Latest Posts by detective-pancake - Page 2

I want to add to this. I reblogged it before I actually thought of what I wanted to say, but it finally connected in my head. I agree with all of this, but it was mainly the realization that what the fandom calls his sudden "traumadumping", as funny as it is, is literally just him attempting to make Ren feel close to him without any real vulnerability.

He talks about his mom with Ren unprompted, and says he hasn't told anyone this before, and that's true- because he hates feeling pitied. He doesn't want to feel weak, but he does want to be cared for. He wants to be supported, by anyone, but most people would react to his hardship with sympathy that he doesn't need or believe he deserves or earns. So he instead opens up to Ren because he sees them on equal footing. They're on the same page, and he wants Ren to feel a connection to him even if it's entirely fabricated and calculated. It's partially due to habit because, y'know, Detective Prince mask requires him to do this already in general, but also because so much of his real hardship is locked up so seeking a real connection requires the melodrama.

For me, I had this realization remembering when he walked into Leblanc the first time. He sees Futaba and he says "You must be Wakaba Isshiki's daughter" and then after he gets chewed out by Sojiro, he starts talking about how he doesn't feel wanted anywhere. Then seemingly unrelated, he talks about his mom. It feels to me like he's trying to say "if you can care about Futaba, then you should care about me."

He hasn't had a support system, so the need for just someone, anyone to care, even though they don't know him and what he's done, is so strong. He hates being pitied because he doesn't see himself as weak, and he doesn't think he deserves sympathy, so why would he share anything more than necessary? The third semester is the inverse of this. Everyone knows too much, so now the care he craved for so long feels way too exposed. It's too vulnerable, and he never thought he would have earned it if he shared this much, even from Ren. So ultimately the trust he earned has the opposite effect, and now his prior "see me and love me" mask has been replaced by a "leave me alone and hate me" mask.

Just said something about this on twitter but out of everything in 3rd semester that’s meant to show the contrast between akechis behavior pre-engineroom and post-engineroom I honestly think this specific change in sprite expression does it best

The first one looks directly at you because he makes this face when he’s trying to gain sympathy points / connect with whoever he’s talking to. Okay yeah he uses it when he was talking about his mother at leblanc and the bathhouse which definitely drew from a place real sadness but it was still a calculated part of his attempts to endear himself. And the second one is the exact opposite. It barely shows up and when it does it’s only for 1-2 (?) dialogue boxes a piece. It’s the expression he makes when he can’t immediately hide his emotions. The quick turning away / avoidance of eye contact is so you Don’t connect with the little hints of genuineness that manage to slip out for the two seconds that they last. Maybe so he doesn’t have to see your face if you do? Anyway. TDLR I just think it’s nice to focus less on his crazy talk and meangirlisms and acknowledge that they’re 100% also being used to rein in the fact that he’s progressively losing his grip on masking “the real akechi” from sight 100% of the time. At every point in the game he only wants his real self to be seen in tiny, entirely controlled sneak peeks, and only when he thinks it benefits him. agh

Realized something so funny about Yusuke while playing Strikers.

1. He suggests that the Phantom Thieves go to Kyoto on their vacation because he really wants an art tour, and he immediately gets vetoed. They then plan a barbecue, and he gets excited for that but then plans change when the Metaverse returns and they go on their road trip, so he gets deprived of that too. But every single time their vacation gets brought up he acts like these things are going to happen. "What about our Kyoto excursion" "our barbecue extravaganza" he is in his own little world where the Thieves listen to him. They actually do eventually go to Kyoto and he STILL doesn't get his art tour.

2. Zenkichi tells them that Alice Hiiragi went to the same school as the Thieves and Yusuke pipes up like "SHE WENT TO KOSEI HIGH??" Even though he is the only member of the Thieves who didn't go to Shujin Academy.

3. The scene where they discuss how they're going to go on their road trip without a vehicle and he announces that he has money like it's HIS MOMENT. Like it's the moment he's been waiting for his whole life, and Futaba responds "keep your snack money, Inari". Later he makes a comment about how he's gone from "rags to riches".

Every single case of this he gets the dramatic cut-in thing, so what I'm saying is Yusuke is convinced he's the main character through all of Strikers. Like he goes through the motions assuming the world will bend at his whimsy and the other Thieves just sigh and move on.

A free gambling addiction with a side of space politics

The last tag you originally put got me thinking about Hereward again, and dammit we NEED to rant about this later because I'm so interested

are you still there? are you still you?

I cannot help but find this one detail in Strikers endlessly funny. The game introduces Sophia and it's all like "What is Sophia's power? Is it a persona?? Keep playing to find out :3" and it's obviously going to be some kind of reveal or mystery they solve. I haven't finished the game yet, so I still don't know- but the point is her "Persona" skills and gameplay mechanics are the same as the other actual personas, which is an obvious plot hole that leaves no room for a reveal. So you would think that the game would come up with some serious sensical way to rectify this right?

Wrong, they literally just- slap a question mark at the end of all her Persona skills and call it a day.

