Orangesandlemons3 - Orange The Ace

A complete guide to how the asexual community is NOT lying about the pathologization of asexuality and how many aces(even young ones)have had their asexuality tried to be“fixed” and “converted back to normalcy”

Trigger warning : Conversion therapy,abuse

As if the so called ace “”discourse””( which has till now involved aphobes and exclusionists comparing ace people to nazis,pedophiles,white supremacists,slave owners,homophobes, ,talking over ace WOC by white people, telling ace people AND kids to kill themselves,victim blamig and gaslighting ace victims of rape, putting extremely graphic sexual content into asexual tags and sending sexual content to ace minors and adults who are are suffering from sexual trauma even after they told them to STOP ) could not get any worse, we now have these pathetic excuses of human beings accusing ace people of lying about their trauma and abuse just so that they can justify their harassing of ace people.

Im TIRED of seeing these “”highly intellectual people”” keeps repeating bullshit arguments so im gonna make this post addled with appropriate resources and links to handle these two topics:

How asexuality is pathologized

Can the abuse and trauma ace people go through when people try to “convert ace people back to normalcy” and “fix” their asexuality really be called “conversion therapy”?

This is gonna be long,but i hope you will stick with me though this because im going to try as much as possible to make this as source-fuilled and educational for yall. So here we go:

1. Has asexuality really been pathologized?

Short answer,Yes. Many mental health professionals had consideredasexuality an illness throughout history.There are many articles talking about it.Up till 2013, indicators of asexuality like lack of sexual attraction,sexual fantasies towards other people, lack of interest in sex etc were basically classified as Hypoactive sexual desire disorder in the DSM which was revised just to include that all those indicators WOULD be considered as a “symptom” of HSDD unless a person self identified as “asexual” which wasnt much useful since not everyone(especially young people) might know that they are ace and can be pressured by their peers into going through the “treatment” for HSDD .They did the same thing before they removed homosexuality from the DSM.

Heres the long answer :

Throughout history , asexuality has brought out bigots to talk about how “unnatural” it is and how it obviously is a “mental illness/disorder” bc experiencing sexual attraction is always considered an inherent experience to almost all living beings.There are many medical and psychological articles either directly referring to asexuality as a disorder or referring its main indicators like “lack of sexual attraction,sexual feelings towards other people”etc as a mental disorder.

But the most well known instance of pathologization of asexuality is the HSDD (Hypoactive sexual desire disorder).It has been in both The International Classification of Diseases and Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders both which are used by mental health professionals and psychologists to diagnose people.

There was a huge pushback against HSDD by asexual activists bc it categorized all indicators of asexuality like lack of sexual attraction,sexual fantasies towards other people and lack of sexual desire etc as a disorder.As a result, asexuality was officially given an exception in the DSM-V by stating that if a person experiencing all the symptoms of HSDD self ID’d as asexual then they wont be diagnosed with it.This seemed a good enough thing to do and acephobes keep bringing it up to show how “different HSDD is from asexuality” and how “The medical world has “”accommodated”” itself for the comfort of ace people” but this act and the whole concept of a “Hypoactive sexual desire disorder” are considered problematic and have been put through questions not only by ace people, but feminists and activists too . Heres why :

1. The person STILL has to identify as asexual to be not diagnosed.Asexuality still isnt as visible and well known of an orientation so if a person doesn’t know that they’re asexual, the DSM does no work to sufficiently differentiate between these “sexual disorders” and a sexual identity. so it could very well happen that someone who doesn’t know that they’re asexual is convinced by a therapist that they have a sexual abnormality that needs to be corrected(x) .Taking into consideration the fact that a lack of sexual attraction is still seen as a sign of “brokenness” etc , the aphobia ace people face from their peers,how sex is seen an inherent part of one’s relationship and the immense number of ace people who experience internalized aphobia, theres a higher chance of ace people being pressurized into lying about not being ace and being made to go through treatment of HSDD .

2. The asexuality exception is not included in the diagnostic criteria, but a different part of the text. The desk reference version, which is the smaller version most psychiatrists will use because the actual DSM is a monster of a book, only contains the diagnostic criteria. So, unless a doctor is very familiar with the update DSM, you could still be diagnosed despite identifying as asexual. (X)

3.The DSM is put out by the APA, an American organization and is not used internationally in ALL countries.The international appx. equivalent to the DSM is the ICD (International Classification of Diseases) where an exception of asexuality is NOT made like they did in DSM-V. So many countries where DSM-V is not followed are free to diagnose ace people with almost no repercussions.

