People Who Act Like Batman Isn't "judge Jury And Executioner" Because He Doesn't Kill People Are Like.

people who act like batman isn't "judge jury and executioner" because he doesn't kill people are like. genuinely so funny to me because. they're very obviously thinking of "executioner" as like. the stereotypical guy with axe who chops people heads off, and not, yknow, the literal definition of the idiom itself, which is about someone who has the ability to judge and then subsequently punish someone unilaterally. which is quite literally what batman does.

he has the ability to decide what is a "crime" to him, he is the one who decides whether people are guilty of those crimes, and he is the one who executes their punishment. the severity of the punishment doesn't matter - he is unaccountable to anyone else, and indeed is allowed to commit as many crimes as needed to reach his arbitrary ideal of "justice."

the ideal of batman is this: a man who is so fundamentally changed by an act of senseless violence that he takes it upon himself to fight back against the rot and corruption in the world. he does this not through political activism, not through ridding himself of his wealth in favor of a greater good, not through community outreach, but through an individualistic fantasy of being a hero.

and you'll say: charlie, but he does do that !!! he donates his money all the time, he funds social programs, hospitals, orphanages, gets people jobs -

and i will say this: so why don't things get better?

because here's the base of it. gotham, at its core, can't get better. no matter what bruce wayne does, there will always be more crime, more villains, more death, more people for batman to beat up in back alleys. because that's what sells.

reoffending rates don't matter in gotham, prison reform doesn't matter in gotham, what actually causes crime doesn't matter in gotham because that doesn't sell books.

and so here it is; dc has unintentionally created a world where batman can't win, but can't be wrong, and where thousands of nameless, faceless, only-created-to-die civilians must be pushed into the meat grinder that is gotham, to fuel bruce wayne's angst and vindicate his constant, tireless, noble fight against the forces of evil.

and then: a new robin, who is poor and who's parents are dead or gone because of this cycle; who is happy go-lucky and hated by editors and fans for being robin, for not being dick grayson, for being poor.

and this robin is written, unintentionally or not, to be angry at the ways in which batman's (the narrative's) idea of justice is detached from its victims. bruce seems perfectly fine to allow countless unnamed women to be at risk from garzonas in his home country, yet robin is the one who is portrayed as irrational and violent.

this robin is not detached from gotham in the way bruce wayne is: this robin is a product of gotham.

(and here's the thing. you can't punch aids. you can't fight a disease with colorful fights and nifty gadgets. and how would robin dying from aids add to batman's story; it would call into question the systemic changes that haven't been made in gotham. how does a child get aids, in batman's city?)

so robin dies, and then bruce (the narrative) spends the next couple of decades blaming it on him. it is jason's fault; he was reckless, he just ran in, he thought it was all a game. if only bruce had seen what was coming, if only he could have known that jason wasn't rich enough or smart enough or liked enough to be robin.

batman gets a little more violent, a little more self destructive. he hurts people more and almost (!!) kills a couple guys. this is bad because it's self destructive and "not who he is." it is not bad because batman should not be able to just beat people up when he's angry.

and then he gets a shiny new robin - who is all the things jason "wasn't": rich and smart and rational and he doesn't put who batman is into question. batman and robin are partners, and jason is a grave and a cautionary tale, and (crucially here) never right.

the joker kills thousands and it doesn't matter because they were written to be killed.

batman beats up thousands and it doesn't matter because they were written to be criminals.

and then jason comes back, and nothing has changed. there is a batman and a (shiny! rich!) robin and the joker kills thousands. (because it sells)

and jason is angry - he has been left unavenged - his death has meant nothing, just as willis' had, just as catherine's had, just as gloria's had, just as -

thousands. ten of thousands. hundreds of thousands. written to be killed.

but one of them gets to come back.

and he is angry - not only at the joker, but at bruce (the narrative) - because why is the joker still alive (when thousands-)

here is the thing - jason todd is right. not because the death penalty is good, not because criminals deserve to die, not because of everything he says -

but because of what he calls into question. why is the joker alive?

because he sells books.

and dc has written a masterful character, through no fault of their own, because jason knows what is wrong, and he knows who is at fault - batman. (the narrative)

so the argument that bruce can't kill because he's not judge jury and executioner; the argument that jason is a cop or that jason is insane or that jason is in the wrong here; they hold no weight.

batman can't kill the joker because the joker sells comic books.