It's "Dia?" because we think it's Dia, since it works the same, so let's just call it Dia and stop asking questions. It's so funny though from a gameplay perspective, because they could have just left it alone and hoped nobody would question it, but instead they put in the effort to put that little reminder that it's not confirmed to be a persona- but also want the ability to integrate her into the framework seamlessly. They were like "we can't have our cake and eat it too? Watch us" and then did exactly that.

This is why his introduction cutscene is so hilarious to me. It starts with showing this devastating and tragic subway accident on the news, and then the next thing you know there's this silly teenage detective thoroughly disappointed that his coworker is subjecting him to conveyor belt sushi. It's so funny to me that this face is literally him right after his most recent heinous crime broke the news:

P5r has a lot of writing flaws generally But you have to admit. no matter how you view his character “highly marketable anime Pretty Boy who keeps going ‘woaww Protagonist you’re so interesting <33’ is actually a hired assassin and is acting like that because he’s actively planning your murder” is an objectively hilarious plot point

Hear me out- I was thinking about how in Strikers all the Thieves have different outfits, and notably Makoto seems to have become much more comfortable in her own skin and expressing herself that way. She's literally wearing a crop pleather jacket, and she ROCKS it. So what I'm saying is, if Haru tried pastel goth, she would be sold. She would be immediately and irreversibly sold and would never go back.

The funniest thing about this to me is thinking about this with makoharu. Whether or not you ship it, it's still funny to me that it's literally just:

Punk biker butch lesbian and her pastel goth plant girlfriend who chops firewood as a hobby and is also secretly a butch.

Like- they are practically a lesbian stereotype checklist, it's so funny to me. I love them so much

RIP Yusuke's Kyoto excursion/barbecue extravaganza

He wants that barbecue so effing bad 😭

My friend doesn't use Tumblr, but they said something that just feels like something I would read here and it's funny so I'm sharing it.

"The butterfly effect is actually so crazy to think about, like I could’ve built a nuclear bomb and blown up Australia because in the year 200 some dude decided he wanted to eat a strawberry instead of a grape."

a shuake commission for @tzviaariella’s lovely Pirate AU fic, A Brig too Far! I’m such a sucker for classic tarot imagery… and pirates… and these rival losers… Truly kismet ⚔️💖🏴‍☠️

not pictured here: the rest of the Phantom's crew groaning loudly and walking away before they have to witness whatever these two are going on about now

(have all you pirate AU lovers read @tzviaariella's Brigverse series yet because AAAAAAA)

I agree with every bit of this and I (somehow) have even more to add. Akechi living is fundamentally not only better for his arc, for Joker's arc, for the theming of the third semester and persona 5 as a whole, but also (and most importantly) for shuake. I'll detail why in this comprehensive essay/hj

For the same reason you said, Akechi went into his plan without believing he could heal or had any semblance of a future. It never mattered to him and was never on his radar. Being forced to forge a future for himself after everything is said and done would be infinitely better for him than dying as a plot device. It also gives Joker the closure he needed, as Akechi was the only one he couldn't save (and arguably in a lot of ways, Joker was the only one who ever even got close to accomplishing). I also add to this saying that Akechi's survival being ambiguous adds to this even more, because instead of tying it into a neat little bow where Joker got the future with Akechi that he wanted and they can heal together, it's more like Joker maybe got a second chance. The possibility of closure is present, and that's more than enough.

Which leads me into the theming of the third semester. The whole point is Maruki doesn't believe that people can heal from trauma and come out better for it. He believes that trauma will always eat away at a person negatively, and erasing it is the only permanent "fix". Just by having the possibility of Akechi's survival, this actually reinforces Ren's choice to reject Maruki. It proves that a happy future for them is still possible. Just like any of the other thieves, Akechi and Ren can both carve the future they want for themselves, even after Akechi never believed he could.

As for shuake, Akechi's survival is arguably the best outcome to represent their bond. The glove was a promise for them to rematch their duel, yes. Which by extension is a promise that they will see each other again. On one hand you have Akechi's death and his glove in Joker's possession as dramatic irony that fate is too cruel to support such a bold promise. But then he shows up in the third semester, therefore facilitating the hope that the glove's symbolism provided. Ren choosing to reject Maruki's reality is him repaying Akechi for continuing to keep the promise for a rematch, basically saying "I choose to respect you because our promise matters to me". Thematically, Akechi's ambiguous survival is the inverse of this. It's the sappy cliche that the glove/promise is set in stone, and not even fate can deprive them of that rematch. The only thing that can do so is the player choosing not to respect their bond. Something something "you know where to find me/I know where to look"