4.There is till NO distinction made between HSDD and asexuality and all indicators of asexuality are still considered “symptoms” of HSDD. the DSM does no work to sufficiently differentiate between these “sexual disorders” and a sexual identity. so it could very well happen that someone who doesn’t know that they’re asexual is convinced by a therapist that they have a sexual abnormality that needs to be corrected(x) Just putting “All these signs are of HSDD unless a person identifies as asexual” is literally the same as saying “Being attracted to the same gender and/or being attracted to more than two genders is a disorder unless a person identifies as gay/bi”.In fact a very very similar thing was done to homosexuality in the DSM before homosexuality was deleted off entirely as a disorder.

5.Im not even gonna get into the fact that alot of people have pointed out how the big push to keep HSDD in the DSM came from the pharmaceutical companies who need this diagnosis to exist so thatthey can market a drug called Flibanserin and both of these thingshave been called out by both ace as well as non ace feminists bc studies showed it improved very little in terms of sexual satisfaction in its participants and has potentially big risks(x) and MANY women disinterested in sex(weather ace or not) were pressurized to undergo treatment of HSDD and use flibanserin bc of the misogynist belief that women need to put out more than care about their safety white taking it bc thats not the point of this post.

But just for yalls consideration : Just bc there is a disorder in the DSM doesnt mean that its legit.Female hysteria,homosexuality were considered disorders.As an amazing post here said : “until psychology stops operating in terms of “inappropriate behavior” and starts looking at patients’ experiences of symptoms as stressful and unpleasant, it will be an enforcement of ableism first and an aid to the mentally ill last.” . Unless someone goes through some trauma which make them LOSE their capability to feel sexual attraction and desire,i’ll consider any “disorder” which automatically assumes lack of sexual attraction and desire “unnatural”, as doubtful .

So yeah , asexuality still technically remains pathologized and ace people still are at a risk of being diagnosed and being forced/pressurized to undergo treatments which arent usually even that effective and have health risks associated with them.On to the next topic :

2.Can ace people call the trauma and abuse they went through when people tried to “convert ace people back to normalcy” and “fix” their asexuality “conversion therapy”?

First off, Read THIS . Now,

Short answer,Yes. Maybe they might not be under the threat of going through the EXACT conversion therapy which involves basically torture and is legal in like 36/41 states IN AMERICA but then again, so arent those gay people who didnt/dont/wont be living/going to those 36/41 states IN AMERICA but have/are/will be tried to be “converted back to” straightness by their peers.Any way in which non straight people are forced/pressurized to be converted into straight by so called “professionals” and “medical experts” counts as conversion therapy to me bc at the end of the day it doesnt really matter WHAT word you define it as when those trying to “fix” non straight people’s non straightness view those non straight people as someone who needs “fixing”.

Also, saying that ace people’s experience when their peers were trying to “fix” their asexuality isnt AS bad as what gay people go through when their gayness is tried to be “fixed” is…not a good thing to say.Trauma isnt a competition.Telling a person with a sprained leg that another person has a fractured leg doesnt make the first person’s sprained leg hurt any less

Heres the long answer :

Here is the thing.The most “well known” conversion therapy(and in aphobes’ case,the conversion therapy they keep bringing up to discourage ace people from calling their trauma involving attempts to fix them “conversion therapy” ) is the one which is legal in 36 or 41(The data keeps differing from diff sources) states in AMERICA ONLY and basically involves showing homoerotic images and videos to gay/bi people and inflicting some sort of violence/harm on them when them and/or their mind and/or their body shows any sort of interest on such images till they form an aversion to same gender attraction and other forms of torture.I described it as PG rated as possible but if anyone is interested and is NOT at the risk of being triggered they can read the whole process here(x).

