Syscourse - Blog Posts

endogenic syscringe alterrace introjects when you go by only one set of pronouns and laugh at jokes about lean instead of cancelling them for not trigger warning drug use and styrofoam cups and ice:

I seriously need endos to fuck the hell off, what i go through daily isn't fun quirky little game you can decide to play, it is a fucking trauma response and i actually have to waste tons of my energy not to cause any more unreversible damage to the other alters. Having other people in your head isn't fucking funny, they're not just "friends you can have inside jokes with". It's tiring. It's debilitating. It's not knowing what will happen when you're not in front. Is having the others getting potentially exposed to danger and being unable to do anything to protect yourself and/or the body. It's others hating you for doing exactly what you were formed to do. The shame, the guilt, the self hate you constantly have to carry around that came after years and years of terrible trauma. It can sometimes be fun but the main point is it's a fucking disorder. I can't stand you guys fucking de-medicalising it so that you can enjoy a fake ass romanticised version of it. I hope my traumas hit you all at once. I hope you split a pre self-consciousness me. I wish all the worst to y'all

reminder that a group of people with mostly harmless, non-religious opinions are not comparable to a cult!! especially when some of the people in said group are cult survivors or have other forms of religious trauma!! anti-endos are not “forcing” people to join them, they’re simply stating a group with different opinions are wrong and causing harm to a community

second reminder: EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINIONS AND OBVIOUSLY NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO AGREE WITH EACHOTHER, DONT CALL ANYONE—TRAUMATISED OR NOT—THAT THEIR OPINION IS “cult behavior”!! AND YOU WONDER WHY PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH YALL??

———

Would really love if people could stop alluding to anti endos as being a cult when it’s full of legitimate cult survivors, thanks!

dude, why cant people respect DNI’s? it doesn’t MATTER the opinion, everyone deserves to have their own stances and boundaries and it doesn’t matter how bigoted you think their opinions are they said DNI so do. not. interact. you breaking their DNI’s is not going to change their opinion and you’re practically shooting yourself in the foot because now YOU seem like the bigot

one thing i'd like people to talk about more is the fact that being 'endogenic' or 'willogenic' is the same thing as being transDID, transOSDD, transplural, etc,.

i believe most rational people can agree that it's absolutely ridiculous to label yourself a system because it's an 'identity,' but one thing transIDs and endos have in common is that they fully believe serious mental health disorders are labels they can wear.

transIDs and endos are both invalid and disgusting, and should be treated as such, because they're the same thing. the only difference is that endos try to pretend they have a moral high ground and demand your respect. at least transIDs plainly display that they're pieces of shit.

[ID: STOP! this blog is a strictly anti-endo space! pro-endos and endo neutrals, shoo! shoo shoo!]

ok, i dont want to do another lets unpack so imma just say my side on the anti endo/pro endo

i want to be neutral because i agree (and disagree) with points from both. example, i agree that endos can be real systems and that trauma isn’t always the cause, i also agree that it’s not other people’s place to faleclaim systems and that asking ab system’s trauma is NEVER ok in any scenario. on the anti-endo side i agree that some endos are actively causing harm, spreading misinformation, taking resources that aren’t meant for them.

i would just as easily turn on an anti-endo post as i would a pro-endo post. i do not agree with pointless hate and making people feel uncomfortable in their own communities. that’s the part i dislike most ab anti-endos, it’s a lot of pointless hate (yeah that may be a tad hypocritical but i digress).

i’m not going to go back on my post but i can say that you’re right, the inclusive tags shouldn’t have anti-endos in it spreading hate and it is 100% not their place to do so.

when i said some endos are valid i mean the endos who aren’t fetishising the disorder. i mean the ones who don’t treat it like a trend or an accessory. the endos that are just trying to be a system because it’s “qUiRkY” are causing harm and i’m allowed to recognise that without dismissing the actual endos out there.

endos trying to steal systempunk only reinforces that all pro-endos do is steal from real systems lol

Let's unpack what's wrong with this ridiculous statement from an anti-endo:

1) "endos trying to steal" first off, endogenic systems are not stealing. Anti-endos think they own the rights to the word "system" sorry, they don't. No one does.

