Barbara and Tim know Huntress' true identity. So when Tim needs a fake relative after Jack's murder, instead of hiring a complete stranger to pose as his uncle, he hires Helena to be his fake aunt.

As a teacher, she is against him dropping out of school but she knows him and listens to him, so she realizes how hard the last few years have been on him, especially with how often he had to change schools. They compromise, with her signing him up in a homeschooling academy. He does a lot better and even starts taking AP classes in several subjects since his training has caused him to advance in them. Not having to get up early for school or hide so much from his teachers/classmates/parental figures(s) also takes a lot of pressure off of him.

Helena gains access to the Robin's Nest Tim builds in or near their building. She also upgrades her suit and staff using some of the materials and specs from his suit and gear. They both are very good at recognizing when the other is getting close to someone who isn't good for them, or pushing themselves too hard, and they intervene.

When Barbara eventually learns that Helena is posing as Tim's aunt (probably because Helena told her) she's like "Okay, I expect this kind of thing from Tim, but why would you agree to this?!"

Helena points out that she needed to find a way to supplement her teacher's salary if she was going into keep up the vigilante gig anyway; Robin's new computer set up rivals Oracle's; and this way she can make sure the bambino does his homework and gets enough sleep.

Barbara realizes that both Robin and Huntress have been on top of their game lately.

Once she calms down from realizing that Tim just needed a decent parental figure all this time, she and Helena start trading notes and working together to keep Tim and Cassandra from turning out like Bruce, Dick, or Jason.

Whenever they learn about this, Bruce and Dick will be insulted. Jason and Alfred will add their own notes to help.

When Tim's report card comes back with straight A's and Cass has learned to read all the street signs, Helena and Barbara take them out for pizza and gelato to celebrate.

Occasionally, Tim reminds Helena that she's just supposed to pretend to be his aunt. She ignores this and reminds him to do his schoolwork and eat something before patroling.

It works.

Dick: Okay, I think we’re gonna have to do ‘Good Cop, Bad Cop’.

Jason: Yeah. It’s tropey but it works.

Dick: Exactly. Wanna flip for Bad Cop?

Jason: You’re kidding.

Dick: Or we could play Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock?

Jason: Dude, I can’t be Good Cop. I kill people, remember? You can’t kill people and be Good Cop.

Dick: Those were traffickers and mob lieutenants. These are Rogue goons.

Jason: What, like that matters?

Dick: Yes, that matters. They don’t care that you took out some mobsters. They care that you revived the Joker after beating him to death and then let him go.

Jason: I didn’t revive him, I just didn’t let him die yet! And I didn’t let him go either! That was Batman! I was gonna kill the psycho!

Dick: Yeah, well, you still kept him alive and the goons probably know it. Just like they know I was happy to leave him dead when I killed him.

Jason: What?

Dick: You heard me.

Jason: You…?

Dick: Killed the Joker? Yes. I thought he killed Timmy and then when I confronted him, he said your name and…I didn’t stop hitting him until he choked on his own blood.

Jason: Then…how is he still alive?

Dick: Batman revived him.

Jason Fucking what?

Dick: Yeah.

Jason: Well, now I definitely can’t be Good Cop. I’m way to pissed for that shit.

Dick: Well, so am I.

Jason: Fuck.

Dick: Fuck.

Jason: So now whadda we do? Try to beat it outta him?

Dick: No, he'll lock down. That's why I suggested "Good Cop, Bad Cop" to begin with.

Jason: So we need a Good Cop.

Dick: Okay, I’m gonna call Timmy and see if he can come play Good Cop.

Jason: Good plan.

Dick [talking into a secure (& Batman-proof) phone]: Hey, Robin, you busy?

Tim [on speakerphone]: Kinda, yeah. What’s going on? You sound weird.

Dick: Hood and I need to get some intel from a goon, and we’re thinking “Good Cop, Bad Cop” is the way to go but neither of us can pull off Good Cop right now.

Tim: Shit. I’m in Bangkok right now-

Jason: The fuck are you doing in Bangkok?

Tim: Speedy needed help with a thing.

Dick: In Bangkok?

Tim: No. She’s in Korea.

Jason: So, again, why the fuck are you in Bangkok?

Tim: Because Lady Shiva’s here and she’s perfect for what Speedy needs, so I’m calling in a favor she owes me.

Dick: You’re calling in a favor from Lady Shiva because Speedy needs help with a thing in Korea.

Tim: Yep. You got it.

Dick: No, that’s- You say that like it doesn’t require any further-

Tim: Can you hang on for a second? There’s an assassin tailing me.

Dick: Shit. Do you need us to send someone out there?

Jason; Starfire should be done with her thing by now. She's not on your shit list, right?