Aphobes keep arguing that since no clinic advertises that they will “convert ace people back to normalcy” ,and even IF some ace person IS forced to undergo treatment of HSDD ,their experience doesnt matches the EXACT amount of abuse and trauma gay people go through during conversion therapy, aces arent “allowed” to call their experiences “conversion therapy”.Now , anyone with common sense and general morality will realize how bullshit this is bc aphobes are just putting their american centric rhetorics over ALL aces in THIS WORLD(bc they are ALWAYS considering the american conversion therapy)but i’ll still just prove how WRONG this argument is :

1.This argument is only AMERICA CENTRIC.Aphobes keep saying that since ace people dont go through the exact conversion therapy which is legal in 36/41 states in america,they cant call it “conversion therapy”.Now america is only one country.There are 193 countries in this world.The “valid”Conversion therapy is only there in america.But HOMOPHOBIA is there in ALL countries of this world.Now, If we consider aphobes’ argument as legit, then it would imply that any gay person who suffered through the trauma and abuse of having their identity turned into “straight” by their peers in any country OTHER THAN AMERICA CANNOT call their experiences “Conversion therapy”.That means all the gay people who faced torture in russia (especially in Chechnya)to be “fixed” cannot call their experiences “conversion therapy”.Gay people in Brazil and Jamaica who are tried to be “fixed” cannot call their experiences conversion therapy.I live in south asia,we dont even HAVE any special places dedicated to “convert” gay people.But there are many instances where gay people are hauled to the nearest “religious medical practitioners” who abuse and torture them for WEEKS to “cure” them.I guess those gay people cant even call their experiences “conversion therapy”.THIS IS HOW RIDICULOUS APHOBES SOUND.

2.Not every ace conversion therapy is caused by going through the treatment of HSDD : There are many ace people who have been told that it was their asexuality ITSELF that was a disorder and went through abusive therapies to “cure” it which led to some people ending up self-isolating until they ended up in a psych hospital and some people felt broken and alone after that(x).Many health professionals simply pass off asexuality as some symptomatic of deeper mental health problem and thus not every ace who might have been tried to be “converted back to normalcy” might have been gone through quite a rough treatment too.

3.Telling people that their trauma isnt “”really that bad”” isnt a good thing.Telling them that their trauma dosent really “”qualify”” enough to be considered “”real”” conversion therapy isnt good.Oppression and traumas arent a competition.The abuse and torture gay people go through during conversion therapy isnt gonna make the trauma ace people go through “better” or less severe.Telling women that “at least they arent being human trafficked and beaten by their husbands everyday like in middle east” isnt gonna make them feel better when they are catcalled or sexually harassed at work.If ace people are tried to be “”fixed”” by being forced/pressurized undergo “” treatments”” by so called “professionals” and “medical experts” , it counts as conversion therapy to me bc at the end of the day, ace people’s orientation is still being seen as “something to be fixed into straightness”.

So yeah, ace people CAN call all the abuse they go through to be “fixed” of their asexuality “conversion therapy”.Now that we are done, here are a few examples of ace people talking about their fears and/or experiences about conversion therapy which i havent provided already

If you really want to respect lgbtqa people who have gone through conversion therapy,try to make this world a better place for lgbtqa people so that their identity isnt seen as something to be fixed.Telling group of people you are bigoted against that they cant call their experiences of tried to be fixed “conversion therapy” isnt gonna do SHIT to help the community you think you are trying to protect.Saying that No ace person has EVER went to conversion therapy bc there are “valid proofs” is disgusting.

Asexuality IS a highly marginalized orientation and all your refutes against it WILL be debunked and shot down bc we have sources and real people’s accounts on our sides which is supported by many prominent lgbtqa organizations across the world.All aphobes have is bigotry and a bunch of followers who eat up whatever they say without applying any critical thinking skills to it.

Top 20 Funniest Things about Star Wars, in No Particular Order

1. Darth Maul repeatedly dying and then randomly turning up for absolutely no narrative reason, exclusively to ruin Obi-Wan’s day

2. Hondo Ohnaka in general

2.a. Bonus: Hondo and Maul competing to be Ezra’s Weird Crime Uncle

3. Dave Filoni being forced to spend 6 7 seasons doing narrative backflips to keep Anakin and Grievous from meeting, because of one throwaway line in ROTS about Grievous being short

4. The B1 Battle Droids in any given moment of the Clone Wars, but especially during the movie

e.g. those two droids on top of the cliff at Teth, arguing about seeing the approaching clone army and fighting over the binoculars, and one of them just fuckin FALLS of the cliff and the other one goes “get BACK HERE sergeant”

also e.g. Rex and like, one other guy, completely surrounded by droids and Rex is like “surrender! we have you outnumbered!” and one of the droids is like “hang on” and actually stARTS COUNTING

5. Grievous bailing hard the moment anything goes remotely wrong

6. Anakin stabbing a guy in cold blood as the Imperial March plays in the background and then looking all offended at Obi-Wan and going “WHAT? he was gonna blow up the ship!”