and jason can't kill the joker because the joker sells comic books.

so he will beg and plead and grovel - he will betray everything that is himself, he will forsake his family and his city and kill himself - just so that bruce (the narrative) will let the joker die.

he was condemned to death by an audience, and after he came back he has spent his whole life looking us in the eyes and screaming, asking, pleading; why is the joker still alive?

why are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands (the number doesn't matter, see, because they're just a number. not people. not real.) why are we expendable for his story? why did i have to die just for nothing to change?

and the answer is money. and the answer is the batman can never be wrong. and the answer is shitty writing. and the answer is -

nothing jason can ever change.

which is the worst of it all. he is a victim with no power, and no one else in the world can see it. he is raging and crying and screaming at his father and his writers and you - and it doesn't matter. jason doesn't matter. and he knows it.

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yes So much of the guilt surrounding Jason's death is meta pointed at the audience Jason being replaced by Tim to better represent the middle and upper class white kids that bought the comics only amplifies everything Jason's story stood for only amplifies the helplessness of his character in the overall narrative I despise how much DC underuses such a golden opportunity for meta commentary on the medium it's always everyone has died what's the big deal they all 'died' in story but not as a character in the meta Jason's death was a death to us It was a death caused by us as a collective It's an unintentional piece of contemporary art in that is undervalued and underutilized

Difference between Bruce and Dick as Batman.

So I know that there's a lot of temptation to compare Bruce as Batman to Dick or Damian, and Dick as Batman to Damian, often with a "oh well obviously Bruce was meaner/Dick was nicer", but I do think they have a neat contrast that fandom often overlooks (as well as some parallels).

comic panels showing leslie thompkins leaning over an injure dick grayson (as a kid). she turns to bruce, who is in the foreground, looking away, and says "Bruce what in god's name happened to this boy? He looks like he's been through a thresher!" Bruce says "Just take care of him, Leslie. Alfred will explain everything." Leslie says "you're not leaving?" Bruce says "I'm sorry, I have to go"

Robin: Year One #3

on a rooftop in the rain, bruce wayne (batman) is approaching the joker and the joker has a gun on him. bruce says "I'll give you purity..." Joker says "Uh, uh, uh -- I don't share your absurd anti-firearms fetish, remember --" We see dick grayson (robin, as an adult) climbing up on the roof with a grapple behind joker. joker turns and shoots him in the shoulder.

bruce shoves the joker down while shouting "robin!" and runs to dick as dick falls. he looks over the side of the building to check on dick and says "Robin? My god, robin --" We see the joker smiling, and dick's legs have been tangled up in the grapple, preventing him from falling to the ground

dick lifts himself up, trying to grab the ropes that are holding his legs, and says "I... I can make it, Batman -- get him..." bruce asks "Can you hang on, son? I have a madman to deal with --" dick, who now is holding onto the rope with his arms, says "do it."

Batmatn #408

dick as batman is crouched over a bleeding damian as robin. dick says "Don't move! How much pain are you in?" Damian says "Pain? I'm paralyzed below the waist. I can't feel anything at all. Just tell... tell that girl we're even." Jason todd says "Don't you see? Did ou see what I just did?" Dick stands up, and yells at Jason and says "You brought a monster to gotham! You dragged all of us into your world of chaos! And we just saved your miserable life, Jason!"

dick continues: What was this? Some kind of suicide attempt? What were you thinking?" Jason reaches a hand out and says "You don't have the stones to protect his city. And I can take you down any day! So let's have your best shot, 'batman"!"

dick reaches a hand out, almost gently, and says "Look at yourself, Jason. you're a mess. Everything's a mess. Stop all this... and let us help you."

we see commissioner gordon now, mostly in shadow, as dick has gone back to kneeling near damian. Gordon says "... my men say there's no sign of flamingo. Looks like he's buried under all that rubble. How's the boy?" Dick says "He was shot five times at close range, commissioner. He's in a bad way. But Robin's a tough kid, right?"