2) "systempunk" has devolved into a space full of hate and bashing endogenic systems and those who support them. Nobody with an actual brain that pays attention wants to associate being punk with being HATEFUL. Punks don't hate people. Being anti-endo is not and never will be punk, okay?

3) "that all pro-endos do is steal from real systems" this phrasing right here implies that pro-endo traumagenic/DID/OSDD systems aren't real systems because they don't hate other plurals who's existence wasn't initialized by trauma. How are you going to sit here and FAKECLAIM other trauma survivors who don't agree with you being hateful by saying this? How does that look?

Every day anti-endos prove to us more and more that they're a hate group. Oh, and they love to project their actions. They're the ones doing the harm here.

Anti-endos stop harming the plural community challenge: IMPOSSIBLE

let’s unpack what’s wrong with this

1.) “‘endos are trying to steal,’ first off, endogenic systems are not stealing. Anti-endos think they own the rights to the word “system” sorry, they don’t. no one does” while yes i agree, no one “owns” the word/phrase “system” that was not the context of the phrase “endos are trying to steal”, the whole post is about a tag that was made FOR traumagenic systems that was immediately overrun by endos

2.) “‘systempunk’ has devolved into a space full of hate and bashing endogenic systems and those who support them. Nobody with and actual brain that pays attention wants to associate being punk with being HATEFUL. Being anti-endo is not, and never will be punk, okay?” maybe the problem is that system tags were overrun with endo systems, some traumagenic systems (anti-endo or not) said “hey, we want a tag to ourselves where we don’t have to be around people who we either don’t agree with or we’re just straight up tired of seeing” and endos SAW that tag and went “oh a space made specifically for traumagenic systems? we want in!” despite the fact the tag ISNT FOR THEM. i cant talk about the whole punk argument and i wont even try because i don’t know ab it, but i can say that traumagenic spaces are for traumagenic systems regardless of the name. the point of the tag wasn’t the name, it’s the space.

3) "’that all pro-endos do is steal from real systems’ this phrasing right here implies that pro-endo traumagenic/DID/OSDD systems aren't real systems because they don't hate other plurals who's existence wasn't initialized by trauma. How are you going to sit here and FAKECLAIM other trauma survivors who don't agree with you being hateful by saying this? How does that look?” no, the OP is saying that time and time again endos like to infest spaces that aren’t made for them. they are not fakeclaiming. they are not being hateful. they are stating that endo systems decided a tag that was not made for them was theirs.

4.) “Every day anti-endos prove to us more and more that they're a hate group. Oh, and they love to project their actions. They're the ones doing the harm here.

Anti-endos stop harming the plural community challenge: IMPOSSIBLE” actually you’re the one who’s spreading the hate. you saw this post of someone stating that they didn’t like how a tag made for one group was being used by another group. you took it upon YOURSELF to take this post out of context, put words into OP’s mouth and ultimately were the only one spreading hate.

i try to be as kind as possible and i think some endo systems are completely valid but come one people, the point of the syspunk tag was to be traumagenic safe and endos are ruining it. if endos want to be accepted this is not the way to do it. if you guys want a tag, make a tag, dont use traumagenic system’s tags.

endos trying to steal systempunk only reinforces that all pro-endos do is steal from real systems lol

Let's unpack what's wrong with this ridiculous statement from an anti-endo:

1) "endos trying to steal" first off, endogenic systems are not stealing. Anti-endos think they own the rights to the word "system" sorry, they don't. No one does.

2) "systempunk" has devolved into a space full of hate and bashing endogenic systems and those who support them. Nobody with an actual brain that pays attention wants to associate being punk with being HATEFUL. Punks don't hate people. Being anti-endo is not and never will be punk, okay?

3) "that all pro-endos do is steal from real systems" this phrasing right here implies that pro-endo traumagenic/DID/OSDD systems aren't real systems because they don't hate other plurals who's existence wasn't initialized by trauma. How are you going to sit here and FAKECLAIM other trauma survivors who don't agree with you being hateful by saying this? How does that look?

Every day anti-endos prove to us more and more that they're a hate group. Oh, and they love to project their actions. They're the ones doing the harm here.

Anti-endos stop harming the plural community challenge: IMPOSSIBLE

We do not support endos here.