Tim: No, I like Kori. But I’m good now. My assassin got the other assassin.

Dick: You have an assassin?

Tim: Kinda? She defected from the League of Assassins and is up for hire but she always gives me priority since she feels like she owes me a life-debt.

Dick: Again, you sound like you think that statement doesn’t require any further explanation.

Jason: So you hired your assassin buddy to kill the other assassin?

Tim: What? No. Of course not. She didn’t kill him. We’ll question him later. She never kills on my jobs since she knows I don’t like it.

Dick: What about other jobs?

Tim: That’s her business. We aren’t all control freaks, you know.

Dick: That’s-

Jason: That’s good, Little Red. Good that you have healthy boundaries.

Dick: I have healthy boundaries.

Jason: Sure you do.

Tim: Okay, you’re gonna have to argue that on your own. I’m supposed to help my friends out with something after I get Shiva to help Speedy, but I have to handle this interrogation first. So how about I just send my friends the twenty-five plans I drew up and ask Bunker if he minds helping you out before he joins us? He should be able to get inside Gotham in less than ten minutes.

Jason: Oh, Bunker’s perfect for Good Cop.

Tim: Right? They’ll spill everything and probably give him their grandma’s secret family recipes on top of it.

Dick: Wait. Back it up. You have twenty-five plans drawn up? What are you guys up against?

Tim: Nothing we can’t handle. Young Justice figures, why even bother with a plan B if you aren’t gonna cover the whole alphabet?

Jason: There’s twenty-six letters in the alphabet, Little Red.

Tim: Yeah, but plan Z is always the same, so we don’t bother listing it anymore.

Dick: Is it ‘get an adult’?

Tim: Of course not.

Jason: When you were a Teen Titan, how often did you call in an adult when you probably should have?

Dick: Okay, that’s fair.

Jason: So what’s plan Z?

Tim: ‘Fuck it, we ball’.

Dick: That’s not a pl-

Jason: That’s perfect. I love it.

Dick: No. Don’t encourage him.

Tim: Thanks, Red. So do you want me to ask Bunker about helping you? I’m kinda on a time crunch now.

Jason: Yes, please.

Tim: Okay. He’s on the way. Is there anything else?

Dick: Whe-

Jason: No, we’re good. Have fun storming the castle!

Tim: ‘Kay, bye!

Jason: Bye!

Dick: The fuck-

Jason: Bunker and I can handle the interrogation here and Timmy and his assassin friend are gonna be busy with an interrogation there for a bit. If you take off now, you can probably catch up with him and go all big brother like you’re dying to.

Dick: You sure?

Jason: Yeah, I’m sure me and Bunker can handle this asshole.

Dick: Thank you.

Jason: Yeah, well, you did kill the Joker. That’s gotta count for something, right?

Dick: I’ll tell you all about it after I make sure Timmy doesn’t get himself killed or lose another organ.

Jason: I’ll hold you to- Timmy lost an organ?

Dick [already calling Kori to get him to Tim]: Later. I’m on a time crunch now!

Jason: I’m holding you to that!

Jason: *sighs* No one in this family knows how to share.

The bats need a scandal to distract Vicki

So ofc Tim takes Anita's parents to bring-your-kid-to-work-day

All would be well, if the Bats didn't think he was the father as well.

Bonus: "uncle Timmy?" Tim stares down at the child pulling on his trouser leg, "Yeah?"

The girl pointed towards the wafting smoke from Vicki's car, before waving a stolen box of matches. "Whoops."

reading some tags and I totally get why it's very popular to say that Alfred is the "heart of the Batfam." However: Alfred is the heart of the Wayne family, not the Bat Family. Which are two different things that should not be conflated with each other.

A few examples: Helena doesn't particularly care about Alfred's opinion, but she does care about Tim, Dick, and Babs. Babs loves Alfred, but he is not the one who kept her communicating with Bruce in the 90s as Oracle. That was Tim and to some extent Dick. Steph (eventually) loved Alfred, but Alfred is not why she started working with the Bats or why she became Robin or Batgirl. That was, for better or worse, heavily connected to her relationship with Tim.

That's why I call Tim the heart of the Batfam; because it's through him that quite a few of these heroes came to be seen as Batman allies in the first place. Part of it's circumstantial; he was Robin at a time when DC was creating several new Gotham-based characters and Tim was a convenient narrative device to convince Bruce to give them a chance (why should he accept them operating in Gotham? Well Tim trusts them, Bruce, why don't you?). But part of it is just...a very deliberate characterization of Tim as someone who a) genuinely wants to be friends with most people and b) wanted to give Bruce a support system to fall back on.