I think one of my problems with the "Akechi dying is better for the themes of P5R and Joker's character growth and mourning" is like... Okay, but what about Akechi? That framing makes Akechi more of an object to Joker's character, IMO, whereas I think that him surviving in the max confidants ending has so much fascinating potential for Akechi having to live with his mistakes and move forward. He went in expecting to die, to have a simple final act of freedom... But I think him being forced to keep living, to face every day one at a time, to find ways to make peace with what he did and live in the world is just infinitely more compelling from a storytelling standpoint. For Akechi, I think it's a better outcome because it's lacking in elegant simplicity. Even if he lives, he was still willing to die for the sake of everyone's freedom. His survival doesn't erase that. It may "lessen" Joker's choice to reject Maruki's reality, but I think it also makes accepting that reality incredibly cruel, when a strong enough bond with him is enough to save his life and make a miracle happen. Mona describes the world itself as cognition. In P5's vanilla ending, he says it was the PT's bonds that allowed him to continue to exist as a cat in the real world. Given the significance of a maxed confidant making him appear in the postcredits, I believe that it is very simple to read his survival being because of that bond. That wish that they both shared, as confirmed by the Royal artbook. If you prefer exploring the grief and mourning, that's completely fair, but I think there are many ways to interpret Royal's themes, and Akechi living in a harsh reality where you can't escape your past but you can heal and do better is still very on point with what P5R is all about. Unlike P3, which centers more heavily on death, P5R simply touches on it as a part of its greater narrative. And even in P3, you can save a certain character from death via player choice and connections. So, yeah. :p

I agree with this completely, but I want to add some things. I think something that I've seen people not realize is that in this framework Maruki has no care for the dead. He never cared about Kasumi, or about the sibling's bond with each other, because if he did he could have just brought Kasumi back or tried even a little bit to understand the underlying truth behind Sumire's grief stricken warped perception of her late sister. Instead, Maruki facilitates what she claims she wants, which is to become this warped perception of her sister. To match the strength she idolized. It's the same with Akechi. Akechi's wishes don't matter, Maruki wants to repay Ren for unintentionally giving him the key to accomplishing his goals, and to an extent he sees himself in Ren. Just like how Maruki didn't attempt to understand the truth behind the bond of the Yoshizawa siblings, he didn't attempt to understand the bond between Ren and Akechi. It's not enough that Akechi is alive and """"happy"""" with Ren, they had a unique dynamic fueled by their experiences, and Maruki's shallow understanding of them and what they "want" could never accurately replicate it. He thinks sanding off Akechi's jaded worldview and trauma will make him easier to love, and we know that's not true. Not to Ren. Akechi's autonomy is not granted to him because it would in Maruki's eyes, defeat the purpose of bringing him back as the perfect companion he thinks Ren always wanted but could never have.

This is a big reason why I have problems with people who claim to love shuake but also believe Maruki is right or prefer the bad ending narrative wise. It's feeding into the same toxicity Maruki does. Maruki doesn't value Akechi individually, he is only present as a ghostly giftwrapped puppet for Ren to love. People tend to fall into the trap that Maruki's reality provides, and that's that "look at this character you have grown attached to. Don't you want them happy?" So they are forced to deal with the cognitive dissonance of safe comfort for the character, or what the character would want. Anyone who claims to love Akechi and Ren together but prefers the bad ending doesn't actually care about the bond they have. It's because they play as Ren and they want his "happiness".

Adding onto this because I've yapped for this long so I might as well, I could apply this to any of the other thieves as well. Someone might spend the entire game wishing for Ann to be happy with Shiho, and then when Maruki provides that of course they would consider accepting the deal. But they seem to forget that the only reason they became attached to Ann in the first place is because of the experiences she went through in the course of the game. The Ann they grew to love is NOT the Ann that has Shiho in Maruki's reality. It's an important distinction to make.

forever thinking about royal’s bad ending. my thing with it is that maruki doesn’t necessarily give anyone what they want most, he gives them what’s most appropriate for them to want within a maruki-approved framework. iirc there’s a really interesting text sequence in the game where he just straight up changes someone’s career because they’re not “good” at it, regardless of whether that’s what they actually want. why struggle at all? ever? right?

and so ultimately i don’t think goro akechi’s greatest wish is necessarily ren. i think it’s a wish for sure, but his greatest wish is his own agency. despite any regrets he has and the fact that shido and yaldabaoth treated him like a pawn, he's generally pretty adamant about owning his choices and their consequences. he doesn't want that erased. and instead, you end up with pleasant boy™ if you take maruki’s deal. maybe maruki (incorrectly) thinks sanding off all of akechi’s rough edges will make him easier for ren to love. but the crux of it is really that maruki has to essentially lobotomize him to preserve the illusion of his perfect reality, because their ideologies are so diametrically opposed that akechi would spend every waking moment fighting back.

this isn’t to undermine ren’s importance to akechi btw — he explicitly acknowledges that he wishes they had met earlier, and there are countless moments throughout their confidant that underscore how much it means to him that they mirror each other so well. he absolutely does want more time with ren, just not under these circumstances.

and that’s also what makes ren’s choice on 2/2 doubly devastating. he knows that either way he loses akechi. and if he takes maruki’s deal, he loses him knowing that his last moments with the real akechi involved the two of them being unforgivably out of sync.

The two characters I thought of immediately:

i love when a character has something terrible happen to them and as a result they see themself as, essentially if not literally, a ghost. and so that means they only can (and have to) do what ghosts do, ie get revenge and then cease to exist. easy as that. but then halfway through this ghost vengeance they realize hey actually i might still be a human person. with human needs. that’s incredibly inconvenient, considering how much i’ve invested in this whole ghost thing