If your an endo "system" FUCK OFf

How endos hurt the wider system community

I’ve seen some people confused on how endogenic people hurt systems so here’s a list of things they do! I might’ve missed something so feel free to add on in comments/re-blogs

Also, before this starts:Our stance on endos varies from alter to alter but the widest understanding is that most of them are misdiagnosing or not aware of their trauma. But still, they’re causing real harm so we dislike them.

1:”Demedicalizing” systemhood

A thing we’ve seen endogenics talking about no longer classifying systemhood as a disorder. This would make proper diagnosing and finding resources even harder. This also includes the fact they argue that systems can form without trauma. With all scientific evidence, endogenics do not exist. Systems come from repeated childhood trauma that stops a child’s personality from developing normally. 

2:Attacking systems

So many systems have been attacked by endos for stuff as simple as having endos in their dni. Considering that these are already traumatized people this is incredibly shitty. I’ve seen them send death threats in vivid detail. I’ve seen them brag about offending traumagenic systems.There’s also words like syscum or traumascum. It’s all very weird

3:Spreading misinformation  

This plays into the first point but the very idea of an endogenic system is misinformation. You cannot choose to split off alters, and trying to can be very harmful. And increases the chances of systems getting attacked for having certain alters. “System hoping” cannot happen and is used to hurt systems who are in vulnerable positions. And most importantly you cannot have a system without childhood trauma.

4:Invading traumagenic spaces

Let’s say hypothetically endogenic systems were a real thing. There is no current scientific baking to this but lets act like there was. They would still be invading our spaces. System communities are safe spaces for traumatized people and endogenics often invade them. It makes those spaces feel less safe

That’s all we have for now. Again feel free to add on. We ask endos do not interact with this(like every post on this blog) 

in addition to the last post (different anon here) claiming they're "invading THEIR spaces" is so funny to me.... no bb you saw a similarity within stereotypical tiktok DID and the concept of tulpamancy and the only thing related in these two posts is that they share the plural tag...

YEAH LOL "non-traumagenics are claiming to have DID!!! DID is caused by trauma!!!" no actually they just... claim to be multiple! they dont claim DID in like 99% of cases, the only times ive seen it is for mixed origin sys

anti-endos worshipping the DSM and citing it as proof that plurality has to be caused by trauma / disordered: Rahhhh you're a liar because this book only used in america has it!!!!!

the helpful ICD, which apparently recognised non-disordered plurality in one of the iterations (not sure which one) and used across the entire world:

SORRY i am just now seeing this but YEAH i actually think i know what ur talking about. im pretty sure there is an ICD document / article about dissociation that mentions non-traumagenic plurality somewheree in it? but dont quote me on this because i saw it like... last year LOL

also the DSM never even says that plurality has to be disordered either? it just says that DID/OSDD-1 are not caused by spiritual or cultural practices, which honestly if anything validates non-disordered plurality? because like that means it acknowledges that identity alterations CAN be caused by things other than DID/OSDD-1

very cheesed to see someone else acknowledging the pervasive hypocrisy in anti-endo spaces. another big one is how they claim their stance is to "protect the community from fakers" or some other insistence that endos/related are bad actors, and proceed to.. you know. exclude other disordered systems from osddid spaces on the basis of supporting endos. a la the very blatant implication of "you're fake if you believe in them because a Real System wouldnt believe in them". like dude. seriously? where am i

yeah, also like... claiming endos are "fakers" is always so weird to me because... in order to fake DID or OSDD-1, wouldnt you kind of need to claim that you HAVE the disorder??? endos dont claim DID or OSDD-1 to begin with LMFAOO so how would they be faking it

omg lol i wws just explaining the same thing to my partner, that it’s hypocritical how they understand didosdd is more than just alter disorder and then turn around and claim alter = didosdd? every time i argue with antiendos it devolves into the most basic argument

“endos are faking having didosdd! theyre invading our spaces!”

“okay but the majority of endos dont claim to have didosdd, that’s like the entire point of the label”

“but by claiming to have alters you’re just roleplaying didosdd!”

“but you agree that didosdd is more than just alter disorder, right? if you can have hallucinations or depression by itself, as a symptom of a disorder or even as a struggle alone, who’s to say you cannot have alters by themself? that’s even barring the hundreds of other ways people claim to have headmates, which are not things that you have authority on if it is real or not since you don’t live in their brain”

“…YOU’RE FAKING!”