Batman and Robin #6

Dick and Bruce both will deal with whatever current threat exists, before fully helping wounded Robin, getting a verbal "I'm fine" confirmation. They clearly do care about Robin. But they also have an obligation to protect people Bruce tries to physically stop joker. Jason's not fighting Dick, but he is trying to talk him down and talk him into getting help, like he did in Battle for the Cowl. The characters also generally avoid a wounded Robin -- it's just easier to see for Bruce, because Leslie calls Bruce out on it "you're leaving (to go deal with this?)" whereas no one questions Dick leaving Damian once he's got medical care and doing his own mission to revive zombie bruce. I imagine this is partially from guilt (we do see Bruce blaming himself for Dick's close call, and Dick framing Damian as his responsibility in Battle for the Cowl) and also possible due to the whole 'batman has a job, robin's physically OK now so time to help protect people' thing.

A strong difference is after the character's get injured and treated. Bruce becomes overprotective, and continues being emotionally distant, which understandably upsets Dick. He is so overprotective he benches Dick each time he is wounded seriously, and that creates friction between them.

next comics show a different art style, the art style from robin: year one. jim Gordon, on the roof of the police station at night, says "If I find out otherwise, everything changes between us. I meant what I said before." Bruce wayne (as batman) has his back to jim and swirls his grapple, preparing to leave. He says "Robin's retired. You have my word."

comic panels showing dick grayson, arm in a sling and bandages on his chest, sitting up in bed. bruce wayne is standing next to him and putting a hand on his shoulder. Dick says "you're alive...?" Bruce says "easy, it's okay. You were dreaming." Bruce walks to the window and looks out, so his back is to dick. he asks "how do you feel?" Dick says "Like... like I fell off a building... twice." Dick smiles and says "Occupational hazard, right? Just give me a couple of weeks... and I'll be back out there with you." Bruce looks down and says "No, dick..."

dick looks surprised and asks "What?" Bruce says "This was all a terrible error in judgment. Gordon was right. You're just a boy .what the hell was I thinking?" Dick says "Bruce... what are you saying?"

Robin: Year One

next comic panels are in 1980s style, with adult dick, injured in bed with bandages, bruce as batman (with his mask off) and alfred pennyworth. alfred is applying a bandage to dick. dick says "Well I'm not a child -- and I'm not dead, either! I just can't go along with what you're saying." Bruce says "What, that the joker's the meanest of mean little kids?" Dick says "No -- that I'm a kid! And that 'Robin' is better off left dead --" Bruce cuts him off "You almost did die tonight, dick -- and had you, the joker would not have been responsible. I would."

dick asks "Are you saying that it hasn't been great? That I haven't been your strong right arm?" Bruce says "You have, son -- but we've been lucky. In what I do, there is no place for a child." DIck clenches his hands in a fist and says "A child!" Alfred leans over him and touches his shoulder. he says "don't excite yourself, master dick -- you've been wounded." DIck says "I'll say I've been wounded -- plenty of times, but never this deep --" Bruce says "If by that you mean I've wounded you, son, I'm sorry. And you are a man now, -- man enough to accepte my decision"

Batman #408

Contrast this to Dick's general lack of protectiveness. Nothing changes when Damian gets wounded as Robin. Which works well (emotionally) for Damian and it works for the conventions of the genre.

Dick is generally not portrayed as very emotionally overprotective when Damian is injured, and when Damian is captured, he often expresses more verbal concern for the people who captured Damian than Damian himself.

a comic panel showing dick as batman, leaving damian (in civilian clothes, in a neck brace) on a building as he shoots his grapple and jumps off. Dick says "My responsibility. Stay right here and no more jumping around -- you're lucky you're still able to walk. And I'm in the middle of a serious team up"

Batman and Robin #9 - Damian, with a new metal spine, got thrown off a building by the zombie batman dick accidentally revived.

next comic panel shows dick grayson as batman and commissioner gordon in a room in front of a screen. dick runs towards the viewer, grimacing, and says "Tell your men to keep him away from the joker! We're on our way. Damn!"

dick hops in his batmobile and says "He could kill him!" JIm gordon follows him and fastens his seatbelt. he says "my god. Does that poor kid have any idea what he's dealing with?" Dick says "It's not him. It's the joker I'm worried about.

Batman and Robin #13

comic panel showing the batmobile driving down the street, police cars on the side. we do not see renee montoya (the question) and dick grayson (batman) in the batmobile, but they are there. there is a dialogue bubble from the passenger's side (renee) and she says "looks like envy had a visit. she has jackson canton." Dick says "Which means Robin was found out." Renee says "it'll be okay." Dick says "yeah, you don't know this robin..."

there's a panel showing damian as robin, next to azrael (michael lane) who has a sword drawn and they are fighting some people one of whom is a glowing woman. dick's dialogue bubble continues "... it's not him i'm worried about."