More generally, unless you are a Wayne (biological or adopted), there's no actual reason why Alfred is your "connective tissue" character. In some cases, he may have even actively and openly disliked you. He's generally lovely and nice to have around, but he's also not why you started working out of the Batcave on a semi-regular basis and stuck around to voluntarily deal with Bruce Wayne's emotionally constipated self. Your connective tissue character if you aren't a Wayne is usually one of two people: Barbara Gordon or Tim Drake. And in most cases....it's Tim.

Tim's Ao3 AU

just got the image of tim writing red hood x oc fanfic but the oc is basically tim/red robin and each time the A/N is like

"sorry no beta im mid-shoot out with some gang leaders atm"

and the content ranges from super fluffy to the most degenerative porn wanting to lick his skull and the authors notes are like

"heey sorry for the slow update i got shot again and im forced on bed rest but now i have an excuse to work on the next chapters!!"

now i want a fic where its like

it gets more and more outrageous, and the comments are just people debating whether its real or not and then there's 1 comment.

that comment is like.

"Pick Up Your Phone, Now. -D"

and tims like

"::) im in trouble::)"

theres one person dissing out the red hood and how he's so terrible and will never actually deserve someone loving him and tim replies with

"Loompa Roompa might malfunction for a while"

and the person is like *how the fuck do you know the name of my roombah what the hell is this why it's been turning on and off at night what the fuck*"

tims username is pretty bird or somth bcs thats what jason called him at least once before and hes like yes i can be pretty and a bird i can be whatever you want me to be

(totes not because thats what jason always calls tim in my head no no)

dick just really, really wants answers but also is deeply, deeply concerned

"tim you had a 20k fic of red hood lovingly taking care of you and hugging you like you'd never been hugged before. are you like, okay?"

"you.. you read all of that?"

"that's besides the point. now answer the question"

"i dont know how to feel about this"

"how do you think i feel? i didnt need to know about any of it"

"and yet you do. curiosity killed the cat, dick."

"alright i wont bother you if you promise to talk with dinah or some jl approved therapist about... the hugging touch starved things. if you dont tho ill just send jason your ao3 account babs said he has one so he can see all your shit'

"i think i would feel better if you just stabbed me"

dick makes a lemon bitten face.

"..."

"..."

"you saw that too, huh."

"yep."

"i dont have a kink for being stabbed. i have a jason fetish. just him and whatever he decides to do to me so dont worry i wont be out getting stabbed by randos"

"I'm glad but also i wanna circle back to the jason fetish part i feel like thats something i should worry about"

20k fanfic where tim just rants about jasons soft hoodie

jason, meanwhile, he sees someone w the username idk PrettyBirdRedHoos in his comments and hes concerned someone figured out he was robin but goes to look and this persons bookmarks are all just fics written by a 'PrettyBird" user and all of them are red hood/oc, and some of them is like; piercing kink, some of them are 20k fics where the oc falls asleep wearing their hoodie, one of them is a very specific scenario where the red hood 'playfully attacks' the OC on top of a tall building and they fuck nasty and jay is like

this. is too detailed. to be a coincidence innit.

and the comments are just people debating how real these scenarios are and every single person that disses RH has something hacked or exposed and jays like 'ah. well, timmy certainly has a hobby."

he could tell him that he knows.

he could also choose to be an absolute tease. forget a hoodie there, wear some bootyshorts here, not wear a binder while wearing a tank-top here, spit out a specific phrase tims used in a fic before just to keep him on his toes. it's fun watching him squirm.

i love the headcannon that both tim and cass look scarily alike, to the point they could be twins.

like they both share the same general lithe build, they’re the same short height, cass has a short bob while tim has his baby mullet, their training is similar due to their backgrounds with lady shiva and the loa, and (depending on your headcanon) both waisan- so i can definitely see instances where they’re confused for each other or where they mess with everyone around them.

cass on patrol in red robin gear so tim can go on a date with bernard:

random thugs seconds away from being one hit k.o’d: yo since when did red robin start melting into the shadows like an eldritch horror?

jason: hey tim -

cass: wrong.

jason: no, im pretty sure you’re tim, i gave you that scar right there in your neck

cass: nu-uh, this is from cain

jason:

cass:

jason: well this got awkward…

steph hugging tim from behind: hey babe

tim: wrong wayne

steph: ew, i should’ve known, your ass isnt nearly as —

tim walking away with his fingers in his ears: lalalalala im not listening to you

damian: i think you’re the only one in this family i respect

tim who has been silently hanging out with him for the past 3 hours: aw thanks damian, i’ve come to love you like a brother too

damian: drake? i thought you were cassandra, my apologies, i retract my previous statement

tim: don’t care, you love me, don’t try to deny it

lady shiva hugging both tim and cass: my beautiful twins, such well trained weapons, unfortunate that you both ended up with cain

bruce pulling his children back: tim isnt yours…

shiva: well that cant be right, he’s s the spitting image of my sister carolyn, and that birth was far too painful to only produce one small child

tim: woah full circle, my drag-sona is called caroline, maybe you are my mom, i wouldn’t put it past janet drake to adopt

bruce: tim no, you’re not even the same type of asian

cass: too late, we’re blood

shiva: see!