“i am diagnosed with did, i just do more critical thinking than you do”

“YOU’RE STILL FAKING FOR BEING PROENDO LFMEBFKWJFNWKJSJAK”

like it’s tiring seeing all of these people listen to whatever lie gets told to them and then base their entire personalities off hating some group or other just because the internet told them to. and anything less than hatred is somehow unacceptable as well

YEAH exactly!! like... its kind of just gatekeeping the term "system" at this point, because the DSM-5 actually acknowledges cultural practices that cause identity alteration in the diagnostic criteria of DID. there is a specific note saying it isnt a cultural practice lol

gonna get a bit syscourse-y here, but... recently noticed kind of a weird hypocrisy in anti-endo arguments and wanted to point it out to see if others agree

for extra context, i have DID and im pro-endo id say?? my mindset is basically just "i dont get it personally, but live ur life dude(s), its not my business and im not gonna tell u what u are / arent" because like. i find it super hard to believe that DID and OSDD-1 are the ONLY possible causes for systems LOL... also i will be using the terms endo / endogenic as umbrella terms for all plurality outside of DID / OSDD-1 throughout this post

ANYWAYS THOUGHH... most harshly anti-endo spaces (or at least those that are pro-recovery) really emphasise that DID and OSDD-1 are more than just "alter disorders", which i absolutely agree with! DID and OSDD-1 are both complex dissociative disorders that include identity alteration (alters) as a SYMPTOM, but the disorders both fundamentally involve dissociation and impairment in daily life to some extent

BUT... then they are also so quick to say that endos MUST have DID / OSDD-1 if they have alters... but what about all the other symptoms? most endos i have met do not experience dissociation or other DID / OSDD-1 symptoms. claiming someone MUST have DID / OSDD-1 because they have alters would kind of be reducing the disorders down to just "alter disorders", right?

plus, it seems to be entirely ignoring the fact that you can have a symptom of a disorder without having the disorder / being disordered... lets use ADHD as an example here since its the first thing to come to mind LOL, someone can have a short attention span or be distracted easily without inherently having ADHD. it would depend on the presence of other symptoms as well as degree of life impairment. this logic also applies to any other disorder ever... so why dont we apply the same logic to DID / OSDD-1?

most endos i see dont claim DID / OSDD-1, and the ones that do are generally mixed origins. if we apply the logic that symptom ≠ disorder and that DID / OSDD-1 are more than just "alter disorders", why would someone not be able to have alters without a dissociative disorder?

IDK i hope this makes sense. feel free to reblog with any comments or anything i want to see others opinionz

We unfollowed them after they started calling another system on TikTok “cringe.” They’ve just gotten too messy so we wont be rewarding them with our attention anymore.

I’m so tired of seeing Aspen’s little fan base harassing people. You can be anti endo and NOT HARASS PEOPLE:

It’s not something funny to do at all.

And the fucking paranoia jokes. It’s fucked up. I do not understand why people support Aspen.

I get they use “I’m schizophrenic” as an excuse to use those “jokes” but they’re wrong to do and I would think that someone who deals with hallucinations and delusions from schizophrenia would understand the damage those jokes do.

If you agree with Aspen or just think what they do is absolutely hilarious and let them do whatever they want or support them, please do not interact with me.

I get that not every supporter will be bad, but I don’t want anything dealing with Aspen here. I’ve seen a joke from them that’s caused me distress and it’s upsetting to see that no one seems to hold Aspen accountable and just lets them do whatever.

Sure, I might be bashed, but at the same time, I refuse to support or interact with someone or a fan base that actively supports behavior like this.

👑

at this point im against any form of non-disorder plurality. does it exist? fuckin hell if i know. but being "plural" and having did/osdd is so intrinsically linked that the two cannot be separated. there are people who will have did/osdd and not realize, thinking its just "oh im just a non-disordered plural :)" and that's fuckin dangerous. people not getting treated for their disorders is dangerous and acting like its "fine" is pushing anti-recovery rhetoric. did/osdd is an ESPECIALLY dangerous disorder to not seek therapy for. with a 70% suicide rate and intense symptoms stemming from trauma it's something that NEEDS to be diagnosed. we NEED to be helped. we NEED therapy. and no this isn't me saying we need to reach final fusion, it's me saying we need to be functional and be able to recover with our disorder.