Detective comics annual #11

I should note: I think it would be uncharitable to assume that Dick expressing more verbal concern that Damian will hurt the supervillains who have him kidnapped means Dick doesn't care about Damian. We see in Batman and Robin some of Dick being worried when Damian is shot, and we see Dick telling Azrael they need to find a quicker way to get to Damian when Azrael is talking about how to find the guys who took him. And also, you know. I just don't think Dick would care more about the supervillains that Damian. But Damian is regarded as a tough kid, he'll be fine no matter what, and he represents a threat to other people (interestingly, something I've seen fans accuse... Bruce of doing to damian? Even though Bruce was much more protective and wasn't worried about Damian killing Nobody when Damian was going with Nobody, or Damian killing the Saturn Club guys when Damian let himself by kidnapped by the Saturn club guys to find civilians to rescue)

But I am analyzing here the actions he does and the words that he says, and what the writer dedicates panel time to. I think it's interesting that Bruce and Dick's similarities with regards to Robin getting injured involve emotionally removing themselves from the situation and focusing on cases, and then their differences are in the follow up. Dick often maintains a status quo, which is satisfying to the Robin character (he does not feel like he's being fired or judged) and fits with the conventions of the genre. Bruce often becomes overprotective to a degree where the Robin character feels estranged from him, and is excluded, resulting in alienation from robin and coming across as the "bad guy".

I find it very interesting that Dick avoids repeating mistakes of the past that Bruce made (becoming overprotective of Robin to an alienating degree and firing him) by doing things that would be read as callous or uncaring to the reader if he wasn't Dick, I guess.

P.S. I know some people say this is why they regard Morrison's Dick as OOC, but I didn't have any place to fit that acknowledgement in the above paragraphs, but I think it's important to note that this was not just Morrison's Dick. In general Dick as Batman era was way different than Nightwing Rebirth era Dick or even post 2011 Dick.

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batfam batman dick grayson damian wayne bruce wayne dc comics batman and robin character analysis robin 2009 era batfam stuff detective comics 1937 batman and robin 2009 batman 1940 robin: year one character meta

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lostpimplepatch

3 months ago

Accurate eldest sibling representation.

This is too funny to me.

Fanon!Dick: I would die for my brothers. I want to spend as much time as I can with them, my babies, I love them. Why don't we spend more time together at the mansion? I wish I could move in with them again.

Canon!Dick, with a cursed tendency towards self-sacrifice: Yes, I would die to save my family's life, but for God's sake, LEAVE ME ALONE FOR FIVE MINUTES. No, you can't be my emergency contact, no, I don't need you with me all the time. Thank u <3

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batfam batman dick grayson dc comics batfamily nightwing

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lostpimplepatch

5 months ago

Crying That, The Minute Dick And Babs Get Married And Have A Kid, Bruce Is Like, "Nope, I'm Out, I'm

Crying that, the minute Dick and Babs get married and have a kid, Bruce is like, "Nope, I'm out, I'm a grandpa now and I'm going to be as laser focused on building my life around this as I was focused on being Batman." 0 to 100mph Granddad Bruce, absolutely no in between, I have no notes whatsoever.

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batfam dick grayson bruce wayne barbara gordon bat family batman wayne family adventures dickbabs Give this man a grandkid grandpa bruce wayne batman slice of life batman: dark age

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lostpimplepatch

5 months ago

I read somewhere that its common in Arab culture to refer to someone close to you as your organs, implying you can’t live without them. Like how in english someone would say “my heart” (qalbi), in Arabic someone would also use “my liver” (kabidi) “my lungs” (riati). Notably, “my blood” is “Dami” which is funny bc it’s Damian’s shortened nickname.

Damian’s brothers have been using the nickname for years with or without knowing. I propose that as Damian gets closer to them, and Tim in particular, he responds in kind.

He starts to refer to Tim as “tuhali.”

…it means “my spleen.”

(Edit: this has now been confirmed by several Arabic speakers! Except the pronunciation of Dami (as in my blood) and Dami (shortened) are different which is sad. But my spleen idea works! So I’m happy!)

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batfam batman damian wayne tim drake batfamily batbros this is the funniest shit he absolutely would I love tim spleen jokes tim drake's missing spleen

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lostpimplepatch

4 months ago