7. Dave Filoni’s incessant need to put wolves in Star Wars

8. the fact that the Mandalorian almost died and earned his clan signet on an errand to fetch brunch for a bunch of jawas

9. Rex’s plan on the Rishi Moon base: “ok so to get into the base currently occupied by droids, i’m going to hold a droid head up to the camera and do my best droid impression and ask them nicely to open the door” and it WORKED

bonus 9.a: that same episode, Cody’s reaction to Rex shooting one of their brothers (as far as he knew) right in the face was “HECK”

10. Kallus, to Ezra and Kanan: ok you have to knock me out so i don’t get caught as a spy. it has to be convincing.

Ezra: ok *uses the force to fucking YEET kallus through like three panes of glass*

Kanan: EZRA

Ezra: WHAT? that is convincing

Kanan: yeah, but i was gonna do it

11. Kylo Ren stalking into the war room and going “i sense… unease… about my appearance.” and all the generals rushing to compliment his new mask

12. those two stormtroopers in TFA walking around the corner, seeing Kylo Ren having a tantrum and beating up a console with his lightsaber, and just quietly backing away

13. Stormtrooper bonking his head in A New Hope

14. Rex bonking his head on a pipe

15. “It’s ok that we’re here.” “It’s ok that you’re here.” “It’s GREAT that you’re here.” “You’re relieved that we’re here.” “THANK GOODNESS you’re here” “Welcome, guys.”

16. the fact that Palpatine was is still so pissed off about Anakin slam-dunking him down the garbage chute at the end of Return of the Jedi that he had a giant pit built in his Secret Backup Fortress specifically so that he could throw Anakin’s grandson down it thirty years later like that level of PETTINESS

17. Darth Bane was voiced by MARK FUCKING HAMIL

18. Boba Fett dies by blind, confused Han Solo going “BOBA FETT?? WHERE????” and spinning around and accidentally backhanding him into the Sarlacc Pit (of course he’s not really dead shhhhhh fuck you disney)

19. those two scout troopers in episode 8 of the Mandalorian, having captured Baby Yoda and radioing in to try to tell Moff Gideon that they captured the asset like “is he available yet” “yeah, he just killed an officer for interrupting him, so it could be a while.” “ugh ok whatever. Standing by. Still.”

20. the fact that, from Obi-Wan’s point of view, ROTS is just fucking bonkers. Like, he and Anakin rescue the chancellor, everything’s going well, he tells Anakin he’s proud of him, and then he leaves to kill Grievous and just when he succeeds and the war is just about over, Cody tries to shoot him off a cliff and when he makes it back to Coruscant, Anakin is slaughtering a bunch of children and swearing allegiance to a Sith Lord and Obi-Wan has NO IDEA what the FUCK happened there

21. Twilight of the Apprentice from Darth Vader’s point of view: you chase down a bunch of Rebels to a secret Sith Planet. You go to the Temple. Surprise! Your old apprentice is there, along with some random jedi kid. She forces the kid to flee the collapsing temple, and then you proceed to have a big ol’ lightsaber fight but like THIRTY SECONDS LATER, a portal opens up in mid-air, the SAME KID but with a different haircut pops out, grabs your apprentice, and just fuckin vanishes. Poof. Gone. Like, that is just something that happened to Darth Vader one day and it’s just something he had to deal with.

22. JJ Abrams dedicating an entire scene in Rise of Skywalker to calling out Rian Johnson’s shitty Luke-related decisions from TLJ. Rey throwing away the lightsaber and ForceGhost!Luke catching it and going “wow hey maybe treat a Jedi’s weapon with a little more respect RIAN” and “hey Rey don’t do what I did and fuck off to the ass-end of nowhere for twenty years and refuse to do anything useful because that was really stupid and pointless and out of character of me, wasn’t it RIAN”