"oh but this harms non-disordered plurals !!!" how? how does it? give me one reason how it does. and either way i would rather the DISORDERED. the DISABLED. people be safe. yes. i put the safety of disordered people who have a high suicide risk higher than the safety of a 14 year old on the internet with a non-disordered "monsengenic" system or whatever the hell yall wanna call it. so yes. we should medicalize plurality because the safety of the mentally ill people comes first. if you disagree with that, then hate to break it to you but you're ableist/sanist.

I've experienced similar things. Every endo that has responded to me, on this blog and on other platforms, has brought up the "there's little to no research on this disorder so there's no way to know" argument. Yeah, no shit. That's why I don't believe that you're real. There's no evidence to say you are real. No study has been done yet on endos. You can't prove anything.

Endos and supporters use the little research argument to prove that they are real. Babe, you aren't making a point.

It's like saying magic is real because no one has documented it yet. Sounds dumb, yeah?

I do not care. Endogenic systems aren't real systems. They are taking our real, debilitating experiences, and using them for pitty and internet points.

I have been told to kill myself

I have been told I'm lucky to have trauma

I've been told I am lucky to be so fucked up

I've been told I'm lucky to have such severe PTSD

All from endogenics.

I will not consider them real systems until I am given a legitimate, scientific study, proving me wrong.

That is my opinion. If that makes you mad, block me.

My disorder will not be used to gain sympathy.

- Based on my last post

Well, I guess if endos also support transabled then if we say they're the same thing it doesn't affect them. Touche.

Woah, you want trauma survivors to suffer and think we're monsters? You're so cool, man.

Sarcasm, obviously.

Might aswell make an intro post since the old host is gone.

Hi, I’m Sunny. I use nya/nyas, he/him, meow/meows, mew/mews, purr/purrs and a bunch of other cat related neos. I’m a prosecutor, perpetrator, avenger and whatever other thing can describe me being fucking PISSED at what people did to us, and now i hurt people soooo.. If you dont like me, cool, i don’t fucking care. im mean. ill be making my own blog soon. oh but im nice to pro-endos and pro-tulpas! so hehe. other than that im mean to sysmeds and i want them to suffer. so yeah thats me, will be making a new blog of my own soon sooo if you like me then feel free to check it out when its done

All traumagenic and disordered systems deserve more credit. You endos don't deserve shit.

You also think the term "sysmed" is fitting. Plurality isn't inherently medical, but only because of spirituality. Being a system is medical. It's a disorder caused by dissociation which is caused by trauma. Guess what? I'm also trans and have been harassed by transmeds, and it's not the same. Don't compare being trans, a thing anyone can experience, to people with trauma that happened before we had a fully developed fucking brain. Our trauma isn't comparable to gender, a fucking social construct that isn't real. Of course being trans isn't medical, because gender isn't technically real. Trauma and being a system isn't a social construct. We were abused.

Get your head out of your ass. 🥰

Friendly reminder that DID/OSDD does not equal sysmed. There are so many amazing DID and OSDD systems out there that are wonderful and supportive of all origins and they deserve more credit!!!

No one's against plurality because of religion/spiritual beliefs. I'm not against that, but that's not what the majority of "endogenics" are. Endos hide behind the fact that spirituality can play a role in plurality to call anti-endos racist/anti-religion, even if they aren't part of that spiritual practice. The problem anti-endos are talking about are people who say they're systems completely without trauma or anything else. They say they have chosen to be a system because of stress, neurodivergency, literally anything. That is not fucking possible. Plurality that forms without spiritual attachment can only be caused by trauma that happened before the age of seven. STFU and learn what we're talking about.

This isn't specifically targeted at the original poster or anon, but it's an important point I had to make.