"Lex Luthor's latest character flaw" poll winner, "deciding he wants grandbabies and giving Robin a cloning lab about it". Behold, a new WIP strikes!!

“What,” Tim says, staring blankly at the brightly-lit and airy sunroom full of very obvious cloning technology in the very expensive penthouse that Lex Luthor’s bodyguards just dragged a handcuffed Red Robin and Spoiler into after kidnapping them straight off patrol in the Diamond District in the middle of an active crisis situation with the League of Assassins and disabling all their tech and every single one of their trackers six and a half hours ago, down to the bastardized Kryptonian-tech ones in their back molars and two more in both of their suits that Tim didn’t even know existed, plus the one he put in Steph’s collar that she didn’t know existed. Babs is probably just about feral by now. Bruce is definitely feral by now. 

And Lex Luthor is drinking what appears to be a neon purple protein shake out of a rocks glass while sitting at a neatly-arranged desk in the center of the sunroom lab, looking idly bored and scrolling through whatever’s on his phone with his free hand. 

Alright then, Tim thinks carefully. 

“There you are, I was starting to wonder if I’d gotten al Ghul riled up for nothing,” Luthor says, barely glancing up from his tablet. 

“. . . which al Ghul,” Tim asks with wary dread. 

“All of them,” Luthor says, setting down his tablet to give him a pleasant smile. 

Well, now Tim knows why nobody’s dropped in a skylight to rescue them yet. And also why half of Gotham is currently on fire. 

“Uh,” Steph says, glancing around the sunroom lab. “So like, lead-lined glass in here, then, or . . . ?” 

“We’re in Connecticut, so no,” Luthor replies dismissively. “Anyway, the Boy Scout always gets suspicious of too much lead in one place. Which I personally find darling, since anyone in Metropolis without at least a lead-lined and soundproofed bedroom is essentially asking for Kryptonian voyeurs, whether intentionally or not on said Kryptonians’ parts. Also, privacy laws exist for a reason. As do patents, copyrights, attorney-client privilege, HIPAA . . .” 

“Connecticut?” Steph repeats incredulously. “What the frick is in Connecticut?” 

“Currently, us,” Luthor replies matter-of-factly. “Hope, Mercy, do me a favor and go check the security systems manually, just in case any invasive species of vermin have gotten into them. Also, yes, there is kryptonite, and no, there is actually much more than you’re theorizing.” 

“You have literally no idea how much kryptonite we’re theorizing,” Steph says as the bodyguards both leave with an affirming nod. Luthor gives her a pitying look, then turns his chair a few degrees towards Tim. Tim immediately expects the inevitable threat or ultimatum, and braces himself for–

“I’d apologize for all the fuss, but I don’t actually care about inconveniencing you and don’t see the point in pretending I ever would,” Luthor informs him. Tim stares blankly at him again. What is even happening right now? “Now then, what are your intentions in regards to ‘Supernova’, as I hear someone’s started calling himself now. ‘Themself’? I’m not sure if ‘Supernova’ is meant to be gender-affirming or more a ‘too old to stick with ‘Superboy’ but there are already three ‘Supermen’ active and the whole, you know, general stubborn individualism they’re so fond of. Or ‘he’s’ so fond of. Whichever."

Tim stares at him. 

“Is this supposed to be a trap for Supernova or a shovel talk for me?” he asks, because a) he’s not telling Lex Luthor anything about Kon’s gender or personal choices that Kon hasn’t publicly stated, and b) only Lex Luthor would actually kidnap two active vigilantes in the middle of a crisis he’d apparently pre-arranged to give a–well, no, Bruce would also do that, definitely. But this is not a Batman talk, either way. 

Batman’s “talks” all involve tests, for one thing, so actually so far this is an improvement. 

“It’s an engagement present,” Luthor says pleasantly. 

Tim’s brain crashes, then does the slowest reboot of his life. He’s recovered from concussions faster, he’s pretty sure. 

“They’re . . . not engaged, though?” Steph says skeptically. “Or, like, even dating?” 

“Red Robin’s commitment issues are his own problem, not mine. I’ve got a schedule to keep,” Luthor replies dismissively.