Wanted to get ur perspective on this but, I think the reason why so many anti-endos are in fact anti endogenic bc they view being a system as being purely a medical diagnosis. So if ur looking at a spiritual system (like me for example uwu) through the lenses of what a medical system should look like then ofc that spiritual system isn't gonna appear valid. And yet when other systems who aren't medical systems say "hey, we only appear invalid to you bc ur viewing us through the wrong lenses, switch ur gaze homie" they absolutely REFUSE to view systems any other way bc their entire perception of systems is purely medical and they refuse the idea of systems existing in any other form bc they have such a tight grasp on this one perspective.

Definitely!

And I think some of this comes down to semantics, equating "system" with DID/OSDD while most of the plural community uses it as a catch-all term for all plural systems, and the actual psychologists have a completely different definition. It's not even a scientific disagreement but one over the definition of a word.

Although, I will remind people that when it is a scientific disagreement, anti-endos don't have any ground to stand on. Regarding spiritual systems specifically, there have been many studies on spiritual mediums and others experiencing possession that have shown different brain activity compared to people simply imagining. Scientists can't prove whether this is actually spiritual or just psychological, but the phenomenon is recognized as real in psychological communities in the way that it's not just people faking or pretending they have these experiences. Nor are these experiences considered mental illnesses or disorders, and they have little to no connection to trauma.

It's always good to remember that spiritual systems were the first types of plurals recognized by society.

I also want to add that being unable to view systems through different lenses can have a lot of harmful repercussions even among OSDD and DID systems. Plurality is a broad spectrum that encompasses a lot of different phenomena. The same way an OSDD system might have difficulty empathizing with a spiritual system, they might also have that same trouble with one that functions in ways that are different from their own. For example, a system who has no internal communication might disbelieve experiences of those who do. Or one with few headmates might not believe experiences of systems with hundreds of headmates. The same could be said of complex inner worlds or any number of other experiences.

Just a reminder to everyone that everybody experiences plurality in their own way, and that just because someone's experiences are different from your own doesn't mean they weren't actually experienced.

If you make a syscourse post and then say endos / pro endos dni, YOU ARE MAKING AN ECHO CHAMBER.

Discourse is discussion. By refusing to listen to anyone from the other side, by refusing to change your views, by refusing to understand that you could possibly be wrong, you are officially just sitting in an echo chamber. At that point, everything you’re saying could be misinformation and nobody would correct you.

If you can’t handle people with opposing views interacting with you, don’t participate in syscourse. That’s literally the entire point.

Learn to grow. Maybe admit you’re wrong sometimes. It’s not hard.

This was also my experience. It’s both comforting and depressing to know I wasn’t the only one who went through this.

I'm tired of this narrative that it's just the endogenics or it's just the anti-endos being ableist because it is typically the vocal minorities in BOTH groups who are doing this behavior. I'm going to be talking about my experiences with how both sides hurt me here but this isn't me throwing a pity party or anything just want to draw attention to things.

Starting out in the system community as a trauma formed system I of course initially interacted with CDD spaces which of course led me to interact with a decent number of anti-endos. Unfortunately when I first started discussing my experiences with the disorder which 100% do not fit into the anti-endo box of how a CDD system is supposed to experience their system I immediately got dubbed as an endogenic and got pushed out of CDD spaces over and over.

I was repeatedly the excuse anti-endos would use to say endogenics were invading their spaces and using their terms. They repeatedly acted as if they were better than me because they had trauma because despite the fact that I repeatedly discussed having childhood trauma because they dubbed me as endogenic I therefore could not have experienced any trauma in my life and was therefore lesser than them. I was just that faker destroying the community because they never once sought to understand the trauma basis for my odd presentations.

Of course not being accepted by other CDD systems in the anti-endo community of course I felt more comfortable with the pro-endo community who were accepting of my trauma and my system experiences. The one main thing they did though... was convince me due to how my symptoms presented I couldn't be experiencing distress/disfunction(which I was) because of the symptoms of the disorder and was therefore a non-disordered system. This held me back from seeking care for the disorder for multiple years.

If you are following along you might notice BOTH sides repeatedly told me I did not need treatment for my experiences. Both sides tried to convince me I was healthy and thriving while I was dealing with severe trauma responses that were subtlety destroying my life.

And the people who helped. The people who recognized how my presentation of the disorder was a valid but commonly overlooked one because of how high functioning I present outwardly with the symptoms. Were people who acknowledge the ableism in both sides. Ones that are willing to call it out in both sides. Those are the people in syscourse who weren't ableist towards me.

And this isn't to say everyone on both sides is a monster but to say what both sides promote as what is and isn't a CDD experience ends up being used for ableism by members of that respective side. Both sides struggle to define CDD systems in a way that ACTUALLY defines ALL CDD systems. And there are always going to be CDD systems who are victims of ableism from both sides of syscourse because of it.

So when we were talking about mixed origin systems the other day with our friends we realized(at least for us) we kind of treat origin labels similarly to role labels. They are terms many of which are community based that help organize alters to better understand them. To know which types of situations are most likely to effect them or which they are most equipped to deal with. (We will be using alters in this for ease but many of our alters that don't identify as trauma formed tend also not to use the term preferring headmates. Not relevant to this post but I know some will care so thought I'd add it.)

To us identifying with an origin other than trauma does NOT mean that trauma couldn't have played a role in how the alter was formed. Most of our alters that don't put themselves in the trauma formed category still understand which parts of our trauma most likely played a part in their formation even if they don't feel connected to it at all. For example our neurogenic headmates... obviously our experiences with our disorders is and was traumatic on so many days but they see themselves as closer connected to the symptoms of our disorders than to our trauma so it's still beneficial for us to have that separation to better understand the different experiences both types of alters have and how they will interact with different situations.

We also literally have a origin folder labeled syscourse for those whose formation was directly related to distress we experienced in any way connected to syscourse. Because it helps us when we are triggered and making quick decisions to have alters categorized by what parts of our experience they are most connected to so we know who is most likely to be triggered and who is most likely to help.

It can also be more beneficial than roles are because it can help us categorized both the ones that help and hurt together to make things easier. An alter that's an autism symptom holder and will obviously make symptoms worse and an alter that formed to be an autistic mask can be found right next to each other so on days when we are struggling with autism we can go to the neurogenic folder and go through who we are going to try to prevent from fronting and who we are going to try to get to front all in one place. Because going through all 88 profiles and trying to remember who is who when in distress is a freaking impossible task and having alters split by origin labels helps us with this so much. It wouldn't be worth it to label alters in this way if it didn't help us significantly.

You have more in common than you think. After all, we're all here, aren't we?

Syscourse often creates lines. Endogenic VS Traumagenic. Anti-endo VS Pro-endo. Disordered VS Non-disordered.

But each of these binaries is a spectrum, just as all things are. There's middle grounds, and even in terms of these binary ideas, they are also spectrums in of themselves.

We often push others away due to these binaries, and often feel swells of anger about these binaries. Today, I want to challenge everyone to step back and find the commonalities in what others say.

Remember: there's someone real on the other side of those words. They're not just a cruel comment -- they're a person.

Even as someone who is pro-endogenic, I think it is important to say that the research done on DID, OSDD, and other trauma-based dissociative conditions is still valuable and important, even if you’re not a traumagenic system.

I’m not saying you need to be an expert or spend several hours reading so many books and peer-reviewed papers that you might as well have a PhD. I’m saying that having a basic grasp of concepts like C-PTSD, structural dissociation, and the core clinical models of trauma-based plurality will help you become a better ally to traumagenic systems, mixed-origin systems (like me), and traumatized endogenic systems.

I’ve noticed that some endogenic spaces have a tendency to either dismiss research on traumagenic systems as irrelevant or criticize it for not including endogenic experiences. But here’s the thing… that doesn’t mean the existing research is wrong. It’s just focused on a different population of people whose system formed because of trauma.

Research doesn’t extensively talk about endogenic or mixed-origin systems because those aren’t typically studied in a clinical (i.e., pathological) context. That doesn’t make our experiences less valid. It just means we exist outside the current research. And that’s okay. But it is still good to understand where traumagenic systems are coming from because not all of us are without trauma, and we need you as an ally. Especially if we want mutual respect and solidarity within plural spaces.

I think about this a lot because if endogenic spaces were a lot more like this a few years ago, I would’ve gotten support and found community a lot sooner. It has gotten a lot better since the last time I’ve been in plural spaces, but there is still more room to grow.

Ough wait a second....you're..."photogenic"? You need trauma to be a system, dumbass.

pro endos id like to see u